Had a Run-In with a Famous Atheist

[Gwenyfur]

But that's a decent layman's explanation of the Big Bang. Before the Big Bang (although there wasn't really any "before", since time doesn't exist with everything compressed like that), the universe was compressed into an extremely small area. A phase transition caused it to expand extremely rapidly as the gravitational force separated from the electronuclear force.

and you just put the average 10th grader to sleep LOL

Which is *why* they're teaching it in layman's terms...and even in your terms...pft...still not buyin' it

 

[Gwenyfur]

No, they're not. Did you miss the part where I said they're occasionally wrong, but other scientists inevitably expose them? But scientists are often correct, and it is, frankly, really dumb to just toss their ideas out.

When they don't add up to what's taught in Scripture...yeah...toss 'em....it's called FAITH

Gwenyfur, you really don't remember the nylonase bug, do you? We've talked about it before. If you'd been paying attention, you would have remembered that the nylonase bug can't have existed before that point, because it contains an enzyme designed to break down and digest nylon, which is a synthetic, man-made product that didn't even exist until the last century. Please, please stop being so defensive, Gwenyfur. We really can help you understand all of this better but you need to stop acting like we're the enemy.

more like brain dead, doin' the mom thing, overworked, underpaid, just closed on a house and moving, living on 3 hours of sleep a day....yeah that tends to make me just more than my usual forgetful...I'm down right alzheimer's

Could you provide some links to those particular issues? I'm not readily familiar with them.

lemme see if I can scare 'em up here at work...

 

[Dannager]

It actually does...the 2 are inherently linked....a lot of their premise is based on the theory of evolution...after all man is still evolving...what will he become next etc...

Yeah, but just because Humanists like evolutionary theory doesn't mean that evolutionary theory is subject to the same criticisms Humanists are. If a guy living in an apartment kills someone, it doesn't reflect poorly on apartments. You need to start avoiding fallacies like this, Gwenyfur.

 

[Dannager]

and you just put the average 10th grader to sleep LOL

Which is *why* they're teaching it in layman's terms...and even in your terms...pft...still not buyin' it

Actually, as far as I'm aware high school textbooks go into more depth than I did. Mine sure did when I was in high school.

And why aren't you "buyin' it"? What about it is unconvincing to you? The majority of scientists accept it (heck, the majority of the world accepts it). Why have you decided not to?

 

[Gwenyfur]

Nylonase

 

[Dannager]

When they don't add up to what's taught in Scripture...yeah...toss 'em....it's called FAITH

Well-reasoned faith is good. But you're talking about blind faith, which is not only a really awful idea to follow, but is also psychologically unhealthy.

more like brain dead, doin' the mom thing, overworked, underpaid, just closed on a house and moving, living on 3 hours of sleep a day....yeah that tends to make me just more than my usual forgetful...I'm down right alzheimer's

Fine, stress I can understand. Please don't take that stress out on me or anyone else here in my shoes. We're working to be helpful, and to provide you with some semblance of the education you never received, or had talked out of you. I can promise you that your faith in God will be just as strong even though you accept the Big Bang and evolutionary theory and all that. Mine is, and hundreds of thousands of others' is as well.

 

[Dannager]

Nylonase

I suggest reading the original article he links to. You just linked Dembski's response to it, which amounted to nothing more than a defense of his position on his own blog. I don't have the scientific background to be able to comment on Dembski's claims, but given his history of not being able to provide any actual examples of his ID hypothesis at work (all the examples of irreducible complexity he's come up with have been quickly shown to be, in fact, not irreducibly complex), he's probably in much the same boat with this one.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Hey...it's a theory

 

[Gwenyfur]

Well-reasoned faith is good. But you're talking about blind faith, which is not only a really awful idea to follow, but is also psychologically unhealthy.

only when that faith is misplaced on mankind ... blind faith is what got you saved....after all there's no empirical data on the existence of G-d or His reasons for salvation. If we stuck to empirical data only, Y'shua would only be a historical figure who was crucified for treason...
might want to rethink that one just a tad D

Fine, stress I can understand. Please don't take that stress out on me or anyone else here in my shoes. We're working to be helpful, and to provide you with some semblance of the education you never received, or had talked out of you. I can promise you that your faith in God will be just as strong even though you accept the Big Bang and evolutionary theory and all that. Mine is, and hundreds of thousands of others' is as well.

And again, you have no idea of my background....or my education level. How I *CHOOSE* to write and speak and the reasons why are my business.
besides, just 'cause all my friends go jump off a bridge doesn't mean I'm going to


**added**
This:

I can promise you that your faith in God will be just as strong even though you accept the Big Bang and evolutionary theory and all that.

Sounds ironically familiar...different flavoring...but reminiscent of:

5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.


6And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

I promise you all of this education...if you will just give up your ignorance...

scarey D...really scarey...

 

[Dannager]

only when that faith is misplaced on mankind ... blind faith is what got you saved....after all there's no empirical data on the existence of G-d or His reasons for salvation. If we stuck to empirical data only, Y'shua would only be a historical figure who was crucified for treason...
might want to rethink that one just a tad D

No, blind faith is what gets people to kill for their country without cause. Blind faith is what gets people to blow themselves up in crowded streets. Well-reasoned faith balances knowledge against possibility and hope, and allows for things like the belief in God without the belief in a global flood that somehow completely escaped evidence. Well-reasoned faith is what we all should have. Blind faith is only harmful.

And again, you have no idea of my background....or my education level. How I *CHOOSE* to write and speak and the reasons why are my business.

You're right, I don't know what your education was like, which is why I was guessing at what might have happened. What I do know is that somewhere along the line you managed to either convince yourself or be convinced that the Big Bang is nonsense, despite being incredibly well-evidenced and supported by nearly the entire scientific community. That's a problem.

besides, just 'cause all my friends go jump off a bridge doesn't mean I'm going to

No, that would be dumb. But I'm not asking you to jump off a bridge. I'm asking you to give the consensus of the scientific community an actual chance.

**added**
This: Sounds ironically familiar...different flavoring...but reminiscent of:

I promise you all of this education...if you will just give up your ignorance...

scarey D...really scarey...

But...I'm not asking you to worship me, or to worship science, or to worship anything but God. I just think it'd be a good idea for you to critically examine something that you've never critically examined before, because there's a really good chance that you'll start to understand what you're seeing. Your faith won't be in any danger unless you let your faith be in danger, and you seem like the sort of person whose faith is plenty strong enough not to waver while learning about something.

 

[Gwenyfur]

be that as it may Dannager...I'm not changing my premise...
YEC...G-d's Torah remains true and inviolate...infallible...
G-d said more than once throughout the Tanakh that He created the world in 6 days...He references the Flood in more than one place...take the Tanakh as a whole and it's all there...in or out of context...

I don't have to be able to prove it scientifically, or to believe scientists on what I take as a matter of faith...period.

G-d said it...that's 'nuff for me

And no...you aren't asking me to worship you...but you are asking me to take the word of men (who weren't there at the beginning) over the words of G-d...who was ... bottom line is...NOT gonna happen

 

[Assyrian]

the belief that we will keep on evolving getting smarter, stronger, better, faster etc...until one day we will be as gods ourselves...humans are gods etc...

same line as Satan used on Eve....and still just as effective...

...pity isn't it

This evolving into gods thing, it sound more Gene Roddenberry than Darwin.

 

[Gwenyfur]

This evolving into gods thing, it sound more Gene Roddenberry than Darwin.

Does it really matter....they're both dead...

 

[Assyrian]

So is Moses.

 

[Mallon]

G-d said more than once throughout the Tanakh that He created the world in 6 days...

So is an "immovable" earth, the "pillars of the earth", and the "windows of heaven"...

I fear we are beating a dead horse, though.

 

[Dannager]

G-d said it...that's 'nuff for me

Unfortunately what God said and what you're hearing are two different things.

And no...you aren't asking me to worship you...but you are asking me to take the word of men (who weren't there at the beginning) over the words of G-d...who was ... bottom line is...NOT gonna happen

But the people who wrote the Bible weren't there in the beginning, either. And the scientists have a better understanding of what went on in the beginning than those who wrote the Bible did, to be sure. So I'm afraid even that rationalization on your part doesn't make much sense.

 

[Gwenyfur]

So is Moses.

G-d is not It was His law that was recorded...not Moses'

 

[Gwenyfur]

Unfortunately what God said and what you're hearing are two different things.

ummm me kan reade

But the people who wrote the Bible weren't there in the beginning, either. And the scientists have a better understanding of what went on in the beginning than those who wrote the Bible did, to be sure. So I'm afraid even that rationalization on your part doesn't make much sense.

ah...but there again, the entirely of the Tanakh is *inspired* by G-d...men just held the pens

 

[Mallon]

One of my greatest inspirations when it comes to art is Douglas Henderson. Does this mean that when I put my paint brush to the canvas, it's really Doug Henderson doing the painting?
Does the Bible actually state anywhere that God literally took control over the authors' pens?

 

[shernren]

So is an "immovable" earth, the "pillars of the earth", and the "windows of heaven"...

I fear we are beating a dead horse, though.

True. But if we use a big enough stick, and hit hard enough, I suppose the horse might still have some mileage left in it.

We'll see.