You have to actually follow God

[Bluelion]

Talking to people these days they will say John 3:16, when you say you have to surrender to God and actually follow him they will argue. Just what is the person arguing, that no you don't have to surrender to God, that no you don't have to follow God. This is not what God tells us, in James 2 we learn faith with out works is dead. It's not a persons work but rather every saved person produce fruit from or by way of the Holy Spirit. So you must produce fruit Jesus said this over and over that vines which did not produce fruit would be cut off. Jesus said if any man follow after me let him take up his cross daily deny him self and follow me. I think people argue it because they want to say oh I believe Jesus is the son of God and I am going to heaven for that now i can live as I please. I get to be cruel to others or sin or act how ever i want because i believe. when that is not the case. The world church says repeat these words and you will go to Heaven. No where in the bible does it say that. It takes more than words. So what you get is a whole lot of people who say oh I am a Christian but do not know God or what it means to follow Him. You have to actually follow God to get to Heaven, you must surrender to Him. That means you must struggle to do what is right, to not sin, and love everyone, that is our cross Jesus spoke of. It is not a free pass to do what ever you want. When you get saved you agree your way is wrong and God is right and you will do your best to live by those Laws and Jesus paid your debt, but you must follow God. Why people argue against that I really don't understand I guess they do not understand God or truth but some pastor told them they were saved so they think nothing matters. It is not true.

 

[BeStill&Know]

? Do I have to be Baptist to post here ?

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Hey Be Still - Of course you don't have to be a Baptist to reply, but it is better of course if you are one, us Baptists are special lol! jk

Blue Lion, Three verses for this:
a) A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:18-20
b) Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:21 - 23
c) Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

That being said, Some Christians, aren't really regenerated, and don't have the Holy Spirit, without the Holy Spirit, you can not please God, follow Him, Obey Him, or understand or hear Him.

Andy

 

[BeStill&Know]

Hey Be Still - Of course you don't have to be a Baptist to reply, but it is better of course if you are one, us Baptists are special lol! jk

Blue Lion, Three verses for this:
a) A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:18-20
b) Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:21 - 23
c) Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

That being said, Some Christians, aren't really regenerated, and don't have the Holy Spirit, without the Holy Spirit, you can not please God, follow Him, Obey Him, or understand or hear Him.

Andy

Well, you said everything I would have said. I may be Baptist and not know it. I spent decades following Dr Charles Stanley, and now his son Andy Stanley on It's Your Move.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, you said everything I would have said. I may be Baptist and not know it. I spent decades following Dr Charles Stanley, and now his son Andy Stanley on It's Your Move.

I used to listen to Charles Stanley. Adrian Rogers was another one.

 

[BeStill&Know]

Talking to people these days they will say John 3:16, when you say you have to surrender to God and actually follow him they will argue. Just what is the person arguing, that no you don't have to surrender to God, that no you don't have to follow God. This is not what God tells us, in James 2 we learn faith with out works is dead. It's not a persons work but rather every saved person produce fruit from or by way of the Holy Spirit. So you must produce fruit Jesus said this over and over that vines which did not produce fruit would be cut off. Jesus said if any man follow after me let him take up his cross daily deny him self and follow me. I think people argue it because they want to say oh I believe Jesus is the son of God and I am going to heaven for that now i can live as I please. I get to be cruel to others or sin or act how ever i want because i believe. when that is not the case. The world church says repeat these words and you will go to Heaven. No where in the bible does it say that. It takes more than words. So what you get is a whole lot of people who say oh I am a Christian but do not know God or what it means to follow Him. You have to actually follow God to get to Heaven, you must surrender to Him. That means you must struggle to do what is right, to not sin, and love everyone, that is our cross Jesus spoke of. It is not a free pass to do what ever you want. When you get saved you agree your way is wrong and God is right and you will do your best to live by those Laws and Jesus paid your debt, but you must follow God. Why people argue against that I really don't understand I guess they do not understand God or truth but some pastor told them they were saved so they think nothing matters. It is not true.

Hi BlueLion, I agree with all you say. My only comment would be a different twist on your statement >
"That means you must struggle to do what is right, to not sin, and love everyone, that is our cross Jesus spoke of.
I could be wrong in this as I have not studied this Biblical comment. A cross was a heavy burden of course, and it meant that soon a painful death would occur. I have understood the heavy burden part to mean our many weakness, frailties which are trials for us, thereby burdens. That would mean Jesus is saying, Carry those with you, to the cross, DON"T let those hinder you from following Me. I've had much experience in this...But Jesus also states >
Matthew 11:28
Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

 

[BeStill&Know]

I used to listen to Charles Stanley. Adrian Rogers was another one.

I listen to Adrian also, and others like Robert Morris.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I listen to Adrian also, and others like Robert Morris.

I think Mr Rogers is no longer living. What I find, from someone up here is that there are some very good talks and sermons around. Sometimes the televised talks are peppered with running commentaries about politicians in the US - almost as if they are running for office. So a lot of the sermons and talks I have greatly enjoyed; but when they get into politics it's really no longer relevant up here and can be a bit distracting also; this is why also I haven't listened so much lately.

 

[DLR]

I agree with the O.P. This question usually leads back to a discussion of whether the person was truly saved in the first place. A true Christian is still a man and will sin again, but he should have strong inclination to follow God. There may or may not be some spiritual peaks and valleys though the years of a man's life, but one who returns to his old sinful ways a month after baptism was never saved, and I think most of us would agree God knows the difference. I realize this post was not particularly profound, but it does need to be addressed before the original argument of the thread can expand.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I agree, because John 10:27 says - My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

So these people most likely are not sheep, but again it's up to God to Judge, but based on the outward fruit of a person, that is an indication of their spiritual condition.

I agree with the O.P. This question usually leads back to a discussion of whether the person was truly saved in the first place. A true Christian is still a man and will sin again, but he should have strong inclination to follow God. There may or may not be some spiritual peaks and valleys though the years of a man's life, but one who returns to his old sinful ways a month after baptism was never saved, and I think most of us would agree God knows the difference. I realize this post was not particularly profound, but it does need to be addressed before the original argument of the thread can expand.

 

[Bluelion]

Hey Be Still - Of course you don't have to be a Baptist to reply, but it is better of course if you are one, us Baptists are special lol! jk

Blue Lion, Three verses for this:
a) A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:18-20
b) Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:21 - 23
c) Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

That being said, Some Christians, aren't really regenerated, and don't have the Holy Spirit, without the Holy Spirit, you can not please God, follow Him, Obey Him, or understand or hear Him.

Andy

Had those verse in mind when I wrote this

 

[Bluelion]

Hi BlueLion, I agree with all you say. My only comment would be a different twist on your statement >
"That means you must struggle to do what is right, to not sin, and love everyone, that is our cross Jesus spoke of.
I could be wrong in this as I have not studied this Biblical comment. A cross was a heavy burden of course, and it meant that soon a painful death would occur. I have understood the heavy burden part to mean our many weakness, frailties which are trials for us, thereby burdens. That would mean Jesus is saying, Carry those with you, to the cross, DON"T let those hinder you from following Me. I've had much experience in this...But Jesus also states >
Matthew 11:28
Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

Yes the burden Jesus places on us is light and this is why, we have forgiveness. So if we fall and sin we just get back up we have been forgiven, there is no punishment any more, that is why it is light. The cross look at what Jesus did, again it says we must put our sinful nature to death. Now take that with the verse take up your cross daily deny your self and follow me. We struggle with our sinful nature to nail it to the cross and leave it there. Day after day we battle our self and hang on the cross, deny are self, our sinful nature, our desires, do what is right. Paul spoke of the struggle in Romans. That is what the verse means.

Wow I am surprised I have not got your wrong yet, lol cheers.

 

[Bluelion]

an interesting thing happen I was arguing the OP of this thread to my blood brother and he like many was rejecting it. He said and how do you follow God. I thought wow your suppose to be saved and you don't know how to follow God? seems odd. He said you tell me. I told him some stuff He said oh and no one else does that stuff. I said look there are 66 books about how to follow God, and thought you want me to some it up in a word? But God did for him, I said You have to love God if you love God you will follow God, The word is love. He went on to tell me the last would be first and first last which he said his preacher told him meant there would be people saved up to the last day. I said no that is not what that passage means your getting it confused with a story Jesus told. I said the last would be first and first last is reference to the Jews as the first people to come to God but would be the last people saved, 144,000 during the tribulation. He then tried to get me to enter into an agreement with him that the Holy Spirit would correct who ever was wrong. I said no, personally I fear correction from God it is not pleasant, but I told him I was not even sure he was saved so I would enter no agreement with him before God. He then said I rejected the Holy Spirit, to which I told him to be careful because he was accusing me of an unforgivable sin, he repeated it saying I had rejected the Holy Spirit, to which I said will see what God says. He then went off saying I was in danger of hell because the Bible says if you curse your brother, he said you can not say that I am damned. I said I never said you were damned I questioned if you were saved, I said your own words convict you. Now before this took place he was just saying arrogantly He welcome correction from The Holy Spirit. Did the Holy Spirit just correct him with him going off on me that he was damned? He became very afraid at this point and got off the phone.

In fact every time I talk to him I have this feeling like he is trying to get me to speak against the Holy Spirit, he keeps asking me leading questions and when I don't answer his way he gets mad then when i do say something he accuses me of committing and unforgivable sin? It certainly seems like he wants me to commit a sin which would cast me into hell. He also trys to pit me against other pastors trys to get me to speak to there salvation just going on what he said they said. I say no I would have to speak to the guy and see what God tells me, he then gets mad that I will not speak against them with out hearing them. What kind of evil soul trys to get his blood brother to commit and unforgivable sin? It certainly appears he has been playing or trying to play a game with my soul. I wonder if in his efforts to get me to speak against The Holy Spirit he did not commit that sin him self, to which God convicted him and He attacked me saying he was damned, which I never said? Any one got any thought about what happen in this mess? I am not 100% sure that he is damned, but something convicted him. I don't take joy either, in fact I feel a lost. I don't take comfort that anyone will go to hell let alone him. Somethings change though i feel like God is saying move on and forget about him. I feel like it is over as far as us being family even by blood or friends. It just feels over for him.

 

[mikedsjr]

I would argue against the OP, but there is no point because there is no real discussion. If I argue against the OP I will only be categorized instead of given a legitimate voice.

There is a problem in the church and it certainly deals with sin and the forgetfulness of why they were saved from. That's about as much as I'll say. I know I have theological differences with the author of the OP that impacts our beliefs. I'm a cross between a Lutheran and Reformed in my views and very very strong leaning towards the Lutheran view of works. I'm absolutely opposed to Weslyan view on works which they OP tends to gravitate to.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Bluelion. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22: 35-40. God is Love, and God wants our love, freely given and NO conditions asked. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. ( neighbour being all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends)
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," change from being selfish and unloving, to loving and caring, kind and considerate. God will see our loving efforts, and God will Bless us. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. We learn to love and be kind, then we follow Jesus back to God. We follow Jesus back to God. I say this with love, Bluelion. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Bluelion]

I would argue against the OP, but there is no point because there is no real discussion. If I argue against the OP I will only be categorized instead of given a legitimate voice.

There is a problem in the church and it certainly deals with sin and the forgetfulness of why they were saved from. That's about as much as I'll say. I know I have theological differences with the author of the OP that impacts our beliefs. I'm a cross between a Lutheran and Reformed in my views and very very strong leaning towards the Lutheran view of works. I'm absolutely opposed to Weslyan view on works which they OP tends to gravitate to.

The works are produced from The Holy Spirit James 2, but I do appreciate your attempt not to argue and respect that.

 

[Bluelion]

Dear Bluelion. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22: 35-40. God is Love, and God wants our love, freely given and NO conditions asked. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. ( neighbour being all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends)
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," change from being selfish and unloving, to loving and caring, kind and considerate. God will see our loving efforts, and God will Bless us. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. We learn to love and be kind, then we follow Jesus back to God. We follow Jesus back to God. I say this with love, Bluelion. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Emmy always preaching the two greatest commandments or one in two parts. Such a joy and your restless If we could just love each other i do believe Jesus would return. Good words and wise words thanks for your input.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi BlueLion, I agree with all you say. My only comment would be a different twist on your statement >
"That means you must struggle to do what is right, to not sin, and love everyone, that is our cross Jesus spoke of.
I could be wrong in this as I have not studied this Biblical comment. A cross was a heavy burden of course, and it meant that soon a painful death would occur. I have understood the heavy burden part to mean our many weakness, frailties which are trials for us, thereby burdens. That would mean Jesus is saying, Carry those with you, to the cross, DON"T let those hinder you from following Me. I've had much experience in this...But Jesus also states >
Matthew 11:28
Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 11:28 is in referring to Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 6:16-19 Thus says the Lord: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17 I set watchmen over you, saying, ‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’ 18 Therefore hear, O nations, and know, O congregation, what will happen to them. 19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

Our rest for our souls is in following Christ's example of doing what is holy, righteous, and good.

 

[corinth77777]

Talking to people these days they will say John 3:16, when you say you have to surrender to God and actually follow him they will argue. Just what is the person arguing, that no you don't have to surrender to God, that no you don't have to follow God. This is not what God tells us, in James 2 we learn faith with out works is dead. It's not a persons work but rather every saved person produce fruit from or by way of the Holy Spirit. So you must produce fruit Jesus said this over and over that vines which did not produce fruit would be cut off. Jesus said if any man follow after me let him take up his cross daily deny him self and follow me. I think people argue it because they want to say oh I believe Jesus is the son of God and I am going to heaven for that now i can live as I please. I get to be cruel to others or sin or act how ever i want because i believe. when that is not the case. The world church says repeat these words and you will go to Heaven. No where in the bible does it say that. It takes more than words. So what you get is a whole lot of people who say oh I am a Christian but do not know God or what it means to follow Him. You have to actually follow God to get to Heaven, you must surrender to Him. That means you must struggle to do what is right, to not sin, and love everyone, that is our cross Jesus spoke of. It is not a free pass to do what ever you want. When you get saved you agree your way is wrong and God is right and you will do your best to live by those Laws and Jesus paid your debt, but you must follow God. Why people argue against that I really don't understand I guess they do not understand God or truth but some pastor told them they were saved so they think nothing matters. It is not true.

I grew up Baptist..and Father a Baptist Minister...and I will give a reason people think like that...but at the same time tell you I don't know who is saved..in the future. When Baptist Teach Eternal security..but fail to include other dynamics or exclude thoughts that may be assumed...and as people..not just Baptist who view through this scope of teaching....then the outcome of behavior is based and shaped by this view...If people believe that their justification is all there is to salvation...then What will cause them to transform to the image of Christ. Instead of reading and understanding other scriptures..people hold to a doctrinal teaching that is not inclusive of what scripture teach in actual context. If you change the way people think it will change their behavior. Why have we left out regeneration as part of salvation...or believe there is nothing we do to keep in right relationship with God?...Because maybe we accept certain knowledges without testing them in scriptures. Not all knowledge is built off all facts and proper understanding. Example: when people thought the world was flat....they held it as true..and formed and developed other wrong theories from that ...and every answer or question derived through that scope.

 

[corinth77777]

The works are produced from The Holy Spirit James 2, but I do appreciate your attempt not to argue and respect that.

May I Asked how does the holy spirit in detail produce these works? I know we are to produce fruit. How in your own experience does he do this?