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Fulfilling the Torah

Steve Petersen

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Midrash
Midrash Rabbah - Exodus 30:22

22. Another explanation of NOW THESE ARE THE ORDINANCES. Both the heathen and Israel have judges, and you do not know what difference there is between both. It can be compared to a sick man whose doctor paid him a visit and then said to the family: ' Give him to eat whatever he wants.' When he came to the other, he left word: ' Take care not to let him eat that and that thing.' When he was asked, `The first, thou didst allow to eat whatever he wishes, and the second, thou didst forbid certain things,' his reply was: `The first has no chance of recovering; for this reason did I allow him to eat what he fancies; but the second will yet live and therefore did I command strict caution in his diet.' Similarly the heathen have judges, but neither study the Torah nor fulfil it, as it says, Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and ordinances whereby they should not live (Ezek.XX, 25),1 but with regard to the commandments it says, Which if a man do, he shall live by them (Lev. XVIII, 5).

Exodus Rabbah 40:1

R. Hoshaya said: Anyone who has knowledge but lacks the fear of sin, really has nothing, just as a carpenter who has no tools with him is not a real carpenter; because the bolts which guard learning are the fear of sin, as it says, And the fear of the Lord is its treasure-house (Isa. XXXIII, 6). R. Johanan said: If one knows the Torah but does not fulfil it, it were better for him that he had not been born,

Numbers Rabbah 3:12

He was called Kohath for this reason: You read: If the iron be blunt (Eccl. X, 10), which means, if you perceive that the heavens have become `blunt' and refuse to send down rain, having become like iron- as you read: 'And I will make your heaven as iron'-be assured that it is as a punishment for the non-observance of the Torah; for it is written, And one do not whet the edge (ib.), that is, because they did not fulfil the commandments of the Torah which was given to them by God face to face-as you read, The Lord spoke with you face to face, etc. (Deut. V, 4)

Numbers Rabbah 11:1
The wise shall inherit honour (Prov. III, 35) applies to Israel who are called wise when they fulfil the Torah and the commandments; as it says, Observe therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding, etc. (Deut. IV, 6)

Deuteronomy Rabbah 1:21

The Rabbis say: Moses declared before God: `Master of the Universe, just because the Gentiles have not been commanded to observe the Sabbath, wilt Thou show favour to them if they do observe it?' God replied to him: ' Do you really fear this? By your life, even if they fulfil all the commandments in the Torah, yet will I cause them to fall before you.' Whence this? Because the text says, BEHOLD, I HAVE BEGUN TO DELIVER UP BEFORE THEE.

Deuteronomy Rabbah 7:4

TO OBSERVE TO DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS (XXVIII, 1). R. Simeon b. Halafta said: If one learns the words of the Torah and does not fulfil them, his punishment is more severe than that of him who has not learnt at all.

Deuteronomy Rabbah 11:6

Halachah: When a Jew goes up to read the Law, he is not permitted to commence reading it before he has recited the blessings. First he must recite the blessings and then he reads. And thus Moses, when he had the privilege of receiving the Torah, first recited a blessing, and then he read it. R. Eleazar asked: What was the blessing which Moses recited before reading it? [It was], Blessed art Thou, O Lord, King of the Universe, who hast chosen this law and sanctified it and hast found pleasure in them who fulfil it. He did not say, ' in them that labour at it,' nor, ' in them who meditate in it,' but, ' in them that fulfil it,' that is to say, in them who carry out the words of the Torah.

Numbers Rabbah 10:8

For thus have the Sages said: Keep away from a small sin lest it lead you to a grievous one; run to fulfil a small commandment, for it will lead you to an important one.

Talmud
Chagigah 4b

Samuel went and brought Moses with him, Saying to him: Perhaps, Heaven forfend,21 I am summoned to Judgment: arise with me,22 for there is nothing that thou hast written in the Torah, which I did not fulfil.

Arachin 22a

R. Papa said: The paying of a debt is a commandment and [minor] orphans are not obliged to fulfil the commandment.

Mishnah
AVOT 4:9

R. JONATHAN SAID: WHOEVER FULFILS THE TORAH OUT OF [A STATE OF] POVERTY, HIS END [WILL BE] TO FULFIL IT OUT OF [A STATE OF] WEALTH; AND WHOEVER DISCARDS THE TORAH OUT OF [A STATE OF] WEALTH, HIS END [WILL BE] TO DISCARD IT OUT OF [A STATE OF] POVERTY.
 
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Mikhail

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Zemirah said:
Very thought-provoking, Steve. Thanks for posting it -- my hubby and I are discussing... this is helpful.

Yeah but the problem is that when Steve says Torah he includes the Rabbininical Oral Torah talmud, decrees of the Rabbi's etc this is exactly what Paul warned against about those that come in trying to intrude upon our freedom in Messiah. That is to grow in our obedience to the Written Torah of Moses and not some fiction that appeared after the Babylonians had introduced and corrupted the faith in YHVH with their Babylonian Legal System.

I am sure we will see in due time that this is all that Steve is about or is he a Rabbinical Jew masquerading (Hypocrite) as a Messianic Beleiver.
Shalom,
Mikhail
 
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ShirChadash

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Since you addressed my post, I will respond.

Mikhail said:
Yeah but the problem is that when Steve says Torah he includes the Rabbininical Oral Torah talmud
Like some others, I do not necessarily think one must avoid or dismiss out of hand all of "oral Torah" but rather glean the pearls and dismiss that which directly is in opposition to written Torah and the KN.


decrees of the Rabbi's etc this is exactly what Paul warned against about those that come in trying to intrude upon our freedom in Messiah.
I understand this is your view. Thank you for sharing it with me.

I am sure we will see in due time that this is all that Steve is about or is he a Rabbinical Jew masquerading (Hypocrite) as a Messianic Beleiver.
Shalom,
Mikhail
I think these are highly presumptive comments to make of another poster here, personal flaming, and entirely unnecessary.
 
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visionary

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Steve .... for a change of pace... could we get you to do a mini intro on our forum to help us understand where you are coming from... I personally am curious... while this thread has some great references I am glad you posted.... I fell out of sorts in responding as I do not have any idea where you are going with them.

Help us to get to know you better. We are actually quite nice here and would love to have you become part of our family if you are so inclined.
 
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Steve Petersen

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visionary said:
Steve .... for a change of pace... could we get you to do a mini intro on our forum to help us understand where you are coming from... I personally am curious... while this thread has some great references I am glad you posted.... I fell out of sorts in responding as I do not have any idea where you are going with them.

Help us to get to know you better. We are actually quite nice here and would love to have you become part of our family if you are so inclined.

Sorry for just blowing into town. I have been studying the NT and Rabbinics for 12 years on my own. The connections are so numerous as to be nearly overwhelming. I was trying to give you all a sample of the possibilities that exist for recreating the backdrop for the NT in order to understand it better.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Zemirah said:
Since you addressed my post, I will respond.

Like some others, I do not necessarily think one must avoid or dismiss out of hand all of "oral Torah" but rather glean the pearls and dismiss that which directly is in opposition to written Torah and the KN.


I understand this is your view. Thank you for sharing it with me.

I think these are highly presumptive comments to make of another poster here, personal flaming, and entirely unnecessary.

I came down pretty hard on Mikhail in another post.

Mikhail,

I hope you will accept a public apology from me for that. I was wrong for treating you that way.

Peace to you,

Steve
 
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Tishri1

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Steve I personally have enjoyed your posts immencely! I think your years of study will prove to be very educational to all here and am glad you are a part of our FAM:groupray:. I know that for those who see the Oral Torah as a negative, this will seem like a thorn (only for a short time I hope); but I too see the Oral Torah as a link to our greater understanding of the New Covenant as it is quoted and implyed to at length....Thank you for all your research.:thumbsup:
 
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