What would option 3 look like

[dignitized]

Wow. Then, genuinely, I'm astonished. I've never once been to a Christian school where the staff didn't reflect that. To be honest, I think that's incredibly remiss of them.

Why? They don't have to teach religion to teach gym - or Math - or Reading . . . .

 

[sparklecat]

Their *reason* may vary, be it poor treatement by other Christians, re-analysis of the "evidence", etc, but rejecting Christianity boils down to rejecting Christ.

Well... I disagree. If you want to chat about it, make a thread in GA and PM me a link?

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Why? They don't have to teach religion to teach gym - or Math - or Reading . . . .

No, they have to affirm and support the goals of the school, which is to educate and raise children within a Christian environment.

They need certain knowledge and beliefs that come with being a Christian.

 

[RedTulipMom]

OOPS..ignore this..lol..wrong thread

 

[dignitized]

No, they have to affirm and support the goals of the school, which is to educate and raise children within a Christian environment.

They need certain knowledge and beliefs that come with being a Christian.

People can hold Christian values without being a Christian.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

People can hold Christian values without being a Christian.

I disagree. People can, of course, be - and are - moral without being Christian, but Christian values encompasses accepting the gift of Grace, and understanding you're a child of the Most High. Christian values includes knowing that all of this is for Him, and that this world isn't our home. Non-Christians find that way of thinking nuts. We differ fundamentally.

 

[GenemZ]

People can hold Christian values without being a Christian.

But they can only live in the concept. Not the life.

Christian 'values' are not commands to simply follow for a Christian.

The values (mandates) are given to us to reveal if more transformation is still needed, if you do not find yourself automatically living as they describe.

Galatians 5:18 (New International Version)
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law."
​

"Values" that a society willingly accepts are laws that are naturally pleasing to men's sensibilities.

In contrast, the mandates to Christians may be pleasing as well. But, God will throw tests at us to see if we are simply following them in the energy of the flesh (as the world does with its values) or, if we are being as we should be supernaturally, by grace.

James 1:2-4 (New International Version)
"Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything."


​

The world simply follows and conforms to certain values because it produces pleasing results when things are going well. Have a disaster hit? And, some of these same conformists turn into selfish animals. Revealing the true nature of man without God's power.

1 Peter 1:6-7 (New International Version)
"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.

These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed."
​

Our faith needs to be proven to be genuine. Not simply by an obedience carried out in the energy of the flesh like the world does, in conforming (acting) to what is called "good."

People can hold Christian values without being a Christian.

Only if they all get tested in the same way Christians do, can that be said to be true.

That is why so many Christians can seem wacky to the world. For the world is not subject to the same testings that Christians receive from God.

When the world wants to claim equality with mature believer? Then they try and legislate that there be no testings to see if they are equal.
Its a game of hypocrisy. They want their cake and eat it too.

Christianity as it should be can not be fulfilled without walking in the power of Grace. Many Christians walk after their flesh.

The world can conform to an outward appearance as being equals, to a point. But, they are not. Only a Spirit filled Christian who is facing his trials can know what I speak of.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[Irenaeus]

I advocate, and will continue to advocate, a return to the Nicene Creed as the standard of orthodoxy and the traditional Christian morality as shared by our forefathers for thousands of years as the best way to be the light to the world that CF yearns to be.

Anything less than that is merely eirenism under another name.

 

[sc4s2cg]

Let's get back on topic please.

G-d bless,
sc

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Anything less than that is merely eirenism under another name.

I don't know what er... eirr... eirenism is under that name.

 

[Debi1967]

This attitude of "peace at all costs" with heretics and schismatics, regardless of the points of doctrine which separate us, was condemned by Pope Pius XII in 1950 under the name of eirenism.
These advocate an "eirenism" according to which, by setting aside the questions which divide men, they aim not only at joining forces to repel the attacks of atheism, but also at reconciling things opposed to one another in the field of dogma (Humani Generis, no. 11).


11. Another danger is perceived which is all the more serious because it is more concealed beneath the mask of virtue. There are many who, deploring disagreement among men and intellectual confusion, through an imprudent zeal for souls, are urged by a great and ardent desire to do away with the barrier that divides good and honest men; these advocate an "eirenism" according to which, by setting aside the questions which divide men, they aim not only at joining forces to repel the attacks of atheism, but also at reconciling things opposed to one another in the field of dogma. And as in former times some questioned whether the traditional apologetics of the Church did not constitute an obstacle rather than a help to the winning of souls for Christ, so today some are presumptive enough to question seriously whether theology and theological methods, such as with the approval of ecclesiastical authority are found in our schools, should not only be perfected, but also completely reformed, in order to promote the more efficacious propagation of the kingdom of Christ everywhere throughout the world among men of every culture and religious opinion.

 

[GenemZ]

This attitude of "peace at all costs" with heretics and schismatics, regardless of the points of doctrine which separate us, was condemned by Pope Pius XII in 1950 under the name of eirenism.
These advocate an "eirenism" according to which, by setting aside the questions which divide men, they aim not only at joining forces to repel the attacks of atheism, but also at reconciling things opposed to one another in the field of dogma (Humani Generis, no. 11).


11. Another danger is perceived which is all the more serious because it is more concealed beneath the mask of virtue. There are many who, deploring disagreement among men and intellectual confusion, through an imprudent zeal for souls, are urged by a great and ardent desire to do away with the barrier that divides good and honest men; these advocate an "eirenism" according to which, by setting aside the questions which divide men, they aim not only at joining forces to repel the attacks of atheism, but also at reconciling things opposed to one another in the field of dogma. And as in former times some questioned whether the traditional apologetics of the Church did not constitute an obstacle rather than a help to the winning of souls for Christ, so today some are presumptive enough to question seriously whether theology and theological methods, such as with the approval of ecclesiastical authority are found in our schools, should not only be perfected, but also completely reformed, in order to promote the more efficacious propagation of the kingdom of Christ everywhere throughout the world among men of every culture and religious opinion.

Interesting.... If "eirenism" were adhered to?

Many without Christ could easily think they do not need salvation.

Galatians 1:10 (New International Version)
"Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ."
​

Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[Debi1967]

Interesting.... If "eirenism" were adhered to?

Many without Christ could easily think they do not need salvation.

​

Grace and truth, GeneZ

this is why my Brother answered in this Fashion

I advocate, and will continue to advocate, a return to the Nicene Creed as the standard of orthodoxy and the traditional Christian morality as shared by our forefathers for thousands of years as the best way to be the light to the world that CF yearns to be.

Anything less than that is merely eirenism under another name.

 

[GenemZ]

[/size]

I'm not a guest, I'm a member. Think of it like a naturalised immigrant

You're here on a visa. You are not a citizen of the Kingdom sponsoring this forum. You are a member in a technical sense. But, if you were a citizen you would be granted certain rights you do not have. You would not be asking for them if you had them. And, when you joined you did not expect them. You have an extended visa.

If you were to become a citizen? You would need to be born here. Its in our constitution. We also provide a means to be born again.

- I may not be a Christian, but I like to think I'm part of CF.

I am glad you like feeling that way. But, it does not change reality of not being a citizen. Many immigrants enjoy being in a country before they achieve citizenship. That does not make them a citizen. Yet... you can get instant citizenship by serving in our army. But? How could that be? You would have to be defending the faith!

For the record, I think that if you were a regular and respected contributor to an atheist site, you'd be welcome to moderate.

You do not know me very well. To be "respected" requires I agree in a manner that you approve of.

You'd never get an Austrian as governor of a US state, would you...

Not before he became a citizen. He became a CITIZEN. Did he not? He was born again in a secular sense.

Seriously, though. I wouldn't dream of suggesting anyone moderate a subforum where they're not a regular, respected and valued contributor.

That is all subjective reasoning. For if that were the only standard? Certain mods who are Christian would not be allowed here if it were not for an objective means for evaluation.

I'm not proposing some sort of "atheist invasion". For example, I can't see anyone from outside a particular denomination moderating (or wanting to moderate) that demon's fellowship board.

OK....

On the other hand, many of the debate boards (Ethics, GA, CrEvo) and others (like the UK board) have long-term non-Christian contributors who are respected by Christians and non-Christians alike.

Because your antagonisms work in our favor. Your oppositions to truth opens up a door to have a greater exposition made on the truth. For our benefit. Not those who can not see it, Yet, we always hold the hope that somehow you will. So, you are welcome here. It helps us to grow.

Are you saying that their lack of faith would make them less able to moderate the part of the community where they are known and respected?

When they are known for asking questions that give opportunity for a greater sharing of the truth they oppose? Those who ask the best "wrong questions" are appreciated for what they cause in response to them. Not that the way they think promotes respect for them by virtue of how they think.
.

However, there are two things to unpick there. Firstly, acceptable behaviour is laid down by the rules, not by whether the mod is offended.

Subjective thinking can take a personal offense and have it conform to breaking the rules. Objective truth is often times offensive to those who oppose it. Jesus never broke the rules of God, but he was accused of breaking all the rules.

The rules should definitely have a Christian basis, as it's a Christian site. Furthermore, if something is offensive to Christians but the mod misses it, anyone offended will point it out in the report.

Not all things offensive to Christians is truly offensive in light of the truth. That is why we need a well balanced spectrum of all Christian beliefs represented in the mods. It was becoming very lopsided just before Erwin broke the news.

Secondly, the general tone and level of acceptable debate is something the mod will know from being a regular contributor to the subforum, not from his or her faith.

This is still a Forum designed for Christians. To have non Christians here in ways that are agreeable to Christians.

That's big of you. I don't actually want to moderate anything - I don't think I've been here anywhere near long enough to have earned that right. However, if I stick around long enough, I think I should be able to apply to be a moderator on one of the areas I frequent - and the success of the application should be based on whether I'd do a good job as a moderator.

You'd do a good job according to the limitations that being an atheist can see.

Jesus is both God and man. An Atheists can not be both an unbeliever, and believer.

He can not be both spiritually alive, and spiritually dead.

When you can master that? Then it may be up for consideration. Then you can be truly an Atheist who is a good moderator in a Christian forum. For you could objectively understand both sides.

We Christians are at an advantage over you. For we know what its like to be blind to what its like to be born again. For we were all at one time doubters of the existence of God. That is why we might be able to moderate an Atheist forum. If we have a good memory of our past, that is.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[CaDan]

I disagree. People can, of course, be - and are - moral without being Christian, but Christian values encompasses accepting the gift of Grace, and understanding you're a child of the Most High. Christian values includes knowing that all of this is for Him, and that this world isn't our home. Non-Christians find that way of thinking nuts. We differ fundamentally.

Summon the Walruses of Orthodoxy!

I smell Gnosticism!



I'm joking around with this example, but I have a serious point: Enforcement of orthodoxy has in the past led CF Staff to having to make decisions like this.

 

[CaDan]

In contrast, the mandates to Christians may be pleasing as well. But, God will throw tests at us to see if we are simply following them in the energy of the flesh (as the world does with its values) or, if we are being as we should be supernaturally, by grace.

CF isn't God. Neither is Erwin. Neither are you.

Yet you seem to imply that all three of those entities should be testing believers. C'mon gene--you know better than that. You've been on the receiving end of those tests.

 

[CaDan]

I advocate, and will continue to advocate, a return to the Nicene Creed as the standard of orthodoxy and the traditional Christian morality as shared by our forefathers for thousands of years as the best way to be the light to the world that CF yearns to be.

Anything less than that is merely eirenism under another name.

With or without the filioque?

 

[drstevej]

2 + 2 = (awaiting close of latest WIKI -- no socks, please!)

 

[CaDan]

You'd do a good job according to the limitations that being an atheist can see.

Jesus is both God and man. An Atheists can not be both an unbeliever, and believer.

He can not be both spiritually alive, and spiritually dead.

When you can master that? Then it may be up for consideration. Then you can be truly an Atheist who is a good moderator in a Christian forum. For you could objectively understand both sides.

This is all kind of weird coming from someone who rejects the Definition of Chalcedon.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Summon the Walruses of Orthodoxy!

I smell Gnosticism!



I'm joking around with this example, but I have a serious point: Enforcement of orthodoxy has in the past led CF Staff to having to make decisions like this.

You're either calling me a gnostic or a walrus, or a gnostic walrus... either way, not pleased.

You don't believe eternity will be spent in Heaven? What's 70-odd years next to eternity? It's barely a blip on the radar.