The evidence for evolution

CACTUSJACKmankin

Scientist
Jan 25, 2007
3,484
128
✟11,817.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Okay here's an overview of the evidence for evolution:

Nuclear DNA - this includes both gross comparison and comparison of the coding for proteins (Since there are thousands of proteins in the body, this can be tested over and over to ensure consistency).

Mitochondrial DNA - passed down only by mother and is much less prone to change (having two pieces of DNA provides two data sets that should be consistent).

Comparative anatomy - One of the main methods used to group taxa. When you dissect a mouse, a whale, and a human, apart from size they look the same.

Bone Structural comparison - The skull of almost any given vertebrate for example has dozens of bones and each is named and measured precisely and these can be compared.

Fossil record - Not only gives us evidence of what paths life likely took to progress.

Embryology - Many higher taxa are grouped together because they share developmental stages. Ebryos can show which structures arise from which developmental cells. This has been used to confirm that bird feathers are derived from reptilian scales.

Biogeography - The study of the distribution of species on the planet using a combination evolution and geography. Species occur almost precisely where we would expect them to based on the fossil record and plate tectonics.

Ecology - Ecology is the study of the interactions between organisms, species, and the environment. This is essentially the study of the factors that drive evolution.

Symbiosis - When the family trees of symbiotic species are layed on top of each other, they fit almost perfectly. I.E. when one species splits off, so does its symbiotic species.

Please explain why this isn't enough evidence and what would be sufficient.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2005
6,032
116
45
✟6,911.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Here's a website with actual golly gosh EXAMPLES of animals becoming a different species.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB910.html

Take that!

Evolution also made predictions about what we would find. Now, if evolution was false, then you'd think that these predictions would be shown to be false. But...

http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/evo_science.html

Again evolution scores!

it has also been claimed that evolution "is just a theory." True, and that's exactly why it is so great, because a scientific theory isn't just a guess, it's as close to proven as it can ever get!

http://www.notjustatheory.com/

Score again!

It's also claimed that the scientific evidence points to a young Earth - such as the decay of earth's magnetic field, the accumulation of metal in the oceans, etc.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

Once again, science is triumphant!

it has also been claimed that evolution can't be true because it doesn't explain "irreducible complexity".

Firstly, creationists assume falsely that science claims to have all the answers now - but it doesn't. Secondly, science has explained irreducible complexity!

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html

Science wins again!
 
Upvote 0

metherion

Veteran
Aug 14, 2006
4,185
368
37
✟13,623.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It's not enough evidence because it contradicts an old Jewish myth included in the Bible to teach morals lessons and explain moral views that was thought up specifically to tell how everything came into existence before the davent of science, but that some people take literally due to a "false dilemma" logical fallacy mindset of accepting everything literally or completely discounting everything.

What would be sufficient?
God only knows, because humanity hasn't learned how unlearn stubbornness and probably never will.

Metherion
 
Upvote 0

EnemyPartyII

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2006
11,524
893
38
✟20,084.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Firstly, creationists assume falsely that science claims to have all the answers now - but it doesn't. Secondly, science has explained irreducible complexity!
1. The Bible DOES have all the answers, therefore, is superior to science, allso known as the "I don't need no stinking ice cores to prove that global warming isn't happening" proof

2. You can't explain irreducible complexity, because its irreduceable. D'uh!
 
Upvote 0

CACTUSJACKmankin

Scientist
Jan 25, 2007
3,484
128
✟11,817.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
1. The Bible DOES have all the answers, therefore, is superior to science, allso known as the "I don't need no stinking ice cores to prove that global warming isn't happening" proof
Using the bible as a replacement for the truth, rather than a suppliment, is a pretty surefire way to get wrong.

BTW The IPCC recently gave anthropormorphic (human cause) global warming a 90% chance, almost nobody says it isn't happening. If anthropomorphic global warming had arguably not achieved consensus, it has with this report.
 
Upvote 0

metherion

Veteran
Aug 14, 2006
4,185
368
37
✟13,623.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Well, of course the Bible has all the answers. So do the Greek myths, the Babylonian myths, the Egyptians myths, the Chinese myths and so on. Every classical civilization had its own myth set to explain everything, whether it be God creating to world in six days, the world being held up by Atlas, the world being the corpse of a dead god killed before time began, or whatever.

The Bible just happens to contain the Jewish set, which are designed to explain things. Calling it the true explaination is circular logic:
(several thousand years ago)
Why do these things happen?
Because of this! I'm now going to tell it as a tale.
*time passes, tale get put in the Bible*
Why do these things happen?
Because this tale from the Bible says so!

Metherion
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
34
Toronto Ontario
✟23,099.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
Nuclear DNA - this includes both gross comparison and comparison of the coding for proteins (Since there are thousands of proteins in the body, this can be tested over and over to ensure consistency).
Explain, I don't see any evidence in your definition of Nuclear DNA, get into specifics please.

Mitochondrial DNA - passed down only by mother and is much less prone to change (having two pieces of DNA provides two data sets that should be consistent).
Explain, I don't see any evidence in your definition of Mithochondrial DNA, get into specifics please.

Comparative anatomy - One of the main methods used to group taxa. When you dissect a mouse, a whale, and a human, apart from size they look the same.
So, again, the argument for evolution is that species with more and more differences are placed further and further apart on the evolutionnary timescale, and the species with more and more similarities are place closer and closer. This looks more like an assumption, unless of course you can change my mind about it.

A graph from the Talk.Origins archive :

phylo.gif


Bone Structural comparison - The skull of almost any given vertebrate for example has dozens of bones and each is named and measured precisely and these can be compared.
Are you talking about this by any chance? I really wish you would be more specific...

hominids2.jpg


Fossil record - Not only gives us evidence of what paths life likely took to progress.
The fossil record is apparently not a good scource for evidence for evolution, since we hardly find intermediates from one "kind" of animal to another "kind".(I know, it's a creationist term, but think of it this way, in the fossil record we won't see intermediates between vastly different complex bone structures) And when we do, we can always question them.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Wayne Duck:[/FONT] “Wallace’s first point is ‘that one’s interpretation of the fossil record will invariably be influenced by one’s presuppositions.’ He is absolutely correct. Any historical science will be subject to interpretation because we can only test theories in the present, not the past... The fossil record does not, in the strict sense, provide evidence for evolution.”

Embryology - Many higher taxa are grouped together because they share developmental stages. Ebryos can show which structures arise from which developmental cells.
Are you using that fraud Haeckel as a scource. (you know what's funny, just now I remember seeing Haeckel's drawings when I was in fifth grade in a "science" textbook, and my teacher, while I was in fifth grade, brain washed me with that material, I'm not saying it was her fault though.)

I mean, it all looks so beautiful doesn't it?

202drawings.jpg


When in actuality Richardson's photographs of the same embryos look more like this:

embryo4.jpg


This has been used to confirm that bird feathers are derived from reptilian scales.
details again, please.

Biogeography - The study of the distribution of species on the planet using a combination evolution and geography. Species occur almost precisely where we would expect them to based on the fossil record and plate tectonics.
I would request that you get into more details, and into specific empirical data.

Ecology - Ecology is the study of the interactions between organisms, species, and the environment. This is essentially the study of the factors that drive evolution.
I would also request you get into more details for this one, thank you.

Symbiosis - When the family trees of symbiotic species are layed on top of each other, they fit almost perfectly. I.E. when one species splits off, so does its symbiotic species.
details.

Please explain why this isn't enough evidence and what would be sufficient.
Let's continue this.
 
Upvote 0

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
34
Toronto Ontario
✟23,099.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
...this statement made by Dr. Henry Morris is about 20 years old, we now know it to be false, please stop spreading falsehoods about creationism in general.

I know what the scientific definition for the word "theory" is.

It would take me way too long to rebute a whole webpage, why don't you pull out empirical data and we can talk about it.

it has also been claimed that evolution can't be true because it doesn't explain "irreducible complexity".

Firstly, creationists assume falsely that science claims to have all the answers now - but it doesn't. Secondly, science has explained irreducible complexity!

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/ev...2/article.html

Science wins again!
I'd have to study the flagellum more to get a good answer for you.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

XTE

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2006
2,796
113
Houston, Tx
✟3,642.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Others
Hey RichardT, upholder of the translated Bible and none other:

Could you give me details on part one, part 2, part 3, then explain what you DON'T GET about the definition of "Developmental Stages," then give details on 5, 6, 7, 8, the 3 responses to links above you are too busy to answer yet demand the same in return clearly in your first response. Let's keep you as busy as you are trying keep them, ok? Details, details, and then probably more details after that. Fillibuster time! Details with them too. Did I mention details? Is mentioning details, like it's a bad thing for you, even a good thing for me? Details!

and...


details?

oh and....can you go ahead and do the world a favor and study that there flagellum for all of us? We'd appreciate it and contact Ken Miller too, he's probably waiting by the phone.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums