Attention Archaeologist!

[philadiddle]

This thread is not meant to attack you. I simply want some answers to some simple questions. I hope you will clear some things up for me so that I can understand your point of view a little better.

Question 1:
In Mark 4:31 Jesus says "It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seed you plant in the ground." Please read it in context so that you know I'm not taking verses out of context. We know that the mustard seed is not the smallest seed that we plant in the ground. My question is, was Jesus lying? I assume the answer must be "no", since Jesus never lied, but I'll need you to explain how that's not lying when it's written very specifically.

Question 2:
Please quote bible verses that say the earth is a sphere, and/or that it revolves around the sun. If you can't find any please explain why you can't. Also explain why you think the earth is a sphere and why you think it revolves around the sun, if the Bible doesn't say it.

 

[archaeologist]

I assume the answer must be "no", since Jesus never lied, but I'll need you to explain how that's not lying when it's written very specifically.

if you assumed the answer, why are you asking me then?

i have checked different translations to see how they wrote andit woul dbe easy to pick the easiest one but i would need to research a bit. here is a link for you to read:

http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/mustard.htm

Question 2:

this is not a question.

 

[Deamiter]

Oooh, I have a couple questions.

1. What the heck is "secular science?"

2. Are there any Bible verses that say the earth is a sphere, and/or that it revolves around the sun? If you can't find any why not? Also why do you think the earth is a sphere and why do you think it revolves around the sun, if the Bible doesn't say it?

 

[theFijian]

I would like an answer to my question, and by answer I do not mean another question in reply. This simply requires a yes/no/don't know answer. If "don't know" then I would appreciate an explanation as to why you don't know. The question is as follows:

How does the number of kinds/species alive today compare with the number alive at the time of Noah's flood? Is there a greater number of kinds/species alive today, is there fewer, or is that number of kinds/species the same?

 

[archaeologist]

2. Are there any Bible verses that say the earth is a sphere,

though i am sure you will nitpick this one--- isaiah 40:22

that it revolves around the sun

there are too many verses with the word earth in it so it will take awhile to check.

How does the number of kinds/species alive today compare with the number alive at the time of Noah's flood? Is there a greater number of kinds/species alive today, is there fewer, or is that number of kinds/species the same?

i answered this in another thread...we are not told nor was i there, the ark was big enoughto hold all the animals that God wanted on the ark along with the food and the people.

the number kinds or species is not germane to the story.

 

[theFijian]

i answered this in another thread...we are not told nor was i there, the ark was big enoughto hold all the animals that God wanted on the ark along with the food and the people.

I'll take this as a "don't know"

the number kinds or species is not germane to the story.

That's right, it's not germane to the story of Noah's flood. the number of species or kinds is germane however when you start proclaiming that there is no such thing as microevolution (and in doing so categorise your fellow Creationists as hypocrites). We are not told how many different kinds/species boarded the Ark but we do know that there are too many species/kinds today to have all fitted on the Ark therefore there must have been fewer species/kinds at the time of Noah's flood, ergo microevolution happens.

 

[archaeologist]

ergo microevolution happens.

there is no micro-evolution. it never existed.

 

[theFijian]

Debate 101 archie-style: In the face of an irrefutable argument just repeat the assertion as though that somehow is a valid substitute for facts and any kind of reasoning.

I think all see, both TE and Creationist alike, how vacuous your arguments are archie.

 

[Jase]

there is no micro-evolution. it never existed.

I think you're one of the first creationists i've ever heard deny adaptation. Care to enlighten us as to how antibiotics work Archie?

 

[Deamiter]

I have another question:

Why are my questions being ignored?

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

The Bible does talk about the earth being a circle and that God sits on the circle of the earth. But I haven't found a scripture where the earth revolves around the sun.

Isaiah 40:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

Some Creationists suggest that God stretched out the heavens explaining why we have millions of light years. Evolutionists have their view of course also.

 

[PaladinValer]

The Earth is an oblate spheroid, not a circle. The former is 3-D; the latter is 2-D.

A great example is the shape of Arda (Creation) in Tolkien's Legendarium. It is circular in shape until the dawn of the Third Age of the Sun, which is when Arda is finally made spheroid. Proof is found in the fact that, in order to forever prevent Men from sailing West into Aman, the Vanir completely separated Aman from the rest of Arda. Men's ships trying to sail west only found "New Shores" and never the Undying Lands. Only the elves could find Aman, because it was a part of their nature and grace to find it, and so they could sail the Straight Path to Aman.

There is no place in the Bible where it calls the Earth spheroid. Instead, taken literally, the Bible depict a flat, circular Earth that is always stationary and the stars, planets, our moon, and even the sun revolve around it, with heaven literally being beyond the stars and sheol (the abode of the dead) literally being underneath the earth, with a vast underground ocean between sheol and the surface of the Earth. The sky is literally supported by four pillars too, according to a literal take.

 

[gluadys]

The Bible does talk about the earth being a circle and that God sits on the circle of the earth. But I haven't found a scripture where the earth revolves around the sun.

Isaiah 40:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

Some Creationists suggest that God stretched out the heavens explaining why we have millions of light years. Evolutionists have their view of course also.

Of course, that ignores the rest of the verse.

Isaiah says God stretched out the heavens as a curtain and as a tent to dwell in.

This makes perfect sense along with the first part. The whole is an image of the earth as a flat circle with a circular tent stretched over it (which also implies that the heaven is made of a solid, physical material like a tent, not billions of light-years of empty space).

To us, this is only an image. To Isaiah and his contemporaries it was an image that was a pretty accurate description of the physical arrangements of heaven and earth.

I don't know why it is so difficult to accept that they spoke according to the knowledge of their age without alleging that that makes God a liar.

Why should God tie his revelation to the scientific knowledge of any particular age-- including ours?

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

oh well, so maybe they did have to use their own logic back then. hmm makes some sort of sense.

 

[PaladinValer]

"Own logic"?

Logic is something that is constant; it cannot change because it is never relative.

P->Q
P
Therefore Q This will always be truth.

The Bible when literally read shows a flat, circular Earth. Science teaches that the Earth is an oblate sphereoid.
The nature of the Earth being an oblate spheroid is contradictory to the nature of the Earth being flat and circular.
It is proven that the Earth is an oblate spheroid
Therefore, the Bible, if read literally about this subject, is wrong.


P->Q (Premise)
R->S (Premise)
S=~Q (Equivalence)
S (Premise)
~P (Modus Tollens)

 

[metherion]

Now, this particular post only covers the threads "Is YEC viable without the Bible" and "darwin's beliefs."
I only took questions that had their own posts or came up repeatedly several times and were unanswered.


Did the creation days go from morning to morning or evening to evening?
(first post: http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37236533&postcount=50)

Where is your evidence the vast majority if the church before the time of Copernicus understood heliocentrism and knew not to interpret the geocentric passage literally?
(first post: http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37349019&postcount=84)

What was the promised seed that was going to bruise the serpent's head? http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37363883&postcount=91

Germs.
Quote:
obviously germs are a result of the fall of man and are something real, evolution is not real nor exists.
Really.
1. Scripture? Or did they (gasp) EVOLVE? Or is there an unmentioned second creation in the Bible? How did they get there if they were never created in the first place? And how did the Fall result in them? What about the list of what the Fall did presented by God in Genesis 3?
2. What about symbiotes? Such as the bacteria in the human gut that help digestion, the ones in termites that do the same for the termites, and various other cases where germs are necessary for animals to survive but make them sick if they get in the wrong areas of the body?
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36911642&postcount=39

but a better statement of the question is here:

If germs were not around at the beginning, but were a result of the Fall, how does that fit with the Earth being unchangable at the end of Creation as you say is shown by Gen 1:31-2:1?

So why does God allow secular non-believing doctors and nurses to heal people when he's quite capable of doing it himself?

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37206635&postcount=149


And Archie DID give the definition of secular science in the thread Darwin's beliefs, and one other which I'm not sure of.
I'll get the link to the post later today, right now I've gotta go.

Metherion

 

[gluadys]

oh well, so maybe they did have to use their own logic back then. hmm makes some sort of sense.

Absolutely! And given the information they had, there was nothing wrong with their logic. No one had sailed around the world yet. No telescope had examined the planets yet. No distant galaxies had been discovered yet.

As Newton once said, we see differently because we stand on the shoulders of giants. The Greeks who first gave reasons for believing the earth is spherical, Copernicus and Galileo who provided the logic and then the evidence that the earth orbits the sun, and later scientists who discovered distant galaxies and the expansion of the universe---which led to discovering its beginning as well.

Yet through it all, the witness of scripture, that the heavens declare the glory of God, has never failed.

We don't need to demand of God that he tell Isaiah and the Psalmists all we know about the universe long before later generations discovered it. They already knew what was important and expressed it in ways that made sense to them. And what they knew was enough to glorify God and all we have added to what they knew doesn't change that a bit.

 

[KEPLER]

there is no micro-evolution. it never existed.

there is no archaeologist. he never existed.

 

[KEPLER]

I think you're one of the first creationists i've ever heard deny adaptation. Care to enlighten us as to how antibiotics work Archie?

Gelatin capsules filled with Magic Pixie Dust[FONT=&quot]™.[/FONT]

 

[FranciscanJ]

there is no micro-evolution. it never existed.

Is this the sort of stuff Archie's been saying all this time? I'm not trying to be rude to a fellow believer but...Unbelievable!

Archie, even when I was a yec I never questioned microevolution. None of the best yec resources doubt it either as far as I know.

So this makes me think 1 of 3 possibilities:

1) You really should study a bit before arguing here any further.

or

2) You are a bit...well, something's not clicking. Not meant as a put-down.

or

3) Someone is playing a prank on all of us.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with 1. But I must admit I have my doubts.