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Preterist

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EchoPneuma

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EchoPneuma
Wow you really would have been kicked out with all this heresy! :p

Yep, so I decided to leave on good terms. Why destroy a lifetime of good friends and a good name over something like that.



got it. It may be a bit different here, there is another church that i know here that preaches the full preterist view (the pastor loves it!).
There are only a few very 'tight' baptist churches around here, the main are a bit more flexable now, which is good (not the the preterist point though!).

Down here in the South the fundies flourish....I think it's the beer and donuts...or maybe the BBQ.:D

Yeah i have been reading a couple of threads around here about that... i can see how that fits in with Gods loving nature (since He is love) but how does it fit in with Him giving us free will? Also the places where it says you have to confess Him as Lord with your mouth etc... and what about the parable of the vine and the branches and all that? I know some verse may hint at Him wanting all saved but there seem to be more that dont. Im not trying to change your mind, im just asking some questions for me... i think its always good to be thinking and be challanged etc

It's would require a whole new debate to get into those issues. Suffice to say, that after a lifetime of believing n eternal torment, only God Himself could change my mind about it. I used to debate on this very forum AGAINST universalism and I used all those arguments that you suggest. Simply speaking....God opened my eyes to the whole of the bible speaking of a "restitution and reconciliation of ALL THINGS"....and how that was the ultimate plan of God from start to finish....and that man and his free will MAY be able to RESIST that plan....but won't be able to thwart it....and how the belief in an ETERNAL hell rests on the mistranslation of one four letter greek word AION and it's adjective AIONION...which are translated in our bibles as "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever and ever"....when they shouldn't be. I never saw these things before and I resisted them at first because I was debating other men....but once God began to nettle my spirit about it and convict me that I was "kicking against the goads"....I could only resist for so long.

Honestly, I had to decide if I loved my pastorship, church and position more than God's truth.....

I get where you are comming from here too, but if God is compleatly in control (He is)

Yes, He's completely in control.


then as if He couldnt make it, and keep it infallible (thats if He wanted to do)

THat's the key. If He wanted to. I don't believe He did. I believe it's been MEN who have lifted the book up to a status that God never intended it to be. If God had really wanted to preserve His "word" in an inerrant and infallible form, then He would have preserved the ORIGINAL writings of the apostles....but instead He allowed ALL OF THEM to be destroyed......and the absolutel oldest copy of the NT that is in existence is from the 3rd century AD....over 100 years after the events....and with no originals to compare it to, we don't really know if it's actually anywhere even close to what the apostles penned at the end of the first century....alot of corruption and errors can creep into an ancient text in 100 years...and as early as the end of the 2nd century the early church writers were already complaining about the writings of the apostles being corrupted by zealous christians extrapolating the texts by editing and additions.

So, I don't have any faith in a book any longer...I have faith in God alone. The book is a ancient testimony which may OR MAY NOT be accurate. If a person wants to take it on faith that it IS accurate, then that is a personal decision which is based, not on facts, but on faith. For it to be based on FACT, there would have to be originals from the apostles that still existed so that what we have could be compared to them and determine the accuracy of it....without those originals....it's a guess.

...and I don't believe the bible is the "word of God" because even the bible says that Jesus is the "Word of God" that was made flesh....and that GOd would write His "Word" in our hearts and minds....not in a book by the hands of men.

That's just some of the reasons I changed my belief about it....among others.

BLessings....

,
its just so well done and perfectly ties everything together that it cant have any fault (except for the NIV :D).

I don't see it that way anymore. I see many contradictions and things that I don't believe are true. I believe that it is the "Living Word" that is in our heart that will guide us into all truth....not a book that is taught and interpreted by men called "pastors" (and I was one)....but by Christ who is to be our only teacher.
 
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EchoPneuma

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I have one question, Do preterists also believe in universal salvation?

I have been reading the archives and I haven't come across that topic yet.

Being a universalist is not part and parcel with being a preterist. There are some preterists who still consider universalism as heresy....and there are some like me.

It's an individual thing....and not even all preterists believe the same thing. THere's partial and full preterism. It really is a very personal thing between you and God. Read, study, pray, research and debate....but in the end....allow ONLY God to tell you what to believe. Take everything before Him and ask "what is the truth"?.....and He will allow the truth to settle into your spirit like a bird settling down into a nest...and you will have peace about it like you've never had before.

(Sorry, I'm preachin' huh?) ;)

Blessings....
 
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EchoPneuma

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hmmm... do you know how long the destruction of Jerusalem went for at 70AD?

7 years....from AD 66 to AD 73...with the destruction of the temple coming at the 3 !/2 year mark. It took another 3 years for Masada to fall....and that was the end. The Jews still call it the "Seven years of tribulation";)
 
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Kimberlyann

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Being a universalist is not part and parcel with being a preterist. There are some preterists who still consider universalism as heresy....and there are some like me.

It's an individual thing....and not even all preterists believe the same thing. THere's partial and full preterism. It really is a very personal thing between you and God. Read, study, pray, research and debate....but in the end....allow ONLY God to tell you what to believe. Take everything before Him and ask "what is the truth"?.....and He will allow the truth to settle into your spirit like a bird settling down into a nest...and you will have peace about it like you've never had before.

(Sorry, I'm preachin' huh?) ;)

Blessings....

I don't mind your preachin. ;) I actually like it. :)

I don't want to jump in and say I'm a preterist, because I'm still learning about it. The more I learn the more it makes sense to me.

It's like you said, it settles nicely within my spirit.
 
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EchoPneuma

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I don't mind your preachin. ;) I actually like it. :)

Hey...counting you that makes ONE. ;)

I don't want to jump in and say I'm a preterist, because I'm still learning about it. The more I learn the more it makes sense to me.

No reason to be hasty in your acceptance of a doctrine. Take your time and pray it through.

BTW, it made sense to me too....and verses of the bible that NEVER made sense to me suddenly fell into place like a puzzle....and to finally be able to say "Jesus meant just EXACTLY what He said"....rather than "Well, I know what it looks like Jesus said here, but that's not what He meant"....and then to have to try to explain away what He says and reinterpret verses to fit into a futurist belief system.....is the best thing ever.

It's like you said, it settles nicely within my spirit.

God will bear witness with your spirit to what is the truth.....no man can give himself peace, only God can give you peace...and when you have peace from God about what it is you're believing....then that is your witness. If it's wrong, you will have static in your spirit and it won't settle in....God won't let it. :thumbsup:
 
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Emma!

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Yep, so I decided to leave on good terms. Why destroy a lifetime of good friends and a good name over something like that.

Sounds like a wise move

Suffice to say, that after a lifetime of believing n eternal torment, only God Himself could change my mind about it. I used to debate on this very forum AGAINST universalism and I used all those arguments that you suggest. Simply speaking....God opened my eyes to the whole of the bible speaking of a "restitution and reconciliation of ALL THINGS"....and how that was the ultimate plan of God from start to finish....and that man and his free will MAY be able to RESIST that plan....but won't be able to thwart it....and how the belief in an ETERNAL hell rests on the mistranslation of one four letter greek word AION and it's adjective AIONION...which are translated in our bibles as "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever and ever"....when they shouldn't be. I never saw these things before and I resisted them at first because I was debating other men....but once God began to nettle my spirit about it and convict me that I was "kicking against the goads"....I could only resist for so long.

hmmm, been thinking and praying about this.... i think i would have to go read the Bible in this context (which i have started to do)... im not sure that it fits... but as i said it would fit with Gods nature... but im not sure that it fits with His word. I would like it to be true, doesnt make it true though :sorry: I looked up those words in greek and these are the definitions that i got:
Aion:
  1. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
    [*] for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
    [*] the worlds, universe
    [*] period of time, age
    [/FONT]
A[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]ionios:
[/FONT]
  1. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
    [*] without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
    [*] without beginning
    [*] without end, never to cease, everlasting
    [/FONT]
The top one doesnt necc. mean for ever (although it can) but it was the bottom one that was used in the context of 'eternal pit of fire' in matthew etc... so im not sure what you mean here with these being translated wrong, are these the def. that you got?

I totally agree that its God that brings revelation and peace about things like this.

Honestly, I had to decide if I loved my pastorship, church and position more than God's truth.....

I do admire you for being so faithful to Him and following what He was telling you, it must have been so hard to do, having a church etc. what an inspirational testimony.

THat's the key. If He wanted to. I don't believe He did. I believe it's been MEN who have lifted the book up to a status that God never intended it to be. If God had really wanted to preserve His "word" in an inerrant and infallible form, then He would have preserved the ORIGINAL writings of the apostles....but instead He allowed ALL OF THEM to be destroyed......and the absolutel oldest copy of the NT that is in existence is from the 3rd century AD....over 100 years after the events....and with no originals to compare it to, we don't really know if it's actually anywhere even close to what the apostles penned at the end of the first century....alot of corruption and errors can creep into an ancient text in 100 years...and as early as the end of the 2nd century the early church writers were already complaining about the writings of the apostles being corrupted by zealous christians extrapolating the texts by editing and additions.

So, I don't have any faith in a book any longer...I have faith in God alone. The book is a ancient testimony which may OR MAY NOT be accurate. If a person wants to take it on faith that it IS accurate, then that is a personal decision which is based, not on facts, but on faith. For it to be based on FACT, there would have to be originals from the apostles that still existed so that what we have could be compared to them and determine the accuracy of it....without those originals....it's a guess.

...and I don't believe the bible is the "word of God" because even the bible says that Jesus is the "Word of God" that was made flesh....and that GOd would write His "Word" in our hearts and minds....not in a book by the hands of men.

Yeah i understand where you are comming from here, we have researched the differences between the different translations are some translations even leave out whole chunks (even in the Lords prayer)... so those sort of things are there no doubt. I do think as a whole it is still the same... and as for the slight word changes (that can make a big difference) thats why things like Wuest and the original text are handy ;)

I see many contradictions and things that I don't believe are true. I believe that it is the "Living Word" that is in our heart that will guide us into all truth....not a book that is taught and interpreted by men called "pastors" (and I was one)....but by Christ who is to be our only teacher.

I dont think there are controdictions or as a whole anything in there is untrue, but i do agree that it is the Spirit of God that we need to rely on because He brings all revelation and it is by Him that we are lead into all truth.

Bless you
 
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Emma!

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7 years....from AD 66 to AD 73...with the destruction of the temple coming at the 3 !/2 year mark. It took another 3 years for Masada to fall....and that was the end. The Jews still call it the "Seven years of tribulation";)

Thanks, some of the things that you have said have really got me thinking. Esp where everything now fits in, in the light of the preterist view.... like how much of the Bible was talking about 'hell' as during this destruction time.... all so interesting.

When you look at the futurist view it really sound quite silly... and horrific (to be honest).
 
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Hidden Manna

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Hey thanks for your post... i would need to look into all the timing some more in this (preterist) context... regardless of the timing of it all though, the principals and fruits of all the 'third day' teaching would not change.

Also the third day isnt based just on that verse, it is all thoughout the Bible, for example the things that i posted i could quote all day on verses to back them.

Something else to think on though, im still wading through all the preterist stuff...


Your right there Emma, I remember now more about the third day in my studies. Like when God told the people in the wilderness to be ready for the third day which was the day God gave them the 10 commandments.

In my studies I considered the getting ready with the bridle making herself ready for the coming of the Lord in the book of Revelation.

There must be some more on this third day stuff but I was never aware of any group out there that taught it. I just happened to stumble across it just before I became a preterist and was writting a book which I called The Revealation of Jesus Christ through the Manifested Sons of God.

Believe it or not I was a Seventh Day Adventist for 12 years at the time, but before SDAism I had 14 years beening involved with people who were in the Latter Rain Movement which began in North Battleford Saskatchewan Canada. I was born just 75 miles away from there.
 
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Emma!

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Your right there Emma, I remember now more about the third day in my studies. Like when God told the people in the wilderness to be ready for the third day which was the day God gave them the 10 commandments.

In my studies I considered the getting ready with the bridle making herself ready for the coming of the Lord in the book of Revelation.

There must be some more on this third day stuff but I was never aware of any group out there that taught it. I just happened to stumble across it just before I became a preterist and was writting a book which I called The Revealation of Jesus Christ through the Manifested Sons of God.

Believe it or not I was a Seventh Day Adventist for 12 years at the time, but before SDAism I had 14 years beening involved with people who were in the Latter Rain Movement which began in North Battleford Saskatchewan Canada. I was born just 75 miles away from there.

:wave:
Its not so much to do with dates and what we need to do etc... but more to do with the realness (if thats even a word) and the fullness of Christ in us and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in fullness. I will PM you a link...
Bless you!
 
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Emma!

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There must be some more on this third day stuff but I was never aware of any group out there that taught it.

Yes there is, there is an 'alliance' of churches from around the world that have all connected and who believe and teach the third day, our church is part of this and has connected and knows many others that believe this including those in america.
 
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Seeker42

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Emma,

The thing that holds me back from what I call Neo-Preterism (because Classical Preterism didn't try and fit every little thing before 70 ad - read J.S. Russell) is trying to fit the Millennium in basically a 40 year span.

How can the ones who refused the mark of the beast reign with him from 30 ad to 70 ad when the beast and it's mark didn't even come around until probably the late 60s?

That's just one thing that holds me back.

Seeker
 
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EchoPneuma

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I don't believe the 1000 years was a literal 1000 years. Remember, a day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is like a day to God. Perhaps this 1000 years was simply one day....or taking Jewish gematria into account, perhaps it symbolized perfection of reign instead of length of reign. !0 was the number of perfection and in order to emphasize a concept the Jews would multiply numbers over and over....like 666 and 777 etc. ....so 10X10X10 = 1000 .....maybe 10 to the 3rd power because 10 means perfection and 3 symbolized the Trinity. There are a number of ways of looking at that number besides a literal 1000 years....which I DO NOT believe it meant.
 
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Hidden Manna

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Emma,

The thing that holds me back from what I call Neo-Preterism (because Classical Preterism didn't try and fit every little thing before 70 ad - read J.S. Russell) is trying to fit the Millennium in basically a 40 year span.

How can the ones who refused the mark of the beast reign with him from 30 ad to 70 ad when the beast and it's mark didn't even come around until probably the late 60s?

That's just one thing that holds me back.

Seeker

Personally I believe that the mark of the beast was there before the late 60's. Perhaps began shortly after the Holy Spirit filled them in the upper room.

The problems with the traditional view of the mark of the beast.

The first thing one must understand about Revelation is that it is a book composed almost entirely of symbols that a first century Jew would have found immediately recognizable. These symbols were used before in such books as Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah.

When a “mark” is spoken of, it should bring to mind a previous reference to a mark, found in another place in the Old Testament. The “mark” received upon the right hand or the forehead, is a Jewish typological picture (as is virtually all of Revelation), not to a “physical” mark on a persons body, but to the fact that in Jewish thought form (which is where John was coming from).

But how did one, receive “the mark” and what did it mean in Jewish thought?

It means that those who “took the mark” willingly, on their “right hand” (the Jewish picture of action and power), did whatever they did willingly for Rome, and they acted in accordance with that ungodly religious system (Pantheism).

The “mark” on the foreheads, was referring to the fact that Rome and their ideologies/ religions etc, were controlling their “minds and thoughts” of those who willingly followed this mind set, like we see in (Luke 19:14) But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, “We will not have this man to reign over us.’

And in (John 19:15) But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!” And in (John 11:47-48) Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, “What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.” The original audience factor cannot be overlooked.

Every emperor represented the beast while in power, and, therefore, demanded allegiance (taking the mark, symbolically). Apostate Judaism enforced allegiance to Rome as John later stated: “We have no king but Caesar!” Those who did not bow to this evil alliance are those who, rather, received the ‘mark’ of the Spirit of Life.

It is a perfect picture of this action as seen above. in John. This is the biblical meaning of the “mark of the beast.” Those who “took the mark” in the foreheads, were referring to the fact that Rome and their ideologies/religions etc, were controlling the minds and thoughts of those who willingly followed this mind set. All the Jews understood this typological picture.

Since John was a Jew he used numerous Jewish allusions out of the Old Testament in his book of Revelation. John writes in Greek, he thinks in Hebrew, and the thought has naturally affected the vehicle of express.” The same language of John’s Revelation when a “mark” is spoken of, should bring to mind a previous reference to a “mark” found in Ezekiel 9:3-6. In that context, Jerusalem was also about to be besieged and destroyed (by the Babylonians). The Lord commanded an angel to place “a mark on the foreheads” of those that lamented the wickedness of the city. This angel is described as having “a writer’s inkhorn at his side” (9:3), with which he was to mark the righteous.

It is clear from the context that this was not to be taken literally, as if an angel needed to carry a pen around with him and an inkhorn in which to dip it. This was a figurative (symbolic) way of showing that there was a specific class of people within the doomed city that were being set apart for preservation (9:6).

In Revelation, a similar “mark” is placed on those whom God wishes to preserve (7:3, 14:1). A “mark” is also received by those loyal to the beast, one which sets them apart for destruction (14:9-11). The mark is an emblem of ownership (John 19:14-15.) When interpreting any book of the Bible, it is important to ascertain the audience to which it was originally directed.

First, in Revelation we have clear evidence that John is writing to particular, historic, individual churches that existed in his day. Revelation 1:4 provides a common salutation: “John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come.” In verse 11 he specifically names the seven churches to whom he speaks: “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.” We know these names to be those of historical cities containing literal churches existing in the first century.

Second, we learn that John wrote to those churches in order to be understood. The first sentence of John’s prophecy has become the title of the entire work. And from that title we are clearly told that his work was to be a “revelation.” The Greek word for “revelation” is apokalupsis, which means an “opening up, uncovering.” John intended his book to be an opening up of divine truth for his original audience. He wrote to reveal, not to conceal truth.

And we must allow Scripture to interpret itself whenever possible.
Daniel describes the four beasts (Babylon, Greece, Medo-Persia, and Rome) as the beasts of the sea: And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. (Daniel 7:3) It was during the time of this fourth empire that God’s eternal kingdom was to be established (Daniel 7:18,22,27).

By the way the mark of the beast was the mark of a certain individual (Rev. 13:18) not just the Roman Empire in general. The mark of the beast was to happen right before AD 70 The first “clue” for us to examine is Revelation 13:18, which says: “Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.”

We must remember that John is writing from the isle of Patmos, where he has been imprisoned. John wrote his message in “code” lest his captors understand his reference to the emperor. Instead of openly stating who the “Beast” was, he left the original audience a clue that every Hebrew could easily discern.

In ancient times, alphabets served a two-fold purpose. Letters functioned not only as phonetic symbols, but as numerals, as well. The Arabic numeral system, which we use today, was a later development.

Throughout the ancient world, we find the practice of using the numerical value of a name, as a sort of cryptogram.

The Hebrew spelling of the name Nero Caesar was NRWN QSR (represented here by English letters). The sum of these numbers, which match each Hebrew letter, add up precisely to 666 as follows:

N = 50 R = 200 W = 6 N =50 Q = 100 S = 60 R = 200

Is this a coincidence? Or was John sending a message to his readers, which they could have calculated with relative ease? Another interesting factor to consider is what is called the “textual variant.” If you consult a Bible with marginal references you will find something quite intriguing. Regarding Revelation 13:18, your reference may say something to the effect: “Some manuscripts read 616.” The fact is that the number 666 in some ancient manuscripts is actually changed to 616, but why? Was it changed by accident or intentionally? The numbers 666 and 616 are not even similar in appearance—whether spelled out in words or written in numerals. As textual scholars agree, it must be intentional by an early copyist.

John, a Jew, used a Hebrew spelling of Nero’s name in order to arrive at the number 666 with fits (John 19:15) The second major “clue” John gives us is found in Revelation 17:9-10, which declares: “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.”

Most New Testament scholars recognize that the seven mountains represent the famous Seven Hills of Rome. The Seven Hills of Rome are mentioned time and again by both ancient pagan and Christian writers.

The ten horns, with the crowns, are in reference to the ten empirical provinces of Rome. In Revelation 13:1 John notes that he “saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads”. Revelation 17:10 specifically notes that the seven heads represent “seven kings.” Thus, the Beast is generically portrayed as a kingdom.

Who was this “sixth king”? Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian of that period, clearly points out that Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome, and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. The sixth was none other than Nero (see Antiquities, books 18 & 19). This is also confirmed by Roman historians, Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars) and Dio Cassius (Roman History V).

In addition, John states, “the other has not yet come” (the seventh), “and when he comes, he must remain a little while.” Following Nero came Galba, who reigned less than seven months.

Now here are my new questions. (1) Were in the book of Revelation does John say his mark of the beast was to take place pass the individual who was the sixth or seventh Caesar in his day?

(2) Where is the scripture were John says his mark was not a Jewish typological picture of the Jews in his day previous reference to a “mark” found in Ezekiel 9:3-6.
(3) John tell us the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.”

Who are these seven kings buy these names today? Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. The sixth was none other than Nero (see Antiquities, books 18 & 19). This is also confirmed by Roman historians, Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars) and Dio Cassius (Roman History V).

In addition, John states, “the other has not yet come” (the seventh), “and when he comes, he must remain a little while.” Following Nero came Galba, who reigned less than seven months.
Just who in our day are these seven kings buy these names?
 
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Hidden Manna

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I don't believe the 1000 years was a literal 1000 years. Remember, a day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is like a day to God. Perhaps this 1000 years was simply one day....or taking Jewish gematria into account, perhaps it symbolized perfection of reign instead of length of reign. !0 was the number of perfection and in order to emphasize a concept the Jews would multiply numbers over and over....like 666 and 777 etc. ....so 10X10X10 = 1000 .....maybe 10 to the 3rd power because 10 means perfection and 3 symbolized the Trinity. There are a number of ways of looking at that number besides a literal 1000 years....which I DO NOT believe it meant.


The Preterist 1000 years

The Preterist generally takes the position that the “Thousand Years” or Millennium is that 40 year transition period between 26 A.D (Christ’s ministry) and 66 A.D. (The beginning of the Jewish War). The Millennium is marked by the binding of Satan in Christ’s earthly ministry and consummated in the destruction of Jerusalem. This was that period when the Old Covenant was dying as the New Covenant was maturing. The New Covenant finally reached it’s fullness at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. when the Lord came in judgment and rewarded those faithful saints who were eagerly awaiting His Parousia (Matt. 16:27-28). This marks the passing away of the old “Heavens and Earth” (Rev. 21/Old Covenant) and the bringing in of the “New Heavens and Earth” (Rev.22/New Covenant).

The New Covenant is an everlasting covenant that will never end. Satan was defeated (Rom 16:20), death (spiritual) was destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26) and complete salvation accompanied Christ at his second coming (Hebrews 9:28).

The “Thousand Years” is to be understood as a perfect number of years rather than a quantitative amount of years. The “end” or “last days” marked the end of old covenant Israel or the “last days” of the sacrificial system and the beginning of the new covenant Church. The Bible speaks about the “time of the end” and NOT the “end of time”. There is a BIG difference.

You need to get a copy of Ed Stevens audio tape series concerning “The Thousand Years”. You will find that this was a very big topic amongst the Hebrew Rabbi of the first century. Ed documents this very well. In studying Midrash and the Mishnah you will find many first century Rabbi referring to this period as “The days of Messiah”. This was a BIG topic of the day. They called this period “The Thousand Years” because many Rabbi thought that it might be a literal 1000 years but no longer. Many though, believed that this was a 40 year period and reflected the 40 year wilderness wandering of Israel. So, it came to be known as “The Thousand Years” doctrine. A first century Jew has a much better grasp on these things than a 20th century western individual. The Hebrew culture has much symbolism when dealing with prophetic literature.

The later version of the 1000 years came about through the Roman Catholic Church which reigned for app. 1000 years during the dark ages which leaned towards a partial preterist view at the time.

Personally I believe in the first view above which is the full Preterist view
 
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Seeker42

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I don't believe the thousand years is literal either, but I certainly don't believe it was 40 years.

The Rabbis believed many, many things back in the first century and preceding (including the idea of two Messiahs). They were wrong much more than they were right. Just because an idea was around, doesn't make it right.

Even J.S. Russell did not believe the 1000 years were complete. There is another author - Dr. Duncan McKenzie, he agrees with J.S. Russell that the 1000 years probably began at 70 a.d.

The 1000 years is not literal, but it is figurative of completion, perfection, and a long time.

Seeker
 
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EchoPneuma

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Seeker, yes that is another view that has some merit too. It's not really clear exactly what the 1000 years represents...as you can see there are various ideas even from the preterist perspective. I would definitely say that it refers to perfection of the reign of Christ rather than duration of the reign of Christ....

and also Revelation says "when the thousand years are OVER the devil is released"....so it couldn't mean an eternal period of time because it DOES come to an end.

I haven't personally come down on either side of the fence on what it signifies...except that I know it doesn't mean a literal 1000 years that is to occur at some time in the future.
 
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