The Divinity of Jesus?
Was Jesus a historical person?
Please review the document previously posted on "Historical Jesus".
Do all Christians believe Jesus was Divine?
No. There is a movement of Christians, all be it smaller than the mainstream, who have come to accept a reality rejected by most others: The fact that the Jesus we know and love was not Divine, at least in a sense of being equated to God or the status of God.
This movement is often cited as blasphemy by many conservative, and even moderate, Christians; however, in reality, it is another valid viewpoint by believers seeking the truth about Christ and God.
For some, the idea of a Divine Jesus is incredibly problematic, and counter-productive.
How is Jesus' divinity a problem?
Sometimes, a person's relationship with God is obscured by many things. What all these things have in common, is that they are things of the world. Such as addictions, interests, mis-information, people, places, and so on.
One thing that has personally interrupted my own personal relationship with God over the years, has been the concept of Jesus' divinity, which has created a movement within the Church of people who worship Jesus first as opposed to the one and only God above All.
But Jesus did not come to us demanding our worship of Him. Instead, Jesus came to us with a message, from God, that was meant to guide us back into a perfected relationship with God. However, that message has been taken by the Christian movements over the last 2,000 years, and twisted into a form of almost polytheism where one must worship God through Jesus Himself... or to Worship Jesus first, above God, or as God.
Jesus never asked us to worship Him. In fact, just the opposite: He asked us to know the Father through the teachings and messages He brought to us from God, which is too important to toss aside. However, understanding the nature of both Jesus and His teachings' is important to being able to accept them into your own life, and have the closest relationship possible to God in your life through all circumstances.
What about John 14:6-7?
The message of Jesus did contain the words "No one comes to the Father except through me?" -- and this message cannot be thrown out. But this is one very tell-tale instance where taking the Bible literally fails miserably to divulge the truth behind the words of ancient times, ancient teachings, and the messages of God. Taking this information too literally leads people toward incorrectly "Dividing" God into pieces, elevating any person to the Status of God, or worse: Polytheism my apologies to any Pagans who may be reading, and no offense is intended whatsoever).
Jesus can even still be seated at the Right Hand of God without being Divine. It's a figurative association showing the importance of Jesus Christ.
But, Jesus never said "worship me". Jesus never said "pray to me!" -- That is a concept that was implemented after Jesus was long gone from this world, and it is something that hits me in the very soul as causing much misguidance and incorrect information in the contemporary faith of ancient teachings and an eternal God.
Relying on these conceptions of Jesus, can inhibit a person from truly connecting with God on a more personal level. If you are constantly trying to worship your way through Jesus to get to God, you will always have that barrier to supersede before reaching the Father at all. It is the message brought to us from Jesus that is most important, above all else.
Does this mean we can throw Jesus out?
Of course not. The concept of Christ is incredibly important, even if it's only in symbolic nature, or if it extends to something more.
Jesus was considered the uniquely chosen son of God (and we are all children of God), a divinely chosen teacher and prophet, with a very pointed message to each and every one of us: How to get back to the truth that is God, how to keep God in our lives, and how to bring back compassion, truth, and love for each other in human society.
Christianity without Christ would be a debunked theory, as the concept of Christ helps to reconcile us with God.
But Christianity without Christ being God, is not.
What about the miracles attributed to Jesus?
There are several schools of thought, including one I'll entertain in a following point, in addition to the current one. The other main consideration is that God would grace a great teacher or prophet such as Jesus with divine gifts of healing and other types of miracles, to present the message being given with much more authority. Therefor, God Himself would grant Jesus whatever gifts He needed to perform His duties on earth, as He was doing them. If I were to tell you that I was a prophet from God, I assume you'd laugh. But if I could cure the blind or raise the dead... would it not seem more likely?
This would also include something along the lines of the Virgin Birth. Many people throw out the idea of Christ not being divine on the grounds of "What would the purpose be of the Virgin Birth?" -- but this, to me, does not present any kind of argument at all when you consider what God was trying to do. If God wants to give us a message, He's going to give us a message. On His terms. Who are we to say "What's the point?" of anything He chooses to do on Earth?
Attributing the miracles directly to God, also shows us how God has always been the Head Honcho at all times. As mentioned above, never did Jesus say "Worship me," only did He ever say "Worship the Father, through what I have brought to you [including these Divine gifts]."
Other people consider the gifts brought by Jesus to be more along the lines of mythology than anything else, and this is not necessarily an incorrect outlook depending on how you personally interpret the situations of the ancient world and the messages of God in your life. If mythology assists you in understanding the message Jesus brought, who am I to tell you otherwise?
God knows humanity as doubtful creatures, and He's willing to give us a leg-up. Though the entire journey can't be undertaken by God... some of it must be left to us.
Is there any other way to look at the idea of Divinity?
Yes. Some consider Jesus "Divine" without resorting to deification (which means elevating Jesus to the status of God). This too makes sense.
This means that Jesus' miracles as stated above could be divinely attributed to Jesus in and of Himself [by His own free-will, rather than God being the one bestowing each gift at any one time], without Him actually being elevated to the status of God. This means God Himself wasn't "controlling" any miracles per-se, but that He did bestow upon Jesus the gift to perform such miraculous feats as healing the sick as part of anointing Him as a unique messenger to mankind.
Could the stories have been myth?
Yes, the miracles performed by Jesus, or the divinity of Jesus himself, could have been simply myth. It almost makes sense, considering Christianity's origins (please see previous document) are rooted in ancient roots far older than Jesus the man.
But as someone great once told me... much truth can still be conveyed through fiction.
How are the miracles viewed from a mythology standpoint?
The miracles attributed to Jesus become symbolic and are considered to be compiled from more ancient sources and stories. The Christ story itself is timeless, appearing as early as Ancient Egypt and perhaps even pre-dating that.
The use of the significant story and concept of Christ with regard to Jesus Christ just before the beginning of the first millennium doesn't lose meaning or value. It lives on as an important way of life, and the stories of the miracles and divinity having such close resemblance to more ancient stories becomes proof of the eternal nature of the concept of Christ and God.
Does this mean Jesus isn't the "Son of God"?
We are all God's children. Every last one of us. God even mentions specifically that David was a son begotten by God, and that Israel was His son too!
Was Jesus God's son? The description is not inaccurate. Moreover, Jesus as a man would have been Divinely chosen as a son of God. A very unique occurrence. It doesn't mean that he is God or was God, it just means he was chosen by God to deliver His message and reconcile the people of this world with God.
It's important not to let the idea of Divinity skew the idea of God's children, nor allow discerning between Divinely chosen and Divine incarnation to downplay the importance of Jesus Christ.
Christ was extremely important in many ways. That is why even those who don't believe in the divinity of Jesus are still able to call themselves Christians. A Christian is simply one who follows Christ to God, and we can still do that without the Divinity Clause.
Is the crucifixion still important?
I firmly believe that Jesus' message was more important than his death, as Christianity is a living religion and our God is a God of the living; however, that doesn't remove the importance and the significance of the crucifixion itself. It does have an importance, and I am not here to expel Jesus from our scriptures.
Jesus' entire message and his death included, was significant as a reconciliation between humanity and God. His sacrifice was sufficient. It "took away the sins of the world," and while I don't uphold the divinity clause for Jesus, I do uphold that Jesus died for all of us, so that we may know God intimately.
Jesus died (be it literal or not) so that we didn't have to die within ourselves in life and in death, apart from God, scared, confused, lost and alone. His willing sacrifice was one of faith, love, and a message to trust in God. There can be no message more important than that.
His death represents a breakdown of the barriers separating us from having a relationship with God, because Jesus lived on after death -- whether people believe this to be bodily, spiritually, or figuretively -- it doesn't matter. The purpose and the outcome are the exact same in all scenarios.
The death of Jesus also symbolizes the most important aspect of God: Love. A kind of self-sacrificial love that is only of God, and through which we can truly come to appreciate and connect with this deep and meaningful essence of God... drawing us closer to Him.
Could my relationship with God be hindered by taking things too literally?
Absolutely, and that's my entire point. Some people searching for the Christian God are going about it the wrong way. Trying to swallow the idea of a "Trinity" in the form of "Godly Pieces" often prevents people from accepting the one God into his or her heart to begin with. People are too busy seeking out what they believe is the "ends" (Jesus, all-mighty Savior embodied) and then attempting to adjust the means to fit that end. This is backward thinking at it's best, however.
Jesus' message to mankind was a turning point in our entire history, and it is an important piece of the entire spiritual puzzle. However, we must look to God and God alone with our primary forms of worship and prayer, else we truly risk obscuring the view of God within our own hearts and minds forever in a maze of confusion and despair. Placing God-substitutes in positions of exaltation and worship along the way only leads to confusion.
People who feel they may have reached a brick wall with their search for God should not give up! God is real and God has never given up on you. Instead of throwing in the towel, attempt to re-examine the way you have been searching, for faith truly is a journey... not a destination.
I believe Jesus was Divine. Do you think I'm wrong?
There is nothing wrong with believing Jesus was Divine. If it does not hinder, and even helps, your relationship with God? I have no authority to say, "You are wrong." That is not my place. Your life and your relationship with God is your own responsibility and under your own authority. You answer to no one but yourself, as is correct. You are as Christian as anyone else, as am I.
I will simply tell you that your view is not for me, and we are all perfectly unique.
Was Jesus a historical person?
Please review the document previously posted on "Historical Jesus".
Do all Christians believe Jesus was Divine?
No. There is a movement of Christians, all be it smaller than the mainstream, who have come to accept a reality rejected by most others: The fact that the Jesus we know and love was not Divine, at least in a sense of being equated to God or the status of God.
This movement is often cited as blasphemy by many conservative, and even moderate, Christians; however, in reality, it is another valid viewpoint by believers seeking the truth about Christ and God.
For some, the idea of a Divine Jesus is incredibly problematic, and counter-productive.
How is Jesus' divinity a problem?
Sometimes, a person's relationship with God is obscured by many things. What all these things have in common, is that they are things of the world. Such as addictions, interests, mis-information, people, places, and so on.
One thing that has personally interrupted my own personal relationship with God over the years, has been the concept of Jesus' divinity, which has created a movement within the Church of people who worship Jesus first as opposed to the one and only God above All.
But Jesus did not come to us demanding our worship of Him. Instead, Jesus came to us with a message, from God, that was meant to guide us back into a perfected relationship with God. However, that message has been taken by the Christian movements over the last 2,000 years, and twisted into a form of almost polytheism where one must worship God through Jesus Himself... or to Worship Jesus first, above God, or as God.
Jesus never asked us to worship Him. In fact, just the opposite: He asked us to know the Father through the teachings and messages He brought to us from God, which is too important to toss aside. However, understanding the nature of both Jesus and His teachings' is important to being able to accept them into your own life, and have the closest relationship possible to God in your life through all circumstances.
What about John 14:6-7?
The message of Jesus did contain the words "No one comes to the Father except through me?" -- and this message cannot be thrown out. But this is one very tell-tale instance where taking the Bible literally fails miserably to divulge the truth behind the words of ancient times, ancient teachings, and the messages of God. Taking this information too literally leads people toward incorrectly "Dividing" God into pieces, elevating any person to the Status of God, or worse: Polytheism my apologies to any Pagans who may be reading, and no offense is intended whatsoever).
Jesus can even still be seated at the Right Hand of God without being Divine. It's a figurative association showing the importance of Jesus Christ.
But, Jesus never said "worship me". Jesus never said "pray to me!" -- That is a concept that was implemented after Jesus was long gone from this world, and it is something that hits me in the very soul as causing much misguidance and incorrect information in the contemporary faith of ancient teachings and an eternal God.
Relying on these conceptions of Jesus, can inhibit a person from truly connecting with God on a more personal level. If you are constantly trying to worship your way through Jesus to get to God, you will always have that barrier to supersede before reaching the Father at all. It is the message brought to us from Jesus that is most important, above all else.
Does this mean we can throw Jesus out?
Of course not. The concept of Christ is incredibly important, even if it's only in symbolic nature, or if it extends to something more.
Jesus was considered the uniquely chosen son of God (and we are all children of God), a divinely chosen teacher and prophet, with a very pointed message to each and every one of us: How to get back to the truth that is God, how to keep God in our lives, and how to bring back compassion, truth, and love for each other in human society.
Christianity without Christ would be a debunked theory, as the concept of Christ helps to reconcile us with God.
But Christianity without Christ being God, is not.
What about the miracles attributed to Jesus?
There are several schools of thought, including one I'll entertain in a following point, in addition to the current one. The other main consideration is that God would grace a great teacher or prophet such as Jesus with divine gifts of healing and other types of miracles, to present the message being given with much more authority. Therefor, God Himself would grant Jesus whatever gifts He needed to perform His duties on earth, as He was doing them. If I were to tell you that I was a prophet from God, I assume you'd laugh. But if I could cure the blind or raise the dead... would it not seem more likely?
This would also include something along the lines of the Virgin Birth. Many people throw out the idea of Christ not being divine on the grounds of "What would the purpose be of the Virgin Birth?" -- but this, to me, does not present any kind of argument at all when you consider what God was trying to do. If God wants to give us a message, He's going to give us a message. On His terms. Who are we to say "What's the point?" of anything He chooses to do on Earth?
Attributing the miracles directly to God, also shows us how God has always been the Head Honcho at all times. As mentioned above, never did Jesus say "Worship me," only did He ever say "Worship the Father, through what I have brought to you [including these Divine gifts]."
Other people consider the gifts brought by Jesus to be more along the lines of mythology than anything else, and this is not necessarily an incorrect outlook depending on how you personally interpret the situations of the ancient world and the messages of God in your life. If mythology assists you in understanding the message Jesus brought, who am I to tell you otherwise?
God knows humanity as doubtful creatures, and He's willing to give us a leg-up. Though the entire journey can't be undertaken by God... some of it must be left to us.
Is there any other way to look at the idea of Divinity?
Yes. Some consider Jesus "Divine" without resorting to deification (which means elevating Jesus to the status of God). This too makes sense.
This means that Jesus' miracles as stated above could be divinely attributed to Jesus in and of Himself [by His own free-will, rather than God being the one bestowing each gift at any one time], without Him actually being elevated to the status of God. This means God Himself wasn't "controlling" any miracles per-se, but that He did bestow upon Jesus the gift to perform such miraculous feats as healing the sick as part of anointing Him as a unique messenger to mankind.
Could the stories have been myth?
Yes, the miracles performed by Jesus, or the divinity of Jesus himself, could have been simply myth. It almost makes sense, considering Christianity's origins (please see previous document
But as someone great once told me... much truth can still be conveyed through fiction.
How are the miracles viewed from a mythology standpoint?
The miracles attributed to Jesus become symbolic and are considered to be compiled from more ancient sources and stories. The Christ story itself is timeless, appearing as early as Ancient Egypt and perhaps even pre-dating that.
The use of the significant story and concept of Christ with regard to Jesus Christ just before the beginning of the first millennium doesn't lose meaning or value. It lives on as an important way of life, and the stories of the miracles and divinity having such close resemblance to more ancient stories becomes proof of the eternal nature of the concept of Christ and God.
Does this mean Jesus isn't the "Son of God"?
We are all God's children. Every last one of us. God even mentions specifically that David was a son begotten by God, and that Israel was His son too!
Was Jesus God's son? The description is not inaccurate. Moreover, Jesus as a man would have been Divinely chosen as a son of God. A very unique occurrence. It doesn't mean that he is God or was God, it just means he was chosen by God to deliver His message and reconcile the people of this world with God.
It's important not to let the idea of Divinity skew the idea of God's children, nor allow discerning between Divinely chosen and Divine incarnation to downplay the importance of Jesus Christ.
Christ was extremely important in many ways. That is why even those who don't believe in the divinity of Jesus are still able to call themselves Christians. A Christian is simply one who follows Christ to God, and we can still do that without the Divinity Clause.
Is the crucifixion still important?
I firmly believe that Jesus' message was more important than his death, as Christianity is a living religion and our God is a God of the living; however, that doesn't remove the importance and the significance of the crucifixion itself. It does have an importance, and I am not here to expel Jesus from our scriptures.
Jesus' entire message and his death included, was significant as a reconciliation between humanity and God. His sacrifice was sufficient. It "took away the sins of the world," and while I don't uphold the divinity clause for Jesus, I do uphold that Jesus died for all of us, so that we may know God intimately.
Jesus died (be it literal or not) so that we didn't have to die within ourselves in life and in death, apart from God, scared, confused, lost and alone. His willing sacrifice was one of faith, love, and a message to trust in God. There can be no message more important than that.
His death represents a breakdown of the barriers separating us from having a relationship with God, because Jesus lived on after death -- whether people believe this to be bodily, spiritually, or figuretively -- it doesn't matter. The purpose and the outcome are the exact same in all scenarios.
The death of Jesus also symbolizes the most important aspect of God: Love. A kind of self-sacrificial love that is only of God, and through which we can truly come to appreciate and connect with this deep and meaningful essence of God... drawing us closer to Him.
Could my relationship with God be hindered by taking things too literally?
Absolutely, and that's my entire point. Some people searching for the Christian God are going about it the wrong way. Trying to swallow the idea of a "Trinity" in the form of "Godly Pieces" often prevents people from accepting the one God into his or her heart to begin with. People are too busy seeking out what they believe is the "ends" (Jesus, all-mighty Savior embodied) and then attempting to adjust the means to fit that end. This is backward thinking at it's best, however.
Jesus' message to mankind was a turning point in our entire history, and it is an important piece of the entire spiritual puzzle. However, we must look to God and God alone with our primary forms of worship and prayer, else we truly risk obscuring the view of God within our own hearts and minds forever in a maze of confusion and despair. Placing God-substitutes in positions of exaltation and worship along the way only leads to confusion.
People who feel they may have reached a brick wall with their search for God should not give up! God is real and God has never given up on you. Instead of throwing in the towel, attempt to re-examine the way you have been searching, for faith truly is a journey... not a destination.
I believe Jesus was Divine. Do you think I'm wrong?
There is nothing wrong with believing Jesus was Divine. If it does not hinder, and even helps, your relationship with God? I have no authority to say, "You are wrong." That is not my place. Your life and your relationship with God is your own responsibility and under your own authority. You answer to no one but yourself, as is correct. You are as Christian as anyone else, as am I.
I will simply tell you that your view is not for me, and we are all perfectly unique.
