Ever been a part of a Jewish observance?

[Trish1947]

I think that we are all missing each other here.

I am under the impression that we are no longer under the law...so how could we put ourselves back under the law by performing a ceremony that reverences God? Do you realize that we are under Grace? No matter what we do, we can't change that--we reside in New Covenant times, under the New Covenant. The New Covenant applies to us, NOT the old!

I think that there are some here who are being deceived into thinking that we can be forced back under the law. We can't, though--this is merely a deception. Their fear is unfounded.

We're ALL under Grace, whether we realize it, refuse to accept it, or accept it; Jew or gentile!

Under Grace is where we reside--as recipients of the New Covenant promise that God and Jesus made with each other!

Am I missing something here?!

Oh, but it's not that easy at a Synogogue. You might still have your liberty in Christ, but they still struggle with it night and day, to the point of uplifting the Book of Torah, above the one that brought the Word. I have been to a Messianic Synogogue, in alot of their minds, the Torah, was first, then Christ, now that He's gone back to Heaven, the Torah can become a stumbling block to them still. Which laws to keep, which ones not to keep, is this of value anymore, should we keep the whole law, it's a stuggle as they search whats lawful and what doesn't apply. They are trying to find that liberty in Christ, without giving up the written law. They stuggle to realize, that it's now written in their hearts. But they go back to Torah, and all the laws. It's very hard now that the law has a different application. The law to love one another, really conflicts with following the written law, out of obediance. The law to love one another is something that Christ put into us, to make us new creatures, therefore fulfilling what the written law was unable to do for us. The written law of obediance doesn't make us new creatures.

 

[stone]

-snip-

 

[God_Owned]

I don't think we know the same thing, but I do think your Catholic leanings are once again showing.

Acts 21:26

Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.


Note 8 at Acts 21:26: Here begins the story of some of the most difficult scriptures in Acts to understand. Paul had become God's champion of grace, opening the door of salvation to the Gentiles. Six or seven years prior to this (Acts 15), Paul had successfully argued before the elders of the church that keeping the law was not a requirement for salvation. James and the other elders agreed with him and put their conclusions in writing (Acts 15:20, 29).

Now, in an apparent reversal of his hard fought victories, Paul seeks to prove to the Jews that he is not against the law of Moses by performing a vow (probably Nazarite-Num. 6) and paying for four other men to do the same. He had refused to make concessions like this before (Gal. 2:3-5). This looks like a compromise on Paul's part and has caused some to speculate that all the trouble that Paul encountered in Jerusalem and his subsequent years of imprisonment were all his fault or even worse, God's punishment on him for surrendering to the Jews demands.

When you combine this with the prophecies that Paul received on his way to Jerusalem (see note 4 at Acts 21:4, p. ???; note 2 at Acts 21:11, p. ???), then the evidence seems overwhelming that this was a major mistake if not an outright act of disobedience on Paul's part.

Even if this was the case, we can at least say that this illustrates Paul's extreme love for the Jews that he spoke of in Rom. 9:1-3. If he did err, it was his love for others that got him in trouble. Most of us would be blessed to have faults such as that.

It can be said for sure that Paul was not performing this act of the law for the purpose of seeking to be justified with God. Paul made it abundantly clear in his teachings that anyone who sought to be justified by the works of the law, had fallen from grace (Gal. 5:4). That was certainly not the case with him.

Paul had already written that there was nothing wrong with still observing rituals of the law as long as it was understood that they were only symbolic (Rom. 14:1-7; Col. 2:16-17). It was only when people trusted in their performance of the rites of the law instead of Jesus that Paul had a problem. It was no doubt his intention to show these Jews through these actions that he also lived holy and was not a law breaker.

Although it takes some effort, it is possible to explain all of these events in a way that would not fault Paul but still have him in the perfect will of God. This seems like a more consistent interpretation of Paul's life and it would explain the noticeable lack of his confession of this as a sin or mistake in his later writings.

The Lord had not clearly communicated yet that the law had been abolished (2 Cor. 3:13; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 7:18). He tolerated it until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. (see note 4 at Lk. 19:43, p. 415), when it became impossible to perform many of the laws rituals. Therefore, it can be supposed that Paul was well within his limits to perform ceremonial rites of the law with the understanding that this was just formality to placate the Jews so they would listen to what he had to say.

 

[God_Owned]

Colossians 2:16

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Note 22 at Col. 2:16: If Colossians 2:14-16 were not true then we should all be Seventh Day Adventists. Only God can "blot out" what He has written (Lev. 11; Dt. 14). God told Israel to make a distinction between clean and unclean food so that He might make a distinction between Jews and Gentiles (Dt. 14:2, 21). Under the New Covenant however, the wall of partition that separated Jews from Gentiles has been broken down so that all may have equal access to God (Eph. 2:14-15, 18). God hears and answers prayers whether or not we've eaten pork or worshiped on a certain day.

Note 23 at Col. 2:16: This is in reference to the Old Testament laws concerning meats which could and could not be eaten. The definitive chapters concerming this in the Old Testament are Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14:1-21. Rabbits, camels, pigs, and other animals were forbidden among beasts of the field. Among the animals in the water, lobsters, shrimp, oysters and anything else that doesn't have scales or fins was considered unclean. In the bird kingdom, all birds that were scavengers were forbidden. Any animal that had paws was unclean and all creeping things such as snakes, snails, and turtles were unclean.
Although these dietary laws were strictly enforced in the Old Testament, Paul revealed in the New Testament that it was a doctrine of devils to command anyone to "abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:" (1 Tim. 4:3-4). Peter was shown in a vision that God had cleansed things which were considered unclean in the Old Testament (Acts 10:10-16, 28; see note 5 at Acts 10:16, p. 632). All these things were symbolic (see note 28 at v. 17, p. 1203).
Therefore, anyone who uses the Old Testament dietary laws for anything other than symbolism, which finds its complete fulfillment in Christ, is in error. Those who preach that the dietary laws were for health reasons are missing the point that Paul is making in these verses.

Note 24 at Col. 2:16: The "drink" that Paul is referring to here is a little ambiguous. There were drink offerings required in the Old Testament (Ex. 29:40-41; Lev. 23:13, 18, 37; Num. 28:7-15, 24, 31) but these were nearly always referred to as "drink offerings." The only other restrictions on what could be drunk are total abstinence of any drink made from grapes for those with a Nazarite vow (Num. 6) and a total ban on blood (Lev. 17:10-14).

Just as the other things listed in this verse, abstinence from certain drinks was symbolic and finds its New Testament fulfillment in Christ. The Old Testament abstinence pictured the separation described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:31.
Note 25 at Col. 2:16: In Leviticus 23, there were seven feasts listed which the Jews had to observe: (1) the feast of the Passover (vv. 4-5: see note 1 at Jn. 2:13, p. 88); (2) the feast of Unleavened Bread (vv. 6-8) which immediately followed the Passover and became part of the Passover feast; (3) the feast of Firstfruits (vv. 9-14); (4) the feast of Pentecost (vv. 15-21) which was also called the feast of weeks (Dt. 16:9-12); (5) the feast of Trumpets (vv. 23-25; Num. 29:1-6); (6) the day of Atonement (vv. 26-32; Lev. 16:29-34; Num. 29:7-11); and (7) the feast of Tabernacles (vv. 33-43; Num. 29:12-40; Dt. 16:13-15; see note 1 at Jn. 7:2, p. 281) which was also called the feast of Booths (Lev. 23:39-43).

It was mandatory for all males to come to Jerusalem to observe the feast of Unleavened Bread (which probably included the Passover), the feast of Firstfruits, and the feast of Ingathering, which was also called the feast of Tabernacles or Booths (Ex. 23:14-17).

The Jews later came to commemorate the feast of Purim (Est. 9:24-32) which celebrated Esther's victory over Haman and the feast of Dedication (see note 1 at Jn. 10:22, p. 338) which celebrated the re-purification of the temple under the Macabees.

Paul made it clear that the observance of holy days was an individual decision not to be imposed on others or forbidden to others (see note 3 at Gal. 4:10, p. 1073; see notes 8-9 at Rom. 14:5-6, p. 839).

Note 26 at Col. 2:16: There were burnt offerings to be made every new moon (1 Chr. 23:31). Some believe that Psalm 81:3 is linking the feast of Trumpets (see note 25 at this verse) to the seventh new moon offering, making that feast a new moon feast (Unger's Bib. Dict.).

Note 27 at Col. 2:16: Each of the five things listed in this verse was a shadow of Christ (see note 28 at v. 17, p. 1203). The dietary laws, feast days, new moon offerings and the sabbath all represented Christ and what He would accomplish (Heb. 4). Now that we have the person of Christ, each one of these things has now served its purpose and is no longer necessary to observe.

Most Christians agree with this regarding the first four things listed in this verse, but the sabbath is still proclaimed as a day that must be observed by many Christians. However, this is not so. The sabbath was a picture of a relationship with God that Jesus has now opened to all who believe. The sabbath was only a picture and is now fulfilled in Christ (see note 12 at Rom. 14:14, p. 842). See the list of footnotes listed in ref. l at this verse.

 

[God_Owned]

Romans 14:4

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.


Note 7 at Rom. 14:4: We are all servants, not judges. We should let the Lord be the judge. The only thing that we are supposed to judge is ourselves - that we aren't a stumbling block to anyone (v. 13).

 

[God_Owned]

Again, the Feasts, in and of themselves, are in no way a key to salvation. Salvation is ONLY throught the work of Christ. However, they were designed to point us to Christ and to teach us aspects of who He is. When kept in this way, they can be great resources to better understand the scriptures. Huge portions of scripture, especially the prophetic writings, are allusions to one aspect or another of the 7 Feasts. If one actually knows what the writer of the book was referring to, obviously one's understanding of the writers message is greatly enhanced. Jesus constantly referred to the Feasts (in fact, scripture even records His going to Jerusalem to celebrate Hanukah, aka "the Festival of Lights"). To fully understand what Jesus was talking about when explaining His ministry, one needs to know the Feasts.

You can know them without keeping them, and by so doing, exercise the law.

And, the easiest way to learn the Feasts is to actually celebrate them a couple of times. Not out of a legalistic mindset. Not as trying to earn something. But rather as a way to learn more about who Jesus is.

This is exercising the law and is wrong. It is also encouraging people to serve the law.

I can't tell you how many times I have had people come up to me at a Passover (and yes, I lead one each year) with tears in their eyes saying "I never realized______(fill in the blank)___" as they saw for the first time a new aspect of Christ's nature.

We aren't to celebrate Passover ether. We are to take Communion.

Like I said Catholic legalism is really coming out strong in your posts.


Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[FrankFaith]

I think that this was the OP...if I'm not mistaken...

I would really, really like to experience one of the Jewish holiday observances--I think it would be truly awesome--even to the level of being unforgettable or even lifechanging.

Have any of you ever experienced a Jewish observance? Please share!!

 

[pdudgeon]

for the last time...please remain on topic! any further straying will result in staff action.

 

[FrankFaith]

May I request that those who understand the intent of the OP (that we are firmly, inescapably under the New Covenant and that I am not advocating a misdirected life under the law in any way!) be allowed to continue making contributions to this thread in reference to the value of learning 'the Feasts', and such, as Father Rick has pointed out?

I make this request to weed out those who do not understand the intent here--NOT to weed out particular individuals' comments...although this does wind up to be one and the same thing, unfortunately. I do invite these individuals to contribute, however, should they come into understanding of my intent with the OP.

 

[PastorMike]

I think that we are all missing each other here.

I am under the impression that we are no longer under the law...so how could we put ourselves back under the law by performing a ceremony that reverences God? Do you realize that we are under Grace? No matter what we do, we can't change that--we reside in New Covenant times, under the New Covenant. The New Covenant applies to us, NOT the old!

I think that there are some here who are being deceived into thinking that we can be forced back under the law. We can't, though--this is merely a deception. Their fear is unfounded.

We're ALL under Grace, whether we realize it, refuse to accept it, or accept it; Jew or gentile!

Under Grace is where we reside--as recipients of the New Covenant promise that God and Jesus made with each other!

Am I missing something here?!

I am sorry, I really don't mean to be rude but... how can you say we are not under the law and don't want to be under the law and yet perfom the feasts that we ordained under the law... that really doesn't make any sense...

 

[PastorMike]

As someone who actually trained under a Chassidic rabbi, I'll throw out a few things here.

I don't really need to answer this post as you know where it will lead Rick and I don't want us to get into the whole catholic thing again... God bless bro... Mike.

 

[PastorMike]

May I request that those who understand the intent of the OP (that we are firmly, inescapably under the New Covenant and that I am not advocating a misdirected life under the law in any way!) be allowed to continue making contributions to this thread in reference to the value of learning 'the Feasts', and such, as Father Rick has pointed out?

I make this request to weed out those who do not understand the intent here--NOT to weed out particular individuals' comments...although this does wind up to be one and the same thing, unfortunately. I do invite these individuals to contribute, however, should they come into understanding of my intent with the OP.

This is my last post on the subject bro, I will not be answering any more posts...

Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law and all the OT sacrifices and feasts... We as believers don't need to put ourselves back under a system that didn't even work... it didn't work for the Jews, these things were only a temporary measure until Christ was revealed and if that is the case why would we want to go back under a system of feasts and sacrifies that were imperfect in the first place and didn't work...

As for the rest of the people posting here, you don't need to be ensnared by teaching or even suggestions that we should somehow be observing the feasts... it is an insult to the finished work of Christ to be going back and performing feasts that he fulfilled... God bless, Mike.

 

[Trish1947]

I think that this was the OP...if I'm not mistaken...

I would really, really like to experience one of the Jewish holiday observances--I think it would be truly awesome--even to the level of being unforgettable or even lifechanging.

Have any of you ever experienced a Jewish observance? Please share!!

I won't be posting anymore on the subject, but to say that what you said that it might even be life changing. Observing feasts, rituals, and laws is not capable of changing a life. That's why Jesus came to begin with.

 

[PastorMike]

I won't be posting anymore on the subject, but to say that what you said that it might even be life changing. Observing feasts, rituals, and laws is not capable of changing a life. That's why Jesus came to begin with.

Finally... someone with understanding... Trish you just hit the nail on the head... God bless you, Mike.

 

[FrankFaith]

I am sorry, I really don't mean to be rude but... how can you say we are not under the law and don't want to be under the law and yet perfom the feasts that we ordained under the law... that really doesn't make any sense...

Now THAT's a good question!

Just because it was lawful to observe these Feasts during the non-New Covenant times does not mean that it's lawful to observe them now--we're now under GRACE!

So we could also say that it is NOT unlawful whether we perform them today or not!

It seems to me that making something illegal that is bad for us is a good thing. What God had done through these Feasts was to make it lawful for His children to learn and repeat Truth about Him--without these Feasts, His children would forget that HE was good and they would wind up misled and dead. It was illegal to fail to observe the Feasts--and for good reason.

I understand that this is just another way to look at things, but it reminds us that God's not out to get us--He Loves us!

Does Scripture say anywhere that we are not to observe these Feasts by choice? As I understand it, No. In fact, it does not even prohibit anyone from observing them from a legalistic standpoint if they are unaware of their position under the New Covenant. Scripture only mentions that we are not to judge, or seek to enforce these observances on ourselves or each other under the New Covenant.

 

[FrankFaith]

Whoops--repeat!

 

[FrankFaith]

I am sorry, I really don't mean to be rude but... how can you say we are not under the law and don't want to be under the law and yet perfom the feasts that we ordained under the law... that really doesn't make any sense...

This is my last post on the subject bro, I will not be answering any more posts...

Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law and all the OT sacrifices and feasts... We as believers don't need to put ourselves back under a system that didn't even work... it didn't work for the Jews, these things were only a temporary measure until Christ was revealed and if that is the case why would we want to go back under a system of feasts and sacrifies that were imperfect in the first place and didn't work...

As for the rest of the people posting here, you don't need to be ensnared by teaching or even suggestions that we should somehow be observing the feasts... it is an insult to the finished work of Christ to be going back and performing feasts that he fulfilled... God bless, Mike.

I really don't know what to make of this--why do you keep saying that I am saying something that I am not saying?!

I AGREE with what you are saying--which makes what you're saying COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.

*What you're saying TRULY goes without saying--we're here on the WoF forum, remember?!

 

[FrankFaith]

I won't be posting anymore on the subject, but to say that what you said that it might even be life changing. Observing feasts, rituals, and laws is not capable of changing a life. That's why Jesus came to begin with.

When I used the term 'life changing', I used it as a metaphor. I can see that that was truly a poor choice of words!! I should have explained that watching a ceremony unfold that makes reference to the Character of God at every turn could really show the average secular Christian today just how blessed and Loved they are--God's chosen people have missed Jesus even after all of these years of repetition, yet God has opened OUR eyes and embraced US instead. We would be seeing just how much God Loves His chosen children through the ceremony, as we recognize that they are bound for a different destination should they not recognize Jesus.

We are so Blessed--realizing just how blessed could be...life changing!!

 

[pdudgeon]

could a possible difference in reasoning between Jews and Christians for the celebration of the feasts be one of motivation (on the part of the Jews) and increased knowledge and spiritual discernment (on the part of the Christians) ?

The Jews celebrate the feasts because they are still under the law and are commanded to do so by the law.

But Christians, being free from both the obligations and effects of the law, could voluntarily take part in the feasts in much the same way as historical reenactors do; to further understand those Jewish traditions.

 

[PastorMike]

I AGREE with what you are saying--which makes what you're saying COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.

Sorry I just couldn't help myself...

I am saying we should not observe the feasts... you are saying we should observe the feasts...

so tell me how is that saying the same thing?