Yet another example of Oklahoma legislative stupidity...

Fantine

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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...bill-restricting-marriage-to-people-of-faith/

A bill that would restrict the right to marry to people of faith and would mandate all marriage licenses be approved by a member of the clergy was approved by the Oklahoma state House on Tuesday.

The bill, approved by a Republican majority, now goes to the state Senate for consideration.

House Bill 1125, sponsored by Republican State Representative Todd Russ, is a radical measure that would end secular marriage licenses in the state. In addition, the bill would bar all judges and other secular officials from performing marriages in Oklahoma...

Johnson and other Republicans are confused. For the record, marriage is a legal contract between two consenting adults, and as a legal contract it is governed by the state. A wedding, on the other hand, may or may not be a religious ceremony, depending upon the wishes of the couple.

Currently all marriages, whether performed by clergy or laypeople, must be licensed in the states where they are performed. I was always told that the couple really confers the sacrament on one another and that the priest or minister merely serves as "witness."

I am sure that the IRS, Social Security Administration, VA, and other agencies would not recognize the licenseless marriages the brainless Oklahoma legislators are trying to foist on their foolish voters.
 

PsychoeDial

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It's amazing how many Christians are willing fo their society to disintegrate. IT's truly shocking.
I'm sure there are many Christians who feel their society is already in process of disintegrating. That which God finds morally reprehensible is forcing by law capitulation to that which is immoral and in many cases, undiagnosed mental illness or physical and chemical imbalances. Rather than treatment, surgical mutilation ensues. And after that that minority number of defects are being permitted to trespass upon and violate the rights and privacies of the majority.

It is the insane asylum metaphor wherein the lunatics are not only out of their cells but they're given the keys to walk into other peoples privacy. And if those persons object to the trespass on that right to privacy, those lunatics are allowed to further their journey with the proceeds garnered from the lawsuits they file, and the satisfaction they're afforded having put the moral and the sane who may be Christian also out of business.

No, this society has been degenerating for a very long time. And that dissolution of a moral society is allowed momentum because it is said to be politically correct that it occur. And those opposed are then labeled immoral, bigots, homophobes, and transphobic.

The United States is being forced to become that antithesis of its former self. Rather than a nation under God founded on the spirit and principles of righteousness, right-ness, it is becoming a nation done under by the precepts of God's nemesis. And the minions of said nemesis.

It is a circular man-made devolution that will ultimately result in our human society, because this movement is happening all over the world, needing to be saved from its evils and sin yet again. And being God's word is already here it will then be when the proverbial wheat and tares are separated after all is said and done.

When the world becomes what the adversary of righteousness intends those who sustain themselves in the truth of God wherever they are, here or the middle east or anywhere else where this chaos is active, will survive to the extent their armor is sound. Those who are nominally Christian, who are weak in faith, who are prone to capitulate because they're afraid to stand for truth, morality, decency, and good old common sense, will fall away into the legendary walled city , metaphorically, of that which is remembered and recalled as Sodom and Gomorrah. Where none but one steadfast family of Lot; meaning, a covering or veil. I.E. refuge, stayed true to God. And later turned their back on that city condemned to the flames.

All is as God predestined. There is no fear in the Christian for what is transpiring. Just amazement that we are watching the erosion of a great nation built on the foundations of God's spirit falling away to that Lion that roams the earth seeking and finding those souls he devours. By law. Man's law.
And even God's people are falling away now. Just as was prophesied. 1 Timothy 4 . They become members of the worlds church and as such fulfill the other prophecy Christ foretold in Matthew 7.

Again, in my view it is all as God wills. A nation that new God but turns away from the truth of Christ, will be made to bow to that choice by suffering the trials that ensue after the veil of righteousness is abraded. That old truism that a people do not know how good they had it until it is swept away.
Thinking it is proper to live in the world, and be proponents of the worlds immorality structure that heralds anything goes, no constraints, not even common sense and certainly not biology, will in itself afford a lesson that vice always does.

Even the laws of this country at one time recognized marriage was between one man and one woman. As God ordained in the beginning.
A law like this wouldn't zap a people's rights. It would preserve a peoples rights. While a civil union, which is what a marriage license actually is also, license would allow those opposed to issuing a marriage license the right to refuse that while granting a CU permit.

The idea that the 14th amendment is being violated in that doesn't hold either. The 14th doesn't guarantee equal possession or entitlement to the word; marriage. Whereas a license is a state's issuance of the privilege to unite as a couple and enjoy all the benefits therein.
What is a civil union for one group is the all encompassing meaning behind the marriage license granted for all. Because a marriage license grants a civil union between applicants.

And this then preserves the religious identity and institution of marriage for the religious. And guarantees the civil right of the homosexual to enter into the civil union that is what comes after the issuance of a license to unite as a couple under civil law. http://www.law.lsu.edu/clo/civil-law-online/what-is-the-civil-law/
 
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Fantine

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In terms of "society disintegrating," marriage strengthens societies. As a basic economic unit, it is unsurpassed in creating financial stability and lifting people out of poverty (divorce, on the other hand, often results in poverty). Healthy marriages provide emotional security for children. Single people, particularly single men, tend to die younger. Elderly singles often suffer terrible loneliness.

States should have an interest in encouraging marriage, but Oklahoma, by only allowing ordained ministers to perform marriages, discourages marriage.

And since the law violates the separation of church and state it will undoubtedly be overturned by the Supreme Court, should it pass.
 
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In terms of "society disintegrating," marriage strengthens societies. As a basic economic unit, it is unsurpassed in creating financial stability and lifting people out of poverty (divorce, on the other hand, often results in poverty). Healthy marriages provide emotional security for children. Single people, particularly single men, tend to die younger. Elderly singles often suffer terrible loneliness.

States should have an interest in encouraging marriage, but Oklahoma, by only allowing ordained ministers to perform marriages, discourages marriage.

And since the law violates the separation of church and state it will undoubtedly be overturned by the Supreme Court, should it pass.

The problem is that many of these states are now promoting gay marriage and other partnerships that are neither healthy nor biblical.
 
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Fantine

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Cos-play

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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...bill-restricting-marriage-to-people-of-faith/



Currently all marriages, whether performed by clergy or laypeople, must be licensed in the states where they are performed. I was always told that the couple really confers the sacrament on one another and that the priest or minister merely serves as "witness."

I am sure that the IRS, Social Security Administration, VA, and other agencies would not recognize the licenseless marriages the brainless Oklahoma legislators are trying to foist on their foolish voters.

Forget about Obergefell v Hodges

This one is unconstitutional on Loving v Virginia.

Oklahoma (we're the wind comes sweeping down the plains) can't do this. The right to marriage who you want is fundamental
 
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PsychoeDial

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Forget about Obergefell v Hodges

This one is unconstitutional on Loving v Virginia.

Oklahoma (we're the wind comes sweeping down the plains) can't do this. The right to marriage who you want is fundamental
It's not a right. That's why a marriage license can be refused to applicants.
 
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PsychoeDial

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Cos-play

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It's not a right. That's why a marriage license can be refused to applicants.

I rebuff and quote CJ Warren in the Loving Decision:

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.
 
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Armoured

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It's amazing how many Christians are willing fo their society to disintergrate. IT's truly shocking.
Yep, those same sex marriages are sure causing society to disintegrate. Just look at the smoking crater that used to be the Netherlands!
 
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Armoured

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The problem is that many of these states are now promoting gay marriage and other partnerships that are neither healthy nor biblical.
Secular law doesn't need to have anything to do with the Bible. As for unhealthy, define what you mean? I see nothing to suggest any given same sex marriage is likely to be less healthy than any given hetero marriage.
 
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PsychoeDial

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I rebuff and quote CJ Warren in the Loving Decision:
The Loving decision concerned race. However, marriage licenses are able to be refused by the CotC.

Another way to look at the issue is for Christians to abandon marriage licenses all together so that their union is not a creature of the state. Let the homosexuals and others have the state controlling their lives, their families, their property, etc...The relationship then becomes a legal threesome. The wife-bride, the husband-groom, and the state.

God's word said nothing about a marriage license.
 
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Fantine

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Well, there are a lot of anti-government people in Oklahoma. I guess maybe they wouldn't care if their children were illegitimate, they couldn't get family medical benefits from employers, they had to pay higher taxes etc. because they wanted to boycott state-licensed marriages to demonstrate their opposition to what other people do.

It is very interesting to observe southerners around me shooting themselves in the foot based on some masochistic inclinations of self-sufficiency.

An example: I know a Vietnam vet, a southerner. He has diabetes. "Do you know you can get Agent Orange benefits for that," I ask. Why? Because if someone has a sad story and I can give him/her information that is helpful, I always do.

"Yes," he says. "I get my prescriptions from the VA. But I wouldn't take any benefits, because I could have gotten diabetes anyway."

"Really?" I ask this very thin man. "How old were you when you got diabetes?"

"31." Thirty-one??? Thirty-one???? Super-thin Vietnam vet gets diabetes at 31 and doesn't think it's related to Agent Orange?

Last week he had a heart bypass. I feel for him and his family, but I am not going to keep trying to offer advice to someone too masochistic and stubborn to heed it. (He is in the local hospital, not a VA hospital, but hopefully Medicare is covering most of it).
 
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