The Bible: Symbolic or Literal?

[Wiccan_Child]

No, they don't. Prove your assertion.

Ask her yourself, if you're so interested.

 

[artybloke]

It's probably unlikely that anyone takes anything absolutely literally; but it's also quite likely that many people wouldn't recognise a reading as "symbolic" or "non-literal", even if it's pointed out to them. All language, after all, is symbolic.

 

[KCDAD]

Seriously... go talk to Floatingaxe, shes around here somewhere... she really DOES believe every word of the Bible is literally true... even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff

Ask her yourself, if you're so interested.

I am reading a couple of threads she is participating in and do not see the "literal" fanatic you are are portraying.

You made the assertion... now prove it.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It's probably unlikely that anyone takes anything absolutely literally; but it's also quite likely that many people wouldn't recognise a reading as "symbolic" or "non-literal", even if it's pointed out to them. All language, after all, is symbolic.

Try talking ti Floating axe... in another thread she has just told me that morality is NOT an abstract concept...

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I am reading a couple of threads she is participating in and do not see the "literal" fanatic you are are portraying.

You made the assertion... now prove it.

look harder.

 

[KCDAD]

look harder.

Nice proof... that'll convince me

 

[KCDAD]

Try talking ti Floating axe... in another thread she has just told me that morality is NOT an abstract concept...

You are saying morality is an abstract concept?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You are saying morality is an abstract concept?

um... yes... given that its something that you can't discover with the 5 senses, that makes it an abstraction

 

[KCDAD]

um... yes... given that its something that you can't discover with the 5 senses, that makes it an abstraction

ab·stract
1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical. See Synonyms at theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.

I prefer the 5th definition. I take it you are leaning towards the first.

When I talk about abstract morality, I use it as Lawrence Kohlberg does in his discussions of levels of moral development. The idea or furthest advanced being post-conventional morality which includes abstract ideas of right and wrong... absolutes; impersonal ideals.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

ab·stract
1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical. See Synonyms at theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.

I prefer the 5th definition. I take it you are leaning towards the first.

When I talk about abstract morality, I use it as Lawrence Kohlberg does in his discussions of levels of moral development. The idea or furthest advanced being post-conventional morality which includes abstract ideas of right and wrong... absolutes; impersonal ideals.

OK... good... um... I'm not sure if or why we are arguing about this, we both seem to agree that morality is an abstract concept, and 'm telling you that there are people here who call morality concrete, because it comes from God and is as featured in the inerrant, literally correct Bible

 

[artybloke]

ab·stract
1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical. See Synonyms at theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.

I prefer the 5th definition. I take it you are leaning towards the first.

When I talk about abstract morality, I use it as Lawrence Kohlberg does in his discussions of levels of moral development. The idea or furthest advanced being post-conventional morality which includes abstract ideas of right and wrong... absolutes; impersonal ideals.

In all those cases, (especially the first) God is also an abstract concept.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

ab·stract
1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical. See Synonyms at theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.

In all those cases, (especially the first) God is also an abstract concept.

I would say only the 3rd applies. At least around here "God" generally means the Christian God, a specific instance of the more abstract concept of supernatural beings usually denoted by "gods".

Your opinion is, apparently, that he doesn't exist, but even if he didn't the first really wouldn't fit.

 

[KCDAD]

OK... good... um... I'm not sure if or why we are arguing about this, we both seem to agree that morality is an abstract concept, and 'm telling you that there are people here who call morality concrete, because it comes from God and is as featured in the inerrant, literally correct Bible

Good job. You saw exactly what you wanted to see, didn't you?

Morality is concrete.. there is an absolute, universal, abstract morality.

 

[KCDAD]

I would say only the 3rd applies. At least around here "God" generally means the Christian God, a specific instance of the more abstract concept of supernatural beings usually denoted by "gods".

Your opinion is, apparently, that he doesn't exist, but even if he didn't the first really wouldn't fit.

What does "the Christian God" mean? You mean "your God". This all of course only means your mental image of God.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I am reading a couple of threads she is participating in and do not see the "literal" fanatic you are are portraying.

You made the assertion... now prove it.

KCDAD, you made the assertion that no literalists exist, and asked me to prove otherwise. Ignoring the flaw, I got this testimony from a Christian:

While there may be minor errors like spellings of names, numbers (some quantities are mis-recorded--not affecting meaning) etc, everything is absolutely truth. As God is the inspirer of the message, He cannot or will not allow His message to be diluted, or polluted. it's HIS message to each one of us.

I.e., this Christian is a literalist. Every jot and tittle.

To recap (because I had forgotten before I looked back), we were discussing why I disprove the literalist stance when I get the chance (As I have said on countless occasions, my beef is the with literalists. If you do not interprit everything literally, then fine. But I am arguing against literalism. Nothing more, nothing less.)

 

[KCDAD]

KCDAD, you made the assertion that no literalists exist, and asked me to prove otherwise. Ignoring the flaw, I got this testimony from a Christian:

While there may be minor errors like spellings of names, numbers (some quantities are mis-recorded--not affecting meaning) etc, everything is absolutely truth. As God is the inspirer of the message, He cannot or will not allow His message to be diluted, or polluted. it's HIS message to each one of us.

I.e., this Christian is a literalist. Every jot and tittle.

To recap (because I had forgotten before I looked back), we were discussing why I disprove the literalist stance when I get the chance (As I have said on countless occasions, my beef is the with literalists. If you do not interprit everything literally, then fine. But I am arguing against literalism. Nothing more, nothing less.)

Truth... there's the rub, eh? Is truth just facts? Is there truth in fiction?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Truth... there's the rub, eh? Is truth just facts? Is there truth in fiction?

I'm not sure I follow you. A statment is truth if it is true: the two terms are synonymous. To call the Bible 'truth' is to call it 'true'.

Part of the PM I sent:
I have a query: do you consider the Bible to be entirely, literally true? Every jot and tittle, as it were.

The reply:

While there may be minor errors like spellings of names, numbers (some quantities are mis-recorded--not affecting meaning) etc, everything is absolutely truth. As God is the inspirer of the message, He cannot or will not allow His message to be diluted, or polluted. it's HIS message to each one of us.

That I quantified what I meant by 'truth' belies their need to quantify it again. My apologies for any confusion, but they are indeed a literalist: everything is absolutely truth.

 

[KCDAD]

I'm not sure I follow you. A statment is truth if it is true: the two terms are synonymous. To call the Bible 'truth' is to call it 'true'.

Part of the PM I sent:
I have a query: do you consider the Bible to be entirely, literally true? Every jot and tittle, as it were.

The reply:

While there may be minor errors like spellings of names, numbers (some quantities are mis-recorded--not affecting meaning) etc, everything is absolutely truth. As God is the inspirer of the message, He cannot or will not allow His message to be diluted, or polluted. it's HIS message to each one of us.

That I quantified what I meant by 'truth' belies their need to quantify it again. My apologies for any confusion, but they are indeed a literalist: everything is absolutely truth.

I am in the process of evaluating this assertion of yours. I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I am in the process of evaluating this assertion of yours. I will let you know how it turns out.

I'm not sure what there is to evaluate, but take your time.

 

[david_x]

Yes. Your words appear contradictory, or at least misleading, so I require a concise and accurate description.

But i explained these "contradictory" items.

Irrelevant. Jesus stated that faith moves mountains, and so faith must move mountains, if literalism is true.

I could kill someone, does that mean I must?

I don't believe we are discussing morality

You seem to think that everest has some importence in morality. Like people wouln't be saved because it is there.