There must be something I'm missing: please help!

[randompalindrome]

Hello, I'm an ateist and I need to talk to some theists.
The main problem is that I don't understand why theists believe in god, I just don't get it. maybe i never will but ought to try anyway.
All the theists I know either won't talk to me or wont explain it properly.
I really need help here.
Why do you believe in god? Why are some people atheists and some theists?
I have another question as well.
Do you (christians) not understnd atheists; is this a two way problem or is it just me??

2 rules please:
you can't refer that 'feeling' because that pushes me furthur from understanding.
If your refer to the bible please look at it the way I'd look at it, critically. Feel free to quote but you have to understand that I believe that the bible isn't the word of god and hold little value apart from philosophical value.

Also I really don't like the fact that there is a chiristain only section but its your site.

 

[£amb]

I will try my best to answer your questions. My mind is not quite all together right now because of a family event that has taken place, but have felt led to answer...


All the theists I know either won't talk to me or wont explain it properly.

There are christians who have great wisdom and are able to explain things that can be understood, and then there are others, like myself, who try their darnest to answer but can't put what we want to say into words. I know if I don't understand something, then I won't understand what that person is saying because it doesn't make sense to me.



Why do you believe in god?

I believe because of many things that have happened in my life that I could not sum it up to be coincidence. I knew it was more than that.

Why are some people atheists and some theists?

Because it's how people have responded to God's calling. Some people answered it, and others have rejected it.


Do you (christians) not understnd atheists; is this a two way problem or is it just me??

Not all christians grew up in christian homes. Many here can tell you that they were atheists themselves. I may not understand everything such as yourself, but I give respect to all people whether they believe or not.



Also I really don't like the fact that there is a chiristain only section but its your site.

This is a christian site. But they have allowed all to come and discuss many things. I've been to other christians sites who do not allow this. I find it lacking. I like to read other people's thoughts, questions and concerns. It keeps my mind sharpened.

I don't have those fuzzy warm feelings that some people experience. God is very active in my life and has been for a long time. I know for atheists it's hard to understand how we can't explain this, but it is hard to put into words. I've just been through a life changing event. I was just at my mother's funeral yesterday. She was a strong christian woman. I was there with my family when we saw her take her last breath. I have witnessed God's work in this event. Even in the bleakest moment in my life, I can still see God working.

 

[randompalindrome]

Sorry about your mother.
Thanks for replying but it didn't help very much but its comforting that someones willing to discuss this.
You said that
"I believe because of many things that have happened in my life that I could not sum it up to be coincidence. I knew it was more than that."
This questing help, its that 'the feeling' thing again. Recently something happened to me that was quite freaky but I wouldn't put it up to a god.
what i'm looking for is a logical explanation. a train of thought that leads to your christian god (or just a god, i'm not picky).
Thanks for replying and, once again, my condolences

 

[KarrieTex]

Hello, I'm an ateist and I need to talk to some theists.
The main problem is that I don't understand why theists believe in god, I just don't get it. maybe i never will but ought to try anyway.
All the theists I know either won't talk to me or wont explain it properly.
I really need help here.
Why do you believe in god? Why are some people atheists and some theists?
I have another question as well.
Do you (christians) not understnd atheists; is this a two way problem or is it just me??

2 rules please:
you can't refer that 'feeling' because that pushes me furthur from understanding.
If your refer to the bible please look at it the way I'd look at it, critically. Feel free to quote but you have to understand that I believe that the bible isn't the word of god and hold little value apart from philosophical value.

Also I really don't like the fact that there is a chiristain only section but its your site.

Let me address the feeling issue. You have to remember that Christians live and believe on faith alone. It is a feeling that becomes concrete. It is intangible much like air. However, as air is real and tangible to a certain degree, God is as real to a Christian.

I believe in God because one) I was brought up in a Christian home and was taught about Him, two) at my conversion I physically heard and felt Him call, and three) as a grew older and into adult hood, there has been nothing that has shaken the realness of His voice and physicalaity of my salavation experience.

You are asking some deep questions and you will need to be patient to get to the answers you are seeking. I am hopefully answering them as best as I can on the level you asked.

Some believe and some don't because they have been called and not called. You are now getting into predestination and freewill, which is a hard precept to speak about. Bibically speaking God calls the elect (those who will be accepting of Christ) to Him. Some people will not be called and before you aske God has a plan for this World and yes that includes using peole who do not believe in Him. Every step this world on a whole takes brings as closer to the final moments and Christ's reign for eternity.

For your final question, yes I understand atheist. I know where they are coming from but what I don't understand is why they can not take what we as Believes say at face value. Why is their constant question and harrassing about why we believe this and why this happens. Even there are times we don't know what God is doing but we do know it will be for His glory.

 

[Loveaboveall]

You seem to be searching... you say you had a freaky experience... Has this pushed you to start asking these questions? As many of us who grew up christian can understand, It is hard to know where an athiest is coming from to answer the questions you ask. Also this is a question that cannot be answered in a post. But here is some things to think about.

Look around you, take the time to look close at a flower. I mean really get down and look at it. Smell it. touch it. How beautiful it is isn't it. Think about the sea turtles. When the babies are hatched there is no parent to lead them, How do they know to go to the water, and eat, and swim, and... live? The theory of evolution(I assume you believe in evolution if you are an athiest) is based on the weaker characteristics of a species dying off and the better ones living... Think of your eyesight that you have to look at a flower. There are many structres that must work perfectly in your eye, optic nerve, and brain for you to see. All these structres are completely useless without the others. That means that during the process of evolution from an amoeba to a being that can see all of these structres would have had to evolve at the exact same time in the same living entity. This is what I mean-- If a living creature grew an eyeball that none of the others in his species had it would do it no good because it would also need an optic nerve and tract and a brain that could recieve and understand the signals. Not to mention all the structures within the eyeball that are needed to even send an electrical impulse to the brain. Can you see my point... For me it is much easier to have faith that a supreme being created me than to have faith that I evolved from nothingness!

One last thing... if you study the bible especially the prophecies of the old testament and compare them to history you will find that they predict accurately 100% of the time. Take some time and do a study of prophecy at bibleuniverse.com even if you are skeptical. Put God to the test and see if He passes the test.

 

[winsome]

Hello, I'm an ateist and I need to talk to some theists.
The main problem is that I don't understand why theists believe in god, I just don't get it. maybe i never will but ought to try anyway.
All the theists I know either won't talk to me or wont explain it properly.
I really need help here.
Why do you believe in god? Why are some people atheists and some theists?
I have another question as well.
Do you (christians) not understnd atheists; is this a two way problem or is it just me??

2 rules please:
you can't refer that 'feeling' because that pushes me furthur from understanding.
If your refer to the bible please look at it the way I'd look at it, critically. Feel free to quote but you have to understand that I believe that the bible isn't the word of god and hold little value apart from philosophical value.

Also I really don't like the fact that there is a chiristain only section but its your site.

There are big decision that we have to make in life that affect our futures.

One of these is whether we believe in the existence of non-material beings outside of our material cosmos; more specifically in what we could call God? And if we believe in a God what is the nature of that God. Again our decision on this should affect our whole way of living. The Christian belief is there is one God, who is, who always was, and who always will be. A God who created all that exists apart from himself, more specifically who created each one of us.

Christianity is a religion of faith not reason. That does not mean that it is irrational or that reason has no place to play in. But it is based on faith; faith that God exists, that he has revealed himself to mankind in his actions, in his word and through his incarnate son Jesus. But there is actually no way of proving this definitively or disproving it either.

We believe there is evidence from the experience of our own lives and the lives of others. There are philosophical “proofs” (such as from first cause). But the bottom line is that there is no way of proving God exists or proving God does not exist in any scientific way.

Although I was brought up a Christian, for many years from my teenage years I was agnostic. But I came to realise that this was an important issue and I guess in a way I came to a faith decision. But having done that everything made more sense and my faith built up. It’s very difficult to put it into words. The Bible makes more sense the more I study it. We need to look though the Bible with the eyes of faith. The Bible was written by men of faith for those of faith and needs to be interpreted with the mind of faith. As St. Augustine said “I believe in order to understand”. Without faith we will read the words but not understand the message.

I guess that could sound a bit like if I look through red glasses then everything will look red. But it’s not like that.

Sorry I can’t explain better. I’m going away for a few days now but I’ll look in again on this thread when I get back.

 

[dvd_holc]

I believe in God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I do because I am a created being who is built upon other created beings. As a creation, I go back to that created order because that created order gives me purpose. More than that, God gives the best possible life because He made us. But you don't see any order...but are only confused in chaos...then it will be near impossible to see what I see.

 

[whatfor]

I was not raised a Christian,I never acknowledge Gods exsistance, but in the back of my mind I had the feeling he may be there, so I was always unwilling to say anything bad about Him just in case he was real and I may regret it later.
I am also not gifted in the ability to explain it so I probably can't help you much.
I believe because He has changed me so much and I have experienced things that I can only see were Gods work, sorry but I can't explain it any better.

I understand how atheists must think, I am one who needs proof to believe, every arguement we could give to prove God exists could be disproved I guess, It took me 5 months of going to church before I was willing to give my life to God, I was very scepticle.
I have no doubts now , but that doesn't help you believe.

Like others have said it is all up to you to believe (have faith).
The above posts are great but you can easily discount what they have said, I know what they are saying but I believe already, an athiest isn't going to be changed by our opinion.

I try to explain it when people ask me, but acknowledge to them that I don't expect them to believe without seeing for themselves.

 

[winsome]

Hi, randompalidrome,

I’ve been thinking a bit more about this.

There was a thread a few weeks ago on the lines of “Hey you Christians, when did you give up believing in Santa Clause”. With the question that if we gave up the childish belief in Santa Claus why haven’t we given up the childish belief in God?

Several years ago there was a very popular and very funny science fiction book called The Hitch Hikers Guide To The Universe (may not have made it to USA). It became a series, but in one book they built the most powerful computer the galaxy had ever know to answer the ultimate question. It asked “what is the ultimate question” To which the reply was “Well you know, Life the Universe and Everything.”.

And in a sense that is the ultimate question. What is the meaning, the purpose of my life? Does it have one? What is the meaning, the purpose of the universe, of everything? Is there one?

And for me God is the answer, and in particular Jesus Christ – his incarnation, life death, resurrection and ascension into heaven. The more I study the Bible, the more I try and become attuned to God’s ways the more everything makes sense. Of course there is a lot that doesn’t make sense, but then I am just a limited, finite, mortal human. So making sense of an unlimited, infinite, immortal God is never going to be easy (or fully possible).

I really must go now.

 

[FriarErasmus]

Hello, I'm an ateist and I need to talk to some theists.
The main problem is that I don't understand why theists believe in god, I just don't get it. maybe i never will but ought to try anyway.
All the theists I know either won't talk to me or wont explain it properly.
I really need help here.
Why do you believe in god? Why are some people atheists and some theists?
I have another question as well.
Do you (christians) not understnd atheists; is this a two way problem or is it just me??

2 rules please:
you can't refer that 'feeling' because that pushes me furthur from understanding.
If your refer to the bible please look at it the way I'd look at it, critically. Feel free to quote but you have to understand that I believe that the bible isn't the word of god and hold little value apart from philosophical value.

Also I really don't like the fact that there is a chiristain only section but its your site.

I'm going to have to think on this one for a while... But I do understand where you are coming from. I went through a period of my life where I seriously questioned whether or not God existed. Until I have a chance to explain in full detail why I believe what I believe, please check out this book, written by an atheist who became a believer: Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

I will think on this question and respond. I sincerely hope you can come to understand why we believe even if you do not come to the same point of belief.

And though you do not believe in my God, I will still pray for you to gain understanding and that you find what you seek.

Living for Christ,
FriarErasmus

Disclaimer: IANAF & INTTCY
(I am not a friar & I'm not trying to convert you)

 

[randompalindrome]

Thanks, you guys are alright
But I still don't understand. I've been thinking about my question 'why do you guys in god and I don't?' and I'll rephrase it: Whats the difference between atheists and theists?
I've always thought that one group knew something the other one didn't, you guys knew something I didn't or I knew something you didn't (this now seems quite illogical). From what you're all saying the difference appears to be faith and belief. The thing is that you seem to like belief and faith but I abhor the stuff, why do you like it?
If you someone told you that there are electrons would you just accept or want to know why you should believe in electrons? There are good reasons, you don't need to believe you can make assumptions based on evidence. I think this might be the difference, I hate belief without evidence and you live with it.
This may should like I'm attacking you but its just a train of thought.
/discuss <---(isn't that cool)

btw, the freaky experiance mentioned was just an example, I was trying to relate, it didn't spur any of this.
I live in the UK and love douglas adams RIP (he was an atheist)
I was a christian up to, about, age 9. The only reason I believed is that I had gone to church all my life and never questioned the whole god thing. I thought my parents wouldn't lie to me.
The evolution thing is hard but people who reject it tend not to understand it. I'm reading a book by richard dawkins which is making evolution make more sence (Climbing mount improbable)

 

[jak]

Most theists probably have been exposed to the theory that that there is a Being beyond the world that we see around us; and this being created the world. One can argue endlessly about who created the Being, then, but by definition, the Being is beyond creation, and always existed. Theists find that explanation for the incredibly complex world around us more believable than the idea of beutifully designed, incredibly complex matter coming out of a mindless nothing, which atheists have perforce to believe.

For Christians, the matter is easier to believe because we also have been exposed to the idea that this Being came into the created world and lived a while with us. When we examine the claims of the person who claimed to be God and man both, we are somehow, wierdly, strangely comfortable with the idea that yes, this person rings true, and our lives will be better lived believing that not only is there a God, but he came into our world in the person of Jesus Christ.

Strange, I know. But I think thats the best big-view explanation for the world, and I'm happy to live my life relating, in my thoughts and prayers, to God as I know Him in Christ. When we come down to the details, I don't know how God created, thats the job of scientists to figure out.I like to keep informed, but cannot pretend that I know the answers. I hope we find out someday.

 

[randompalindrome]

yeah, I hope we find out some day if there is or isn't a god. I wonder what effect it will have on the world.
As for the whole 'atheists have mroe faith to believe it all came out of nothingness', its not the way its seen, we don't knwo what started it but we admit that and we can understand (so far as that we cant for certain know all the facts) how we got here from a little energy being turned into mass. You probebly have threads about this stuff.
From all the explainations there seems to be no anwer that I can understand, that I can rationalize in an 'oh.. that makes sence' way.

I'll give you an example (you don't have to read this):
In the 'usual suspects' you're brain sort of saying 'what' until the end where you see the board and kevin spacy walks straight and you say.. "oh... that makes sence"
Hitler had a hard life and was a failed artist "oh.. that makes sence"
I want that bit of information that makes things make sence.

 

[Emmy]

Dear randompalindrome, you had some very good replies, and I agree with most of them. I too, was like you, looking for something, that made sense. I knew Jesus from school, and I loved Him very much, but I could not believe, that He was God`Son, part of the Holy Trinity. When my family had made their own ways, and I had time to really think, I started actively looking and asking. Jesus found me, and after some time of Bible-Study and church-going, I joined the Salvation-Army. Jesus told us when He walked on Earth, to Repent, and follow 2 important Commanments, which contain all 10 God gave us. " Love God with all your being,(heart, soul and mind) and love each other, as you love yourselves." which means worship God, your Maker, and treat everybody you know, or meet, with kindness, understanding, considerration, forgiveness, selfless love, and helping hands. Jesus is waiting to help and guide us, and lead us back to God. Thousands of Christian men and women, can, and will testify that this is the way to life abundant, as Jesus promised. It is very hard to start, randompalindrome, but gets easier, and easier. People will be kind and friendly to you, and you will find, God is with you. There really is something missing, and if you trust the Lord, and take Him at His word, you will find the Love, Joy and Peace, only Jesus gives. I say this humbly and encouragingly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[salida]

Random--

I will give you two reasons why I'm a christian. Its a spiritual reason and intellectual one. You won't understand the Bible right now because its a supernatural book. The Holy Spirit will open your eyes if your open to God. Its Gods philosophy in the Bible - mans philosophy is just the opposite of Gods.

Next, if you do your homework you will find that the Bible is the most true book in the world. Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (an athiest but now a christian). And An Evidence Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell. These books will stand up in court. Denying this information is like denying the sunrise in the morning. One more is Gods Fingerprints- this is filled with science. Intellectually if one denys Gods existence after this book-then they are in complete denial.

A great website - www.reasons.org - its science and faith. There is good science and bad science. I'm a scientist myself.

 

[Confess]

Fact: We are all sinners. None of us is perfect = proof we are sinners. We all get sick, we all die = proof we are all sinners.


A fact about sinners is that we naturally reject God.

Faith in God comes from God himself. But not everyone will accept Him.

So those who reject God will try and figure out a form of god that they will worship or they will become atheists.


(((Just a note: the thing you think on the most is your god, so that means atheism cannot be true.)))

 

[stumpjumper]

I want that bit of information that makes things make sence.

I think you're looking at faith from too much of an evidentialist perspective...

Faith is something that is active and alive. It is not an intellectual acceptance of a set of creeds (although it does include that at some point). Faith is fundamental trust in God and living a beneficial and meaningful life.

If one does that, they have turned from nihilism towards living a life of meaning and purpose. That is the foundation then for theism for many Christians. It is a response to God's self-disclosure and calls us to action.

Proof's for God existence only ever make sense from a perspective of faith, IMO.

 

[ksen]

Hello, I'm an ateist and I need to talk to some theists.
The main problem is that I don't understand why theists believe in god, I just don't get it. maybe i never will but ought to try anyway.
All the theists I know either won't talk to me or wont explain it properly.
I really need help here.
Why do you believe in god?

I've always believed in a "God" for as long as I remember. I've believed particularly in Jesus as God for about 15 years now.

Why did I decide to believe in Jesus? What I was shown from the Bible fit my own thoughts and just rang true to me.

You may chalk that down to feelings or whatever but I don't think you'll find that many people that sat down and went through a rigorous logical analysis of the Christian faith before deciding to believe.

Why are some people atheists and some theists?

Personal choice? Why do some people like anchovies on their pizza and others don't?

I have another question as well.
Do you (christians) not understnd atheists; is this a two way problem or is it just me??

I struggle to understand the Atheist's viewpoint because that worldview is so foreign to my own. That doesn't give me an excuse not to TRY to understand though.

 

[reverend B]

don't know why i think my two cents is worth listening to, but here goes....

i was an agnostic, i always said. i would believe if it could be proven to me. of course, that didn't, and wont, happen.
but the miracles of the processes and order of the universe always stopped me cold. the process of a turkey sub being broken down into the good stuff, which i keep, and the waste, which i expel, is so complex it baffles the imagination. the more you study biology, chemistry, astronomy, physics and so on, the more irrational it seemed to me that no one was at the wheel. that a generic cell (stem cell) could transform itself into any one of thousands of different kinds of more specific cells, that there is a genetic code that defines "me", jump in anywhere you like and you find miracles. the fact that science can describe the "how" of some of these doesn't make them any the less improbable, or miraculous. if this were the case with one or two things, we could fluff it off. but i am in this kind of awe everywhere i look.
that was part of it. i also read things about love in the new testament that were so radical it was jaw dropping, and it fit into what i saw in the world. we were not predisposed to be love to the world. in fact, the things man does to man are unconscienable. here was a radical different way that could only make sense if there was more than "this".
then i read some stuff, because like you i am a rationalist and i had to have rational reasons to allow myself to take a leap. "mere Christianity", "letters from a skeptic", that sort of thing. (one must be careful here. the wrong apologetics can push you away forever!)
i also had to decide that i was not going to be a prisoner of scripture, but rather let scripture set me free. unlike others here, i will readily admit that poking holes in scripture is not that difficult a task, and i have read all the amazing twisted turns of logic that apologetics make to claim the infallibility of it, but i prefer the big picture taught in the Bible, and that is the story of how to love, and why.
all of which proved nothing. it simply led me to the edge of the cliff, a precipice, where the choice was mine. that is all you can ever expect to get. then you operate on faith, you take the leap with no net beneath you and say "yes, Lord, yes".
you want proof? it will never come. were it available there would be no faith, for there would be no need. you want your best evidence? here it is. the very idea of God never leaves you alone. you are here in Christian forums. you are asking the question. if you stop asking it here, you will ask it of yourself. you will not find peace from the question. that is the presence of God in the unbeliever. though you reject Him, you will never find yourself comfortable in your decision. the question lingers on, no matter how improbable things may seem.
someone's knockin' at the door....
someone's ringin' the bell...
open the door...
let Him in...
yeah, yeah...........

 

[whatfor]

you want proof? it will never come. were it available there would be no faith, for there would be no need

I like that, I never thought of it like that.