Sign Petition to get Kent Hovind to do written discussion

[Pesto]

As I recall, you posted 3 aspects of a YEC from Wikipedia to me - saying something like "Yup - that's you" to each one.

But you stopped short of the 4th aspect.

I then quoted the 4th aspect back, which vindicated me.

Yes --- three out of four points makes me look YEC, but the fourth one outweighs the other three.

I'm not sure why it's important to you that I be a YEC. You're certainly showing a high degree of disrespect to me and my profile, and it bothered me at first, but I'm getting over it.

It can be confusing, though, to someone who doesn't know the difference between a YEC and a BEC.

You are a Bose-Einstein condensate?

 

[[serious]]

I'd sign this, but I find online petitions as dumb as hovind's arguments.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are a Bose-Einstein condensate?

LOL --- E=mc[sup]2[/sup]

I'll vouch for the fact that I'm square!

 

[[serious]]

Just because you fail to fit one aspect does not mean that it negates fitting the other three. Your just playing semantics.

I haven't read the exchange so I can't speak specifically about this, but generally failing to meat one criteria is enough to keep someone out of a specific group.

Example:
The requirements for first degree murder are
1. person is human
2. act was premeditated
3. act was deliberate
4. person caused the death of another person.

If any of these criteria are not met, the act is a different crime. (or not a crime at all)

Now, there can be concurent definitions of something, like with first degree murder which is also killing someone during a felony. However, you would still be expected to provide such a parallel definition to charge the person.

In other words, he's right in at least the general sense.

 

[Pesto]

LOL --- E=mc[sup]2[/sup]

I'll vouch for the fact that I'm square!

What exactly is a BEC? How does it differ from a YEC (young earth creationist)?

 

[Elduran]

I haven't read the exchange so I can't speak specifically about this, but generally failing to meat one criteria is enough to keep someone out of a specific group.

Example:
The requirements for first degree murder are
1. person is human
2. act was premeditated
3. act was deliberate
4. person caused the death of another person.

If any of these criteria are not met, the act is a different crime. (or not a crime at all)

Now, there can be concurent definitions of something, like with first degree murder which is also killing someone during a felony. However, you would still be expected to provide such a parallel definition to charge the person.

In other words, he's right in at least the general sense.

Yes, but in this case the requirements for being a young earth creationis are:

1) believe that the earth was created rather than formed naturally

2) believe that the creation event happened somewhere in the order of 10000 years ago

The general other tendencies included a disbelief in scientific techniques regarding age, specific religions to follow, etc. As you can see though, the actual requirements fit AV exactly, so he IS a YEC even though he denies it vigorously.

 

[Edx]

Its very simple. YEC = someone that bvelieves the earth was created about 6-10 thousand years ago. Thats what AV believes, therefore he is a YEC.

 

[AV1611VET]

What exactly is a BEC? How does it differ from a YEC (young earth creationist)?

I call myself a Biblical Earth Creationist --- for lack of a better term.

I'd admit it's ad hoc --- but it's a perfect fit.

When I first joined, I called myself a YEC --- Young Earth Creationist --- but it never did set well with me in light of the fact that the earth is so old, so I considered Old Earth Creationist, but that has "gaps" in it (pun intended), so I settled with Biblical Earth Creationist.

I believe this:

• The earth was created 6000 years ago, circa 4004 BC.
• The earth is at least millions of years old.
• The earth was created in 6 days.

It differs from YEC, in that YEC believes the earth was 0 years old on the day it was created, whereas I believe it was at least millions, if not billions, of years old - as radiometric dating testifies.

 

[Edx]

I'd admit it's ad hoc --- but it's a perfect fit.

And you dont think other Creationists think their beliefs are biblical? Wouldnt you say for them Biblical Earth Creationism is also a perfect fit? How so, then, is this really a meaningfull term?

• The earth was created 6000 years ago, circa 4004 BC.
• The earth is at least millions of years old.

Ya, these contradict. Something cant be millions of years old unless it has existed for millions of years. If it has only existed for 6,000 years, then it is only 6,000 years old. Very simple. Not sure why you have such a problem with this. Anyway, since you believe the earth was created 6,000 years ago you are by definion a YEC>

 

[Tomk80]

Which ties in nicely with another thread currently being played out. AV actually tries to redefine the meaning of 'age'.

Very, let's say, eccentric. I'm glad those people are around though. We need YEC-ists with as low a credibility as possible.

 

[Edx]

Which ties in nicely with another thread currently being played out. AV actually tries to redefine the meaning of 'age'.

Very, let's say, eccentric. I'm glad those people are around though. We need YEC-ists with as low a credibility as possible.

To be fair, they arent hard to find.

 

[Pats]

I'm sure he wont care, but I made this petition to get Hovind to engage in a written exchange:

http://www.petitiononline.com/khovind/petition.html

Anyone interested in truthfulness, whether 'creationist' or 'evolutionist' should be happy to sign it.

I suppose this might get him to either finally engage in one, or perhaps he will stop complaining that a such written debates are "useless" and "don't help anyone".

So sign away! Feel free to pass it around too.

Cheers,
-Chris

I singed it, TrueCreation, and thanks.

 

[Tomk80]

To be fair, they arent hard to find.

Unfortunately, that is very true. Especially amongst YEC, it doesn't seem to matter how idiotic the proposals are. They are never corrected by their own peers in any way. I guess that if you leave science at the door, anything goes.

 

[Pats]

Which ties in nicely with another thread currently being played out. AV actually tries to redefine the meaning of 'age'.

Very, let's say, eccentric. I'm glad those people are around though. We need YEC-ists with as low a credibility as possible.

Tom... are there any with credable arguements?

 

[Tomk80]

Tom... are there any with credable arguements?

No, but there are some that at least try.

 

[Pats]

No, but there are some that at least try.

When I was still YEC, I went to them for support and info... yes... but, in the end, their "science" isn't very scientific and you don't have to be a scientist to notice it either.

Personally, I feel the extreamely incredable ones just sound kwirky to everybody.

Pats

 

[[serious]]

I believe this:

• The earth was created 6000 years ago, circa 4004 BC.
• The earth is at least millions of years old.
• The earth was created in 6 days.

It differs from YEC, in that YEC believes the earth was 0 years old on the day it was created, whereas I believe it was at least millions, if not billions, of years old - as radiometric dating testifies.

"created with a history" does not end up at odds with creationism.

You just believe Adam had a navel...

 

[Tomk80]

When I was still YEC, I went to them for support and info... yes... but, in the end, their "science" isn't very scientific and you don't have to be a scientist to notice it either.

Personally, I feel the extreamely incredable ones just sound kwirky to everybody.

Pats

Do you not think that the extremely unbelievable ones also turn people away from those who try to uphold some credibility? It would in my case. It would make me twice as suspicious about the guys claiming the very same thing, only in a less quirky manner.

 

[shinbits]

Chris, are there still enough people out there who actually care what Hovind says or thinks? Even most of the YEC movements try to distance themselves from many of his "arguments" these days.

Seconded.

 

[AV1611VET]

And you dont think other Creationists think their beliefs are biblical?

Of course I think other Creationists think their beliefs are Biblical. I've studied them myself, and know the Biblical justification behind most of them.

Wouldnt you say for them Biblical Earth Creationism is also a perfect fit?

Yes --- for them.

How so, then, is this really a meaningfull term?

As in any man-made term, it codifies the beliefs supporting it, and simplifies the discussion. Rather than saying, for instance, "I'm a believer in A, B, and C" all the time; I simply say, "I'm a Republican".

I don't tell people my favorite Chess opening is: 1. P-K4, P-K4; 2. N-KB3 N-QB3; 3. B-N5 ...; I simply say it's the Ruy Lopez, and that's sufficient.