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I was having an interesting discussion with a Muslim about criteria in religion, and wanted to see how this is applicable within Christianity,

Basically, this will not work for someone who was brought up Christian and stayed, although it will work for anyone who was ever at any point in time outside of Christianity and was looking inside

Faith , in the religious sense cannot be proven, I cannot say "show me angels" and you will,

But in order to maintain intellectual honesty, in choosing a faith to follow for the rest of your life, you have to separate it from all the other ones,

And it is this action of separating faiths in order to find the true one, which criteria did you use?

(Eg, is it consistent, is it morally good) <- those are examples of criteria
 

Criada

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I studied many faiths.
From the inside, now, I would say that Jesus drew mw to Himself. But that doesn't help you from the outside.
The main thing that became clearer and clearer to me was that most faiths demanded that I live a good life by my own effort.
Possibly helped by a god or gods, but basically, I had to do it!

Jesus said - I know you can't do it on your own.
And He did it for me! He provided a way I could come to God, not through my own efforts, but by His free gift!
And that I needed!
Because on my own, I fail, eventually, however hard I try.
But Jesus has already won the victory!!

I don't know if that makes sense to you, but I hope it helps!

God bless you in your search!
 
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calidog

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Basically, this will not work for someone who was brought up Christian and stayed, although it will work for anyone who was ever at any point in time outside of Christianity and was looking inside
Actually, this would apply to those too. No-one has ever been brought up christian . They may have been brought up in a christian home, but they have'nt become a christian untill they have come to faith in Jesus Christ. Everyone of us were on the outside looking in. This would apply to all of us.
Eventually we learn about religions of the worlds.

The analogy would be like you have a dollar bill in your hand and a table full of counterfiets to compare to it.

Or in other cases, you have a counterfiet in your hand and you discover the real one.
 
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Key

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I would have to say, belief in God, or "a god" was just self revelation. but to find the path to that "god" was a different matter completely.

So when I was looking at "faiths" from the "outside looking in" I placed a few simple demands on the "biblical texts"..

I required "Timelessness" to them, that they were, and could be applied to current times in current day.

and I required evidence of Divinity, which broken down, would mean, I required that the religious texts had information in them, that people of the era that wrote them, would not or could not have known.

After all was said and done.

I found the only one that possessed these two traits, was Old and New testament.

Hence why I currently believe it.

Hope this Helped you out.

God Bless

Key
 
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psalm112

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Well, that is a thought-provoking question, but I think I have a good answer. We all have our own stories, but I assure you that anyone who is truly faithful in Christ will tell you that they chose it, and it is real.

Now, if you talk to someone who is atheist or agnostic, they will say over and over the words "don't care", "I", and "me". Well, that's because they don't want it to be real, not that they don't think it is. Everyone, whether they realize or say it, know there is something else. Why do you think people are afraid of death? It's the concept that has been placed within all people that there is an absolute, a definite, something beyond our simple knowledge that is worth fearing and worrying about. Even if they tell themselves that there is nothing after the world as we know it, they still fear death. Why? Because they know there is something else, that something beyond their understanding will happen.

Well, if we all know, why do they still say there is nothing after this life, that it's all a scientific coincidental accident? Because they don't want it to be true. Why? Because it gives them an excuse to do whatever they want. Again come the "me" and "I". It's all about me. I can do whatever I want. If this is all a chemical accident as evolution says, there is no absolute truth, no right or wrong, and they can live their life for their own selfish gains. They can do whatever they feel like without facing future consequences. The funny thing is, they usually still have basic morals (eg. don't lie, don't steal, don't murder). Why is that if there is no absolute law? Well, funny thing, we all have not only the concept of an absolute programmed in our heads, but also right and wrong and guilt. Isn't it funny how the two go together? It must be a chemical accident like evolution claims, right? No, it doesn't make sense. Therefore, there must be an absolute, a final law, something else beyond our understanding that sets limits for us. There must be some being greater than our understanding.

Here's a good analogy. Think of a field. You are a little kid. All you want is to play in a big field. The atheists and agnostics say, "Here you go, an infinitely endless field to play in. You can go anywhere you want in this field." The problem is that we all, deep down, want a fence. We want an absolute so we can know where we are. We want to have a sense of importance and reason. With a fence, even if we were on the wrong sideof it, we would be somewhere. Now, we are all on the wrong side, but Jesus says, "I have the key, and I will open the gate and let you back over here if you want me to." Why? Because He loves us! With His unconditional love, we feel important. We feel sure of something. We find that that void within us that we try to fill with earthly things that will corrode and ruin has been filled!

Now, what about other religions? I guarantee you, anyone who has another religion either doesn't take it seriously or still does not feel truly complete. They are trying to fill that hole with ice, which seems solid but eventually melts away. But Jesus fills it with cement, which may seem wet and useless at first but becomes solid and stays. I promise you, Christianity is the only consistent belief that really feels real.

I'm sorry if I got off track and missed the point. I do that sometimes. I hope this was helpful. God bless you!
 
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tapero

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I was having an interesting discussion with a Muslim about criteria in religion, and wanted to see how this is applicable within Christianity,

Basically, this will not work for someone who was brought up Christian and stayed, although it will work for anyone who was ever at any point in time outside of Christianity and was looking inside

Faith , in the religious sense cannot be proven, I cannot say "show me angels" and you will,

But in order to maintain intellectual honesty, in choosing a faith to follow for the rest of your life, you have to separate it from all the other ones,

And it is this action of separating faiths in order to find the true one, which criteria did you use?

(Eg, is it consistent, is it morally good) <- those are examples of criteria
Hi,I don't know if I have your question right, but seems your asking why Christianity?

Thing is there is only one God (Father,Son,HolySpirit)
 
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calidog said:
The analogy would be like you have a dollar bill in your hand and a table full of counterfiets to compare to it.

Or in other cases, you have a counterfiet in your hand and you discover the real one.

Exactly, and all Im asking, is how would one tell the real bill from the counterfeit ones
 
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psalm112 said:
anyone who is truly faithful in Christ will tell you that they chose it

See, this is the part I doubt

In order to choose, we must have criteria, if an individual does not have criteria, it means the individual did not choose, but had the choice made for him/her

Otherwise interesting post, (even though we are in disagreement about fences and consistent beliefs)
 
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tapero said:
Hi,I don't know if I have your question right, but seems your asking why Christianity?

Thing is there is only one God (Father,Son,HolySpirit)

Tapero, my question is slightly different from "Why Christianity" , if you look at calidogs post, and my reply to it, you will understand exactly what I mean

Anyways, if your criteria is having one God, then it cannot be the only criteria, since you could have just as easily arrived at either of the following conclusions

One God (YHVH)
One God (Allah)

So in order to choose, which is true, you must have applied criteria to decide...
 
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tapero

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Tapero, my question is slightly different from "Why Christianity" , if you look at calidogs post, and my reply to it, you will understand exactly what I mean

Anyways, if your criteria is having one God, then it cannot be the only criteria, since you could have just as easily arrived at either of the following conclusions

One God (YHVH)
One God (Allah)

So in order to choose, which is true, you must have applied criteria to decide...

are you stating that allah as referring to a separate god?

Thre is only one God as I stated below.
so if you are stating above allah as a separate little g god, then of course i had no other criteria, as there is no other God.

It's clear Jesus says I and the father are one.

no man come to the father but by me.

so the only way to the father is by Jesus, and since Jesus' death and resurrection that is the only way to come to the father, and again (Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit) are One God.

so, there is no other God, only little g gods
 
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ebia

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Tapero, my question is slightly different from "Why Christianity" , if you look at calidogs post, and my reply to it, you will understand exactly what I mean

Anyways, if your criteria is having one God, then it cannot be the only criteria, since you could have just as easily arrived at either of the following conclusions

One God (YHVH)
One God (Allah)

So in order to choose, which is true, you must have applied criteria to decide...
They are the same thing - Allah is simply God in Arabic.
 
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1. Knowledge of the Lord - God has revealed Himself to me through the Word, Through the Creation and through the Wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Key is to seek that wisdom instead of worldly intellect and appreciate the Creation for what it is.

2. Assent to His Lordship - Live life with Christ as your Lord.

3. Trust in Him


2 & 3 are growth measures (for lack of a better term at the moment). They are part of the Sanctification process commonly call the "Walk With Christ. As you mature in you Faith, Lordship becomes more and more apparent and Trust in His Promise begins to see a new person emerge.
 
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Criada

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Criada,- I get you, basically realizing that it is impossible to attain perfection by yourself, you decided that the true religion had to have an answer for that

your criteria is quite unexpected , thank you
Yes, that about sums it up!

Of course, now I could give you hundreds of reasons why I believe - but, as you say, they probably only work from the 'inside'.

But, as an ex-outsider, I can only say that my decision has proved right for me!
 
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malckiah

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Well, i did not choose Christianity at all. Not in the least....infact i hated it. i did not search, nor choose to know more about it.....The Lord Himself came into my life without any search on my part. i ofcourse accepted Him, but how could i not.....when The Truth presents itself, you don't deny it! I was in satanism at the time and God pulled me out. It is only by His grace that i am who i am today.

And as far as knowing which bill is the fake.....well, if you get familiar enough with the real one, the fakes will be more obvious!
:thumbsup:
 
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tapero said:
are you stating that allah as referring to a separate god?

Thre is only one God as I stated below.
so if you are stating above allah as a separate little g god, then of course i had no other criteria, as there is no other God.


I am not stating that Allah is a separate God, but I am stating that the followers of Allah have a different faith, and since the question was about which criteria you used to decide between faiths, and you said "one God", it is inconclusive since if that were the only criteria then you might as well be Muslim or Jewish, so Im asking for which criteria you now used to distinguish between the 3 Abrahamic religions

It's clear Jesus says I and the father are one.
I was asking from the point of view of the outsiders perspective, and from there all scripture is equivalent, so you might as well be quoting Buddha ;)
 
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