... ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart

[strangertoo]

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

understand this , God has said His people WILL find Him

but not until they seek Him and nothing else
with all their heart

then and only then
will He add everything else good in to them

and He cannot do so in this world
for it is both too small for all creation that ever was
and we have already committed it to destruction
by our sin against God and ourselves...

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

How can one get to a new universe, a new world ?

-TWO ways:

-1.- the first is the way of the FEW saints of this earth who listen to God now and Love as He commands, they are 'taken' by Jesus at his return , resurrected from the dead from hell, just as Jesus was, to life , to be immediately translated to spirit to be with God and then manifest in the new earth to buld the kingdom of God for a thousand years

before the second way :

-2.- the way of the many, all still sinners by time of Jesus' return, left behind because Jesus says he NEVER KNEW them, no matter what they say , destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:14] in the 'wrath of God'

it is the way through SURE DEATH and hell for continued sin, NOT as punishment as sinners paradoxically and falsely claim, God does not say that, but a 'sleep' as Jesus put it, for a thousand years, like Rip Van Winkle... just to give time for the FEW to create the kingdom come PURE , incorruptible Love in obedience to God and Jesus' commandment...

so understand from Jesus ALL are raised to the FLESH from hell ['sheol', 'hades'] , no-one even can be left behind and DEATH is only to free all sinners from sin so that they have the opportunity to Love in the new earth kingdom of God :-

Revelation of Jesus Christ 20:13 ...and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

the many then are judged not by grace or works in this earth, but by works after they are freed from sin by death , works of love [or sin] in the new earth kingdom come which is a righteous [Loving] new life so countless amny are saved by their Love in the kingdom come by judgement day , NOT judged by their PAST sin in this earth :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

this then shows the lie of mass religion is this earth is NECESSARY , mankind is not READY to Love yet now save a FEW who will obey Jesus and God NOW and build the means to save the many later in the new earth kingdom...

2 Peter 3:13 ... we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[served]

I thought the father draws us to him?

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[JoJo50]

Jer. 29:13 -the LORD, (capital letters), is Jehovah, the God of Israel, not Jesus. Many really need to understand this. He has many who serves him, and many who will come to serve him. But they first have to get to know him. Jesus said to his Father, he made his name known to those HE, (Jehovah God),…sent to him, (John 17:6 -I have manifested, (to make evidence by showing or displaying), thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word). Theses are the people who not just half believe Jesus has a Father. But actually wants to do his Father will. As Jesus said we have to do, if we want to be seen as his spiritual family ,(Matt.12:50-For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).

ANY who seek Jehovah will find him, and it’s Him who’ll send us to Jesus. From that point, we will understand more than we thought we did. And I’m sorry but you’re wrong, this world ISN’T too small for Jehovah God to do anything he feels the need to. And it’s certainly not too small for ALL he created, he created the world to be populated. He never said I only wanted a few people on earth. You’re misunderstanding Jehovah’s words, many do, Here at Isaiah 65:17, Jehovah God didn’t mean he will literally destroy the “HEAVENS” notice the “S” he wasn’t referring to his place of dwelling. The sky is called the heavens also. As for the earth, he’s just going to rid every and any who’s destroying it, people and things. He NEVER said he will destroy the literal earth as many believe from 2 Pet.3:10.

Here’s proof, many ministers won’t show…(Isa. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else). And (Eccles.1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever). Despite the false teachings of ALL going to Heaven. Many of The righteous will live on a renewed, wicked removed ,(Pro. 2:22), earth ,(Psa. 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace). In Isa.67:17, Jehovah God is referring to those who makes it, not remembering things, or people from the past.

I do agree the ways of getting to the new world. We have to try our best to serve Jehovah God, by trying hard to follow Jesus teachings. But when Jesus come to do his Father’s will, which is separate the wheat from the weed. There will be no “sleeping” because that’ll be the end of ALL who refuse to serve the God of Israel. As Pro.2:22 showed, they will be "cut off", meaning destroyed. during the thousand year reign of Jesus and the …144,000 that rule with him over the earth from Heaven, (Rev.5:10 and
Rev.7:4), there will be peace, the wicked gone, satan locked away ,(Rev.20:1-3). If you mean the second death, (Rev.20:6), when you say.., ”second way” it’s referring to those who’s been resurrected to earth, those who wasn’t part of the 144,000, having that Heavenly calling.

ONLY those who were dead before Jesus and had that calling were resurrected and follow Jesus into Heaven ,(1Cor.15:20-23 and Matt.27:50-53). Any dying after Jesus, turns to spirits and goes straight to Heaven. Because they didn’t have to wait like other’s until Jesus died ,then resurrects. The second death refers to ALL who resurrected to earth, lived that “thousand years, and died again once satan was let loose, IF… they fell to satan’s tricks. That “second death” also applies to those faithful who lived right through the great tribulation, (though it really wouldn’t be a “second death” for them), since they never died. Will this time, IF they allowed themselves to be fooled by satan. To put it in a nicer way….after the thousand years, any who let satan once again get to them, they will “sleep” forever, or be totally destroyed right along with satan and his weak-butt- crew.

Agreed, all resurrected are not judge by their past sins. Because their slates were wiped clean once they died. They paid for their sins ,(Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). Rev.20:13 didn’t mean, (like some are taught), these people were judge as soon as Jehovah raised them. That would make no sense judging those who’s in Heaven. And those who’s sent to…”hell” as many believe. The judging comes again, AFTER the thousand years of peace. Also those who make it to the new world, STILL… have to live a righteous life, just having “love” isn’t going to save them. If that was the case many who have much love for mankind, including myself. Will never be destroyed, if it’s JUST base on that, it’s not! So people ALL over the earth, WILL be saved, here in this system. NOT only when the new world come. Those who stand loyal to Jehovah God and try hard to follow Jesus, WILL move on to the new world. peace

 

[strangertoo]

I thought the father draws us to him?

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Well, truly enough God gives us prods in the conscience every time we sin against Him and fellow man . our heart of Love yearns inus to Love and be Loved, our spirit longs to be with God again, our mind understands this world is going so very wrong so very much faster every day... we have PLENTY of input in every way from God to stop sinning and Love one another to be happy from inside so God can baptise us with his Truth...

BUT MOST do not listen yet ...

and God cannot force anyone to Love, Love by its essence MUST be given FREELY... God can show us every way that we would be happy if we didn't sin and we shall be very unhappy indeed if we continue sinning, BUT God cannot decide to STOP sinning for you, you must do that one day for YOURSELF , so that you can at last know God and He will answer your prayers ...

 

[strangertoo]

Jer. 29:13 -the LORD, (capital letters), is Jehovah, the God of Israel, not Jesus. Many really need to understand this. He has many who serves him, and many who will come to serve him. But they first have to get to know him. Jesus said to his Father, he made his name known to those HE, (Jehovah God),…sent to him, (John 17:6 -I have manifested, (to make evidence by showing or displaying), thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word). Theses are the people who not just half believe Jesus has a Father. But actually wants to do his Father will. As Jesus said we have to do, if we want to be seen as his spiritual family ,(Matt.12:50-For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).

Yes, except that those who DO God's will, Love, no more sin, are FEW {matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 67:3-8] in THIS world , MANY more later, but the mANY are destroyed in this life for continued sin [Matt 7:13], will not listen to God and join the few saints [but in fact kill the saints by siding with Satan in sin -Rev 13:3-4-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

ANY who seek Jehovah will find him, and it’s Him who’ll send us to Jesus.

Again, except if they won't stop sinning, one cannot know God unless one Loves, and sin is unloving abuse of God's Truth and of fellow men :-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Love is keeping God's Law, sin is breaking it, so Jesus cannot be one's Lord until one stops disobeying him as lord, stops sinning....

From that point, we will understand more than we thought we did.

Yes, if we STOP sinning then we receive spirit baptism, all Truth from God, absolute reliable Truth and knowing the future [John 16:13]

And I’m sorry but you’re wrong, this world ISN’T too small for Jehovah God to do anything he feels the need to.

Don't quite understand, I never said any such thing ... so what are you referring to ?

And it’s certainly not too small for ALL he created, he created the world to be populated.

well , it's a small point really, but imagine all the creation that ever was ... there isn't enough sunlight falling on this earth to feed them all and it would be twice as over-crowded as now it is ... so it seems reasonable to conclude that the new earth will be larger... but as I said, it's a minor detail really ... if you want to believe that the new earth will be the same size as this one then it's fine by me, we shall see.... it's of little concern now ...

He never said I only wanted a few people on earth. You’re misunderstanding Jehovah’s words, many do,

Well He doesn't really have words , but can inspire words appropriate tothe time and state of progress of man towards Love... so i agree, most folks don't even begin to understand God, they are sinners , they cannot know Love so cannot know God ... but one can't misunderstand the Holy Spirit, even if one can't put it into words [much is ineffable, we have no words yet for it because so fe folks understand God, understand the spirit, because almost all are still sinners]

Here at Isaiah 65:17, Jehovah God didn’t mean he will literally destroy the “HEAVENS” notice the “S” he wasn’t referring to his place of dwelling. The sky is called the heavens also. As for the earth, he’s just going to rid every and any who’s destroying it, people and things. He NEVER said he will destroy the literal earth as many believe from 2 Pet.3:10.

But Jesus says the earth will pass away and we shall have both a new earth and a new heavens :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

{and I accept that the word 'heaven' is a mistranslation, 'heavens' is always a 'plural' )

Here’s proof, many ministers won’t show…(Isa. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else).

I don't deny God created this universe, in fact the accuracy of its creation in mind-blowing , an error as low as one part in 1,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo in ANY of the parameters of creation and the universe would never have been inhabited ... men worked this out by science but still most refuse to Love God by Loving one another, no sinning against each other and God ... respect is hard earned with God , men mostly prefer to respect sinners... and the consequences are sad indeed, we have committed our earth to become lifeless , brken the web of life, and are just waiting to all die [except a few who stopped sinning and Love whom God will use to create the righteous new earth kingdom come at last, and after a thousand years of perfect Love with no Satan, no sinners, the big TASK , salvation of all sinners, beginning with countless many by' judgement day' -Rev 7:9-10 who were destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13]

So it wouldn't matter if the 'new earth' were this earth re-vitalised somehow , but God for His own reasons chooses to re-create the heavens and the earth anew ... but again, this is really a small detail , as I say, it wouldn't make any difference if the new earth were this earth reconditioned somehow ... Gods choice, but we have alreday committed this earth to death of life on it with our sin of modern ways of life, greed, uncaring, injustice, wars, lies, fornications, every kind of sin and getting worse ... the planet left to global warming, extreme volcanism, mass extinction of species by mankind, soil erosion, denuding forests, ... not enough time or room here to write it all... just a disaster waiting for countless crises to arrive at once ...as described will come in scripture

And (Eccles.1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever). Despite the false teachings of ALL going to Heaven. Many of The righteous will live on a renewed, wicked removed ,(Pro. 2:22), earth

Sadly it's just a mistranslation as 'for ever' ... the earth cannot live indefinitely, we know that because all energy gets degraded into heat and heat dissipates... it's called 'entropic doom' and guarantees that mankind will end in this universe some day... there is no forever here ... and the word so badly translated actually means 'to the age' , as many have pointed out, which makes sense , an age is a long BUT FINITE time... and the earth amazingly [we now know how amazingly, uniquely, lasts far longer than any other planet to allow life toevolve and create mankind from God's beginnings , eday for God to provide man with a spirit , so man can know Love, know God, now all Truth, become one with God eventually, as spirit .... for man is made in the image of God, which is spirit, not flesh... our essence is indestructible spirit not transient flesh :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God

who gave it.

,(Psa. 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace). In Isa.67:17, Jehovah God is referring to those who makes it, not remembering things, or people from the past.

Yes but you forget what Jesus said, his kingdom is on earth, but NOT THIS earth [except in the hearts and minds of the few saints who come NEAR everyone on earth eventually - but FEW respond by ceasing sin against God and men] ... many think the kingdom is in heaven, but the saints rule UNDER JESUS on the earth, just NOT this earth

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world...

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I do agree the ways of getting to the new world. We have to try our best to serve Jehovah God, by trying hard to follow Jesus teachings.

Few obey God in this life and Love now , no more sin [Matt 7:14, 2 Timothy 2:19] which is all God requires as kings and priests PERFECTED in Love in this earth to set up and later rule the kingdom come in the new earth ... Jesus takes only tens of thousands of saints at his return [Jude 1:14] and most of these resurrected first from death down the two millennia since he came first ... so in the earth now there can only be about two thousand following Jesus , about one in three million alive today is a saint then ... it is that few [Rev 7:3-8] sealed by God in spirit baptism to know all Truth now rather than when God baptises all flesh in the kingdom come [Joel 2:28]

so understand that dying a sinner now is NOT the end of salvation at all, as sinners teach in churches of sinners, but MOST are saved afterwards [Rev 7:9-10] in the kingdom come set up and eventually ruled by the FEW when the many are all resurrected from hell and death and countless many are saved by works [not grace] as Jesus promises[Rev 20:13, Rev 7:9-10] despite that they were all destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13] for the spirit of a man is of God, it cannot be destroyed even with utter destruction of the body [but the bdy without the spirit is dead utterly]

But when Jesus come to do his Father’s will, which is separate the wheat from the weed.

Jesus indeed separates the saints from all who still sin , and there are but a FEW saints [Jude 1:14] indeed 144,000 [Rev 7:3-8] and themany are destroyed [Matt 7:13] but we KNOW that countless many are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] so we know that destruction of this earth cannot destroy the spirit of men ,which always returns to God who gave it... but the spirit of sinners cannot remain with God, it must be resurrected... so God creates a new earth and hevaens and resurrects all from hell and death and the FEW miniister and rule by Love under Jesus as king of kings and high priest in his kingdom come... but who do they rule and serve? - the resurrected sinners of this earth ! ...countless many later saved at judgement day by works of Love in the kingdom AFTER death frees them from sin , not grace

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

so we know why the wages of sin are only death, because God is Love, not tyranny ... God know many never even knew of Jesus in this life , many lived before jesus came, never kne even of the Hebrews or God, still-births ever even saw the world, infants died young, etc... loads of folks get their first big opportunity to love in the kingdom come ... and billions are saved there, not here , Jesus says AFTERWARDS [Rev 7:9-10] - we know FEW perfect Love in THIS word, this life ...Matt 7:14 and the many are destroyed now [Matt 7:13]

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

so 'trying' isn't good enough, one has to be perfect, and that is why so few find the way, most don't even believe they can be perfect like Jesus and God ... but God can make anyone, everyone, perfect ,in time and it is His declared will to do so, and no-one can stop Him doing so ... He even says so in scripture ... well worth reading , for then one knows Love better, that it simply cannot be for a few or many, but MUST be for all...

the shepherd goes back even for one lost sheep ... but knows only few can be saved in this life, so we all have another life who didn't make it this time, and even a third life after a second death frees from sin yet again those who sin in the kingdom... but then God denies death to prevent suicide of those who find they were wrong who defied God so long... time goes on then in the lake of fire until they truly completely repent, and the mercy of God endures to the end of time, never fails because of Love...

thus God can indeed persuade all to accept Jesus and so Love and be saved eventually, but it takes all time in two earths for all to reach the third heaven, no third earth , note this ... nowhere else to go in the end but translation to spirit after perfecting Love in life, because life must end as it is physical... endless life s with God in spirit... creating new worlds endlessly , which all end too ...

Jesus' promise which you deny somehow, that all creation will accept him [and so be svaed through Love as he requires of all]

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [-believe now, in this earth, who will build the kingdom for the many saved later]

 

[served]

Yes, except that those who DO God's will, Love, no more sin, are FEW {matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 67:3-8] in THIS world , MANY more later, but the mANY are destroyed in this life for continued sin [Matt 7:13], will not listen to God and join the few saints [but in fact kill the saints by siding with Satan in sin -Rev 13:3-4-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil


Again, except if they won't stop sinning, one cannot know God unless one Loves, and sin is unloving abuse of God's Truth and of fellow men :-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Love is keeping God's Law, sin is breaking it, so Jesus cannot be one's Lord until one stops disobeying him as lord, stops sinning....


Yes, if we STOP sinning then we receive spirit baptism, all Truth from God, absolute reliable Truth and knowing the future [John 16:13]


Don't quite understand, I never said any such thing ... so what are you referring to ?


well , it's a small point really, but imagine all the creation that ever was ... there isn't enough sunlight falling on this earth to feed them all and it would be twice as over-crowded as now it is ... so it seems reasonable to conclude that the new earth will be larger... but as I said, it's a minor detail really ... if you want to believe that the new earth will be the same size as this one then it's fine by me, we shall see.... it's of little concern now ...



Well He doesn't really have words , but can inspire words appropriate tothe time and state of progress of man towards Love... so i agree, most folks don't even begin to understand God, they are sinners , they cannot know Love so cannot know God ... but one can't misunderstand the Holy Spirit, even if one can't put it into words [much is ineffable, we have no words yet for it because so fe folks understand God, understand the spirit, because almost all are still sinners]

But Jesus says the earth will pass away and we shall have both a new earth and a new heavens :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

{and I accept that the word 'heaven' is a mistranslation, 'heavens' is always a 'plural' )



I don't deny God created this universe, in fact the accuracy of its creation in mind-blowing , an error as low as one part in 1,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo in ANY of the parameters of creation and the universe would never have been inhabited ... men worked this out by science but still most refuse to Love God by Loving one another, no sinning against each other and God ... respect is hard earned with God , men mostly prefer to respect sinners... and the consequences are sad indeed, we have committed our earth to become lifeless , brken the web of life, and are just waiting to all die [except a few who stopped sinning and Love whom God will use to create the righteous new earth kingdom come at last, and after a thousand years of perfect Love with no Satan, no sinners, the big TASK , salvation of all sinners, beginning with countless many by' judgement day' -Rev 7:9-10 who were destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13]

So it wouldn't matter if the 'new earth' were this earth re-vitalised somehow , but God for His own reasons chooses to re-create the heavens and the earth anew ... but again, this is really a small detail , as I say, it wouldn't make any difference if the new earth were this earth reconditioned somehow ... Gods choice, but we have alreday committed this earth to death of life on it with our sin of modern ways of life, greed, uncaring, injustice, wars, lies, fornications, every kind of sin and getting worse ... the planet left to global warming, extreme volcanism, mass extinction of species by mankind, soil erosion, denuding forests, ... not enough time or room here to write it all... just a disaster waiting for countless crises to arrive at once ...as described will come in scripture



Sadly it's just a mistranslation as 'for ever' ... the earth cannot live indefinitely, we know that because all energy gets degraded into heat and heat dissipates... it's called 'entropic doom' and guarantees that mankind will end in this universe some day... there is no forever here ... and the word so badly translated actually means 'to the age' , as many have pointed out, which makes sense , an age is a long BUT FINITE time... and the earth amazingly [we now know how amazingly, uniquely, lasts far longer than any other planet to allow life toevolve and create mankind from God's beginnings , eday for God to provide man with a spirit , so man can know Love, know God, now all Truth, become one with God eventually, as spirit .... for man is made in the image of God, which is spirit, not flesh... our essence is indestructible spirit not transient flesh :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God

who gave it.

Yes but you forget what Jesus said, his kingdom is on earth, but NOT THIS earth [except in the hearts and minds of the few saints who come NEAR everyone on earth eventually - but FEW respond by ceasing sin against God and men] ... many think the kingdom is in heaven, but the saints rule UNDER JESUS on the earth, just NOT this earth

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world...

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Few obey God in this life and Love now , no more sin [Matt 7:14, 2 Timothy 2:19] which is all God requires as kings and priests PERFECTED in Love in this earth to set up and later rule the kingdom come in the new earth ... Jesus takes only tens of thousands of saints at his return [Jude 1:14] and most of these resurrected first from death down the two millennia since he came first ... so in the earth now there can only be about two thousand following Jesus , about one in three million alive today is a saint then ... it is that few [Rev 7:3-8] sealed by God in spirit baptism to know all Truth now rather than when God baptises all flesh in the kingdom come [Joel 2:28]

so understand that dying a sinner now is NOT the end of salvation at all, as sinners teach in churches of sinners, but MOST are saved afterwards [Rev 7:9-10] in the kingdom come set up and eventually ruled by the FEW when the many are all resurrected from hell and death and countless many are saved by works [not grace] as Jesus promises[Rev 20:13, Rev 7:9-10] despite that they were all destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13] for the spirit of a man is of God, it cannot be destroyed even with utter destruction of the body [but the bdy without the spirit is dead utterly]


Jesus indeed separates the saints from all who still sin , and there are but a FEW saints [Jude 1:14] indeed 144,000 [Rev 7:3-8] and themany are destroyed [Matt 7:13] but we KNOW that countless many are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] so we know that destruction of this earth cannot destroy the spirit of men ,which always returns to God who gave it... but the spirit of sinners cannot remain with God, it must be resurrected... so God creates a new earth and hevaens and resurrects all from hell and death and the FEW miniister and rule by Love under Jesus as king of kings and high priest in his kingdom come... but who do they rule and serve? - the resurrected sinners of this earth ! ...countless many later saved at judgement day by works of Love in the kingdom AFTER death frees them from sin , not grace

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

so we know why the wages of sin are only death, because God is Love, not tyranny ... God know many never even knew of Jesus in this life , many lived before jesus came, never kne even of the Hebrews or God, still-births ever even saw the world, infants died young, etc... loads of folks get their first big opportunity to love in the kingdom come ... and billions are saved there, not here , Jesus says AFTERWARDS [Rev 7:9-10] - we know FEW perfect Love in THIS word, this life ...Matt 7:14 and the many are destroyed now [Matt 7:13]

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

so 'trying' isn't good enough, one has to be perfect, and that is why so few find the way, most don't even believe they can be perfect like Jesus and God ... but God can make anyone, everyone, perfect ,in time and it is His declared will to do so, and no-one can stop Him doing so ... He even says so in scripture ... well worth reading , for then one knows Love better, that it simply cannot be for a few or many, but MUST be for all...

the shepherd goes back even for one lost sheep ... but knows only few can be saved in this life, so we all have another life who didn't make it this time, and even a third life after a second death frees from sin yet again those who sin in the kingdom... but then God denies death to prevent suicide of those who find they were wrong who defied God so long... time goes on then in the lake of fire until they truly completely repent, and the mercy of God endures to the end of time, never fails because of Love...

thus God can indeed persuade all to accept Jesus and so Love and be saved eventually, but it takes all time in two earths for all to reach the third heaven, no third earth , note this ... nowhere else to go in the end but translation to spirit after perfecting Love in life, because life must end as it is physical... endless life s with God in spirit... creating new worlds endlessly , which all end too ...

Jesus' promise which you deny somehow, that all creation will accept him [and so be svaed through Love as he requires of all]

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [-believe now, in this earth, who will build the kingdom for the many saved later]

I will ponder this for awhile. Thanks! I believe most of what you believe here. Its very interesting to see these separated states of righteousness on paper. Do you have some more scripture that can back up saints or elect vs the unrighteous at present. I've been struggling to figure these things out in my head and from scripture. I do not have any issue's knowing all will eventually be saved but just the order...
Thanks!

 

[strangertoo]

I will ponder this for awhile. Thanks! I believe most of what you believe here. Its very interesting to see these separated states of righteousness on paper. Do you have some more scripture that can back up saints or elect vs the unrighteous at present. I've been struggling to figure these things out in my head and from scripture. I do not have any issue's knowing all will eventually be saved but just the order...
Thanks!

I think the first point is Matt 7:13-14 ... the FEW are saved the MANY all destroyed ...

then realise that the FEW are all saints , none that are still sinners , because the kingdom has to be PURE Love , that is why God teaches all saints Himself in spirit baptism [once they seek Him show their will to obey Him by ceasing from all sin they know about in themselves :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

note then that stopping sinning is the seal and the foundation , the first step without which there is no spirit baptism, and without spirit baptism there can be no entering the kingdom...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

so water baptism first, death to sin, the will to stop sinning made REAL ... and MOST fail this first step and are destroyed with this earth and heavens in the wrath of God against all sinners.... but WHY destroy the creation ?

well we can see mankind is already destroying the viability of the earth, we are already in mass extinction of species , the web of life broken , and destroying the environment, the trees, the stability of weather, the climate, the sea, the soil , and letting 50,000 poor starve daily in misery to death...

sin is not reducing, it is increasing and killing us , we are already committed to eventual death of mankind at our own hands , we have destroyed our earth's capacity to support us , killed ourselves, just waiting to die...so rather than re-make this earth God will just create a new universe , it's what He does , does well... and our spirit, the spirit of all men, is of God, we are only alive by our spirit , the body without the spirit is dead, and the spirit is of God, indestructible as God is , returns to God,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

but the spirit of sinners must return to life to learn to Love in life, so God simply makes a new earth, new heavens and sets those who Loved in this life, the FEW there to make the kingdom come under Jesus supervision :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

not that it is not in the heavens either as some suppose :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

so the FEW are just the kings and priests of Jesus' kingdom come in the new earth :-

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

note that righteousness is simply Love , obeying Jesus' commandment to Love... note that sin is NOT Love , sin is the only thing that excludes folks from the kingdom , because Jesus finally RULES as king of kings and high priest in his kingdom , no-one can stay who disobeys by sin ...

so who do these kings rule over , these priests minister to by Love ?

it can only be the resurrected sinners of this earth , and so once the kingdom is ready , after a thousand years with no Satan, no sinners, then ALL who ever died are released from hell and death, resurrected to see if they are then ready to Love or not in the Loving kingdom [Rev 20:13], so they get to the new universe by resurrection from ther spirit, and the reason? simply that this sis the next stage in God's slavation of craetion from sin to Love and then back to the spirit with no need to manifest as flesh again [except in service to others in God's Plan]

so how many are the FEW saved first at Jesus' return... Jude1:14 Jude and Enoch say tens of thousands of saints with Jesus... Jesus says 144,000 [Rev 7:3-8] SEALED ....

so billions will die in this earth and the end is terrible because God cannot save men who won't obey Him, who sin against man and God, and man has made it impossible for man to live on earth much longer, we made it terrible for ourselves and God's 'wrath' is simply that there is no way to help men who won't listen to God and Love instead of sinning against Him and each other...

BUT we know form Jesus that by judgement day countless many of all nations are saved [Rev 7:9-10] by works of Love after resurrection from hell [Rev 20:13]in the new earth kingdom ... so God's plan bears major fruit, billions saved because God uses those who Loved in THIS earth to make a Loving place where many learn to Love and be happy later , so are saved [Rev 7:9-10] ...

that then only leaves those evil men who still follow Satan and sin in the new earth after God baptises all flesh [Joel 2:28] to know His Truth[John 16:13] at the first opportunity to do so , the new earth resiurrection of the countless billions of sinners of this earth FREED FROM SIN by DEATH :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

so we see WHY teh wages of sin is death, death frees men from sin, itbis an act of Love then, freeing billions from sin so that many, countless many immediately see Love is a better way and CHOOSE Love freely in the kingdom come

so those who still sin NEED to die a second death to free them from sin yet again , because Love DEMANDS that God save everyone ... the spirit has to return to God FREE eventually of any need to manifest as a physical being ... there is nowhere else to go ! ... so we have the final baptism of fire, the third baptism everyone must go through to be saved [translated free of death to spirit] , trail of Love to perfect it... Jesus was trialled in unjust death after temptation by Satan, the saints of this earth too are mostly trialled to death for Love :-

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

the most evil men create their own trial in the lake of fire, but God has to deny them death else they will simply commit suicide when they realise what they have done with two lives of continual sin ...

Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

they are trapped then with each other, the evil suffering evil from the evil because God has already saved most others who used to be easy prey for the evil, th better among men are no longer there to be preyed upon, the evil suffer their own sin themselves from each other , poetic justice that rapidly brings at last repentance and the enduring mercy of God :-

Psalms 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

thus , as Jesus promises, ALL creation will accept him as king and so Love in his kingdom eventually, the last baptism of fire is in the lake of fire... no-one dies again for sin, sin is over, Love has won, all glory to the God of Love and Jesus who made it happen for all men to Love :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

NOTE : 'specially' those who are first to believe in Love, in God, oin Jesus, in this earth, enough to stop sinning and so be baptised of the spirit first to be able to serve as kings and priests later in the salvation of countless many destroyed in this earth...

BUT my friend, learning from scripture is NOT God's way because He has a better way that is SURE, absolute ... simply stop sinning [water baptism] and God will baptise with His own spirit to know ALL Truth form God, not from emn or books, not even from saints , from god [John 16:13] and then one can be TRIALLED to prove one's Love in baptism of fire to show one will not fail God in the new earth as a priest and king under Jesus... saving just as many as Jesus has saved in this earth... or one can die with billions in the terrible death of this earth and be saved later by the ministry of others who Love now, follow Jesus now...

so if ceasing sin, the foundation of God, God will answer you at last, respond to prayers teach everything... vastly easier that trying to piece together scripture, and everyone has to do the three baptisms sometime ... really it up to us when we stop sinning and Love becayse Love by its esence must be given freely to all, God cannot make anyone Love, ithas to come through them from God with their acceptance of being Loving, no more sin :

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

he wages of sin are death to free one from sin... that is Love

 

[Soulgazer]

2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death —
even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
<>
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


(Philippians)

It is not possible for anyone to see anything of the things that actually exist unless he becomes like them. This is not the way with man in the world: he sees the sun without being a sun; and he sees the heaven and the earth and all other things, but he is not these things. This is quite in keeping with the truth. But you saw something of that place, and you became those things. You saw the Spirit, you became spirit. You saw Christ, you became Christ. You saw the Father, you shall become Father. So in this place you see everything and do not see yourself, but in that place you do see yourself - and what you see you shall become.
Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given. He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew.



(Philip)

 

[strangertoo]

it is consistently noticeable in my observations' that sectarian teachings of men's traditions whilst they differ in meaning have the same structure which is the cause of their differences , some truth, some dogma of the past ...it is a great pity for billions of men that the beauty of the Truth of God can be turned against itself by simply inserting a little unlovingness and selling it as a package deal... this though is the long-established pattern in mass religion, sectarianism when God's Truth and His saints are one... and the main focus of deceit is to deprive Israel of support from the gentiles despite that Israel arethe only ones who can save the gentiles , depsite their own problems of mass religion as corrupt as any ...
but the tell-tale signs are when one sect attacks another with words, sometimes subtly, sometimes unsubtly and even with violence... but the point is that division is not Love, that is the give-away ... neither even can be right ... so consider how many are alive in the church of God today, about two thousand... all saints... simply realise then that this is no mass religion that Jesus started, he only came to do what God set him to do, find the remnant of the house of Israel to satisfy the prophecies of God, so man would know when they stop arguing against Israel that God HAS chosen them , not for themselves, but because God named them so they must be His priests and kings in the kingdom else God wold be seen to have failed in prophecy, to not be able to tell the end from the beginning, and that is simply impossible ...

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles.

Jesus the Jew , king of the Jews [Christ, Messiah] with his Jewish disciples all looking for the other part of Israel, the lost House of Israel amongst the gentiles, because God will re-unite the two nations as a holy nation of priest-kings to rule the gentiles in the kingdom come...

Is this popular with the gentiles, no... does that make any difference , yes, but not to the end result...

So God rejected Israel's two Houses and gentiles preach this loud and clear, but then forget that God then accepts them again ina new covenant with those whose fayjers broke the old covenant :-

I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers ...
[Heb 8:8-12,
THE new covenant, the only one, and with Israel, no-one else , given only to Israel by Jeremiah their prophet -Jer 31:31-34 , copied by Paul because his task is to teach the gentiles about Israel , as apostle to the gentiles, that Israel will save first all Israel by means of a remnant few saints of Israel in this world , and then RULE the gentiles in the kingdom come, minister to the gentiles as priests and kings by Love ]

the world of powermongers cannot bear this and so anti-Semitism was born and permeated every single mass religion, even those claiming to be based on the same scriptures in which this covenant between Israel and God is written clear as day ...

but it matters not, it must be so and it gets worse as the powermongers unite mass religions against the few saints of Israel to try their Love... but ironically the salvation of all men now depends upon those few saints holding out until Jesus returns to take them to the new earth to build the kingdom come to save the billions who will now unite in false religion against them...

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: