You don’t have a soul; you are a soul?

[tonychanyt]

King James Bible, Genesis 2:

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul [H5315].

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) — 754 Occurrences

It was a frequent word with many meanings. Brown-Driver-Briggs:

1. = that which breathes, the breathing substance or being
2. The נפשׁ becomes a living being: by God's breathing
3. a. a living being whose life resides in the blood
4. The נפשׁ as the essential of man stands for the man himself:
5. seat of the appetites
6. seat of emotions and passions
7. נפשׁ is used occasionally for mental acts

The soul is closely identified with the man, even equating to him.

ESV, Exodus 31:

14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul [H5315] shall be cut off from among his people.

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) — 754 Occurrences

It was a common word with many senses.

ESV, Job 30:

16 And now my soul is poured out within me; days of affliction have taken hold of me.

Job's inner soul is poured out.

ESV, Deuteronomy 12:

23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life [H5312-soul], and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.

An animal has blood. The blood is the H5312-soul.

Matthew 16:

26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

The Hebrew word for "soul" has multiple senses, as do the Greek and English words. The notion of the soul has multiple senses. In some sense, we are souls; in some sense, we have souls.

See also The SOUL that sins shall die

 

[eleos1954]

King James Bible, Genesis 2:


The soul is closely identified with the man, even equating to him.

ESV, Exodus 31:


Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) — 754 Occurrences

It was a common word with many senses.

ESV, Job 30:


Job's inner soul is poured out.

ESV, Deuteronomy 12:


An animal has blood. The blood is the H5312-soul.

Matthew 16:


The Hebrew word for "soul" has multiple senses. The same goes for the Greek and English. The notion of the soul has multiple senses. In some sense, we are souls; in some sense, we have souls.

Humans are mortal. The very definition to mortal is being subject to death. Humans are subject to the possibility of 2 deaths as taught by scripture.

Greek

thnétos: subject to death
Original Word: θνητός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: thnétos
Phonetic Spelling: (thnay-tos')
Definition: subject to death
Usage: mortal, subject to death.

We are given the breath of life .... the ability to be alive

Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:21)

Ecclesiastes 3:19​

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity.

No mention anywhere of animals continuing to exist after physical death. No mention of God judging the actions of animals to discover if they were good or evil. No mention of a resurrection for animals anywhere in the Bible. That is because animals are not made in God's image (Genesis 1:2).

1 Corinthians 15:53

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

We don't put on immortality until Jesus returns ... at the last trump.

Death is death .... cease to exist ... the first death need not be for eternity ... the 2nd death is for eternity. There will be 2 resurrections ... all will be resurrected one day .... that is why it is called a sleep. (all are dormant in the grave until they are resurrected) .. the 1st resurrection will receive immortality .... the 2nd resurrection will not receive immortality.

Ezekiel 18:4​

Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul (person) who sins shall die.

nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

Soul (person) a living being

 

[tonychanyt]

Humans are mortal.

Do you have a soul?

 

[KevinT]

Do you have a soul?

Like the word "Love", it seems to me the word "soul" has been used in so many different contexts (as your prior post pointed out), that it has become so overloaded with meanings that it becomes largely useless. I love my wife and I love french fries, etc. It seems it is easy for one person to latch onto just one of those meanings and argue with someone hanging onto a different meaning.

I think the usual solution for this is to utilize a different word that has a more specific meaning. But I don't know how that would be done in this case.

Kevin

 

[tonychanyt]

I love my wife and I love french fries, etc.

Check out Other usages of agape-love

I think the usual solution for this is to utilize a different word that has a more specific meaning. But I don't know how that would be done in this case.

When needed, I would define the word locally within a thread. Sometimes, I even resort to love1 means ... and love2 means ...

 

[childeye 2]

Do you have a soul?

I see the soul as a vessel of spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:7​

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.​

Some semantics:
I am a soul=I am a vessel.
I have a soul=There's something spiritual inside me.

​

 

[KevinT]

I see the soul as a vessel of spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:7​

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.​

Some semantics:
I am a soul=I am a vessel.
I have a soul=There's something spiritual inside me.

​

I can fully agree with thinking about a soul in this manner. As I wrote before, the word "soul" can be seen or considered in many different lights.

I have a friend offline that I have been discussing this with. I think the real question to consider with thinking about souls is to decide whether or not the soul is immortal.

To start pinning this down, I have to consider if I believe the "soul" has an independent existence separate from the body. While someone is alive, I have no problem with thinking about the body and "soul" working together. But after the body dies, does the soul also die? Or does it have intrinsic immortality? If it is immortal, it is because God gave it that immortality? What Biblical support is there for this? Also, if it is immortal, then was it immortal BEFORE it was joined to the body? Are souls created at the same time the body is formed, or did they have existence beforehand? If immortality is dependent on God granting this immortality, then it isn't intrinsically immortal, and eternal life is simply the result of God's gift of life, but conditional to following His conditions.

I ultimately believe that "Soul" = "Personhood", and that humans to not have separate immortal element that continues to live after the body dies. In the Garden of Eden, God told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit, that they would die. But Satan told them that "You will not certainly die" (Gen 3:4). It seems to me that many believe that even apart from following God's path, that they will continue to exist on, in a conscious condition, after death. They die, but they don't REALLY die. And that seems just more of the same of Satan's lie.

What do you all think?

 

[tonychanyt]

I ultimately believe that "Soul" = "Personhood",

Right. Check out What is the human soul technically?

 

[childeye 2]

I can fully agree with thinking about a soul in this manner. As I wrote before, the word "soul" can be seen or considered in many different lights.

I have a friend offline that I have been discussing this with. I think the real question to consider with thinking about souls is to decide whether or not the soul is immortal.

To start pinning this down, I have to consider if I believe the "soul" has an independent existence separate from the body. While someone is alive, I have no problem with thinking about the body and "soul" working together. But after the body dies, does the soul also die? Or does it have intrinsic immortality? If it is immortal, it is because God gave it that immortality? What Biblical support is there for this? Also, if it is immortal, then was it immortal BEFORE it was joined to the body? Are souls created at the same time the body is formed, or did they have existence beforehand? If immortality is dependent on God granting this immortality, then it isn't intrinsically immortal, and eternal life is simply the result of God's gift of life, but conditional to following His conditions.

I ultimately believe that "Soul" = "Personhood", and that humans to not have separate immortal element that continues to live after the body dies. In the Garden of Eden, God told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit, that they would die. But Satan told them that "You will not certainly die" (Gen 3:4). It seems to me that many believe that even apart from following God's path, that they will continue to exist on, in a conscious condition, after death. They die, but they don't REALLY die. And that seems just more of the same of Satan's lie.

What do you all think?

I think "soul" as a vessel of spirit would necessarily imply personhood as an individual identity, or Animas. The semantics will most likely become more complicated when discussing what actually constitutes personhood, particularly in the moral/immoral aspects where the spirit/emotion/countenance/character become applicable to God as our Spiritual Father.

As pertains to immortality/mortality, I tend to think of incorruption/corruption of the soul, and I see this as being intrinsically tied to one's imagery of God as the Eternal power. It's perfectly reasonable to me that there would only be one incorruptible Eternal power, yet without knowledge of the Eternal, there could be many corruptible images of god/gods.

Exodus 32: 7-8
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Jeremiah 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.


2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 4:6
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I notice that there are two deaths spoken of in scripture, and one appears to pertain to the soul in some sense of being either destructible or perhaps stuck in a perpetual low-quality state of existence.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[KevinT]

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Interesting insights. Thanks!

Best wishes,
Kevin

 

[Semper-Fi]

King James Bible, Genesis 2:


The soul is closely identified with the man, even equating to him.

ESV, Exodus 31:


Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) — 754 Occurrences

As I mentioned in the other thread, you are relying on a bad translation here in gen.

nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature

 

[tonychanyt]

As I mentioned in the other thread, you are relying on a bad translation here in gen.

Let proposition P1 = I, semper-Fi, have a soul.

True?

 

[Semper-Fi]

Let proposition P1 = I, semper-Fi, have a soul.

True?

I would preferer to stick to bible verses in question.

 

[tonychanyt]

I would preferer to stick to bible verses in question.

So do I. Further, I prefer to interact with people who can perform propositional logic.

See
If you think that you don't have a soul and wish to wager on it, and follow up there.

 

[Semper-Fi]

So do I. Further, I prefer to interact with people who can perform propositional logic.

Sorry I never studied how to perform propositional logic.

"The most thoroughly researched branch of propositional logic is classical truth-functional propositional logic,[1] in which formulas are interpreted as having precisely one of two possible truth values, the truth value of true or the truth value of false.[15] The principle of bivalence and the law of excluded middle are upheld. By comparison with first-order logic, truth-functional propositional logic is considered to be zeroth-order logic.[4][5]"

Propositional calculus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is a mouth full, and is what the bible says not to do.

James 5:12 ESV
Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’;
anything more than this comes from evil.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word
that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

See
If you think that you don't have a soul and wish to wager on it, and follow up there.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord.

So We may throw the dice/bet, but
the Lord determines how they fall.

I am not a betting man, but only rely on the sure word of God.

Romans 3:4 KJV: God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;
as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest
overcome when thou art judged.

A key to effective Bible study is to let the Bible interpret itself.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/2024/Bible-Interprets-Itself.htm#:~:text=A%20key%20to%20effective%20Bible%20study%20is%20to,what%20it%20means%20in%20secular%20Greek%20or%20Hebrew.

 

[tonychanyt]

James 5:12 ESV
Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’;
anything more than this comes from evil.

Good point. So, do you have a soul, yes or no?

 

[Semper-Fi]

Good point. So, do you have a soul, yes or no?

I thought I made that clear in my other post.

"The soul is composed of physical matter, not spirit.
You do not have a soul, you are a soul."
See What is the human soul technically? and follow up there.

I would not have even posted what I said it if I was not sure.

Now if you want to know about "the spirit in man" is ? I will post that
also in "what-is-the-human-soul-technically". It is a real pain to have
to jump from different threads on the same subject.

 

[tonychanyt]

I thought I made that clear in my other post.

James 5:12 ESV
Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’;
anything more than this comes from evil.

Good point. So, do you have a soul, yes or no? Anything more than this comes from the evil. This is the 3rd and the last time I have asked.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Good point. So, do you have a soul, yes or no? Anything more than this comes from the evil. This is the 3rd and the last time I have asked.

No "I do not have a soul", I am a soul! I stated now for the third time.
The bible defines a soul as an air breathing creature.

Do you have a soul, yes or no?

 

[CoreyD]

King James Bible, Genesis 2:


Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) — 754 Occurrences

It was a frequent word with many meanings. Brown-Driver-Briggs:

1. = that which breathes, the breathing substance or being
2. The נפשׁ becomes a living being: by God's breathing
3. a. a living being whose life resides in the blood
4. The נפשׁ as the essential of man stands for the man himself:
5. seat of the appetites
6. seat of emotions and passions
7. נפשׁ is used occasionally for mental acts

The soul is closely identified with the man, even equating to him.

ESV, Exodus 31:


Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) — 754 Occurrences

It was a common word with many senses.

ESV, Job 30:


Job's inner soul is poured out.

ESV, Deuteronomy 12:


An animal has blood. The blood is the H5312-soul.

Matthew 16:


The Hebrew word for "soul" has multiple senses, as do the Greek and English words. The notion of the soul has multiple senses. In some sense, we are souls; in some sense, we have souls.

See also The SOUL that sins shall die

Strong's Concordance puts it in simple terms.
nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
We are living beings. We have life within us.