Women in authority? (3)

[2ducklow]

To be honest, there's no such thing as emasculation of a gender. There's just individuality and not fitting into weird stereotypes, and that's a good thing.

That's not true, not all guys want to act "masculine", everyone's different.

That's not true as well, since long hair is actually natural for everyone. People generally decide to cut their hair (sometimes longer, and sometimes shorter) and that's unnatural. But it's nothing bad, because unnatural doesn't mean wrong.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

I take that verse to mean men shouldn't have long hair and that if they do they dishonor themselves.

1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

I take that verse to mean women need long hair for a covering and her long hair is a glory to her. I take those scriptures to also mean that a woman with short hair has no glory and she dishonors her head. I find it inconceivable to interpret these scriptures to mean men can have long hair and women can have burr hair cuts and there is nothing wrong with it as your statemtents assert.

 

[*Starlight*]

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

I take that verse to mean men shouldn't have long hair and that if they do they dishonor themselves.

1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

I take that verse to mean women need long hair for a covering and her long hair is a glory to her. I take those scriptures to also mean that a woman with short hair has no glory and she dishonors her head. I find it inconceivable to interpret these scriptures to mean men can have long hair and women can have burr hair cuts and there is nothing wrong with it as your statemtents assert.

Well, people at that time believed in lots of crazy things. But it doesn't mean that they were right.... for example, people then believed that slavery was good, but it's not. And, in the same way, they were wrong about hair. There's nothing bad about a man having long hair, or a woman having short hair, it doesn't harm anyone.

 

[2ducklow]

Well, people at that time believed in lots of crazy things. But it doesn't mean that they were right.... for example, people then believed that slavery was good, but it's not. And, in the same way, they were wrong about hair. There's nothing bad about a man having long hair, or a woman having short hair, it doesn't harm anyone.

then the question is are we talking about what god thinks or what people think,
I believe 1 cor. 11 is what God thinks. So I believe that nature teaches that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him. I furthermore believe that a shame is a bad thing and not a good thing.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
\
I believe 1 cor. 11.14 is what god things, not what people think.

 

[*Starlight*]

then the question is are we talking about what god thinks or what people think,
I believe 1 cor. 11 is what God thinks. So I believe that nature teaches that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him. I furthermore believe that a shame is a bad thing and not a good thing.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
\
I believe 1 cor. 11.14 is what god things, not what people think.

I don't believe that's what God thinks. God makes each person naturally with hair which grows quite long (unless someone's bald). Cutting your hair is an unnatural thing, no matter if you're male or female.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Christ told us to obey the word.

Now you are gonna have to back that claim up with scripture!

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Now you are gonna have to back that claim up with scripture!

Jesus said, abide in me and my words in you

Jesus said the law and the prophets were those that testified of him

Jesus told us we shouldn't sin

Jesus told us we should keep the commandments

Jesus is the word..

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God

We are to obey the word the word tells us not to sin, to repent of our sins... the word tells us we must be born again... the word tells us that he came to lay down his life a sacrifice and that no man comes to the father but through him, that, he is the only path to God and there is no other...

etc., etc.

 

[Floatingaxe]

then the question is are we talking about what god thinks or what people think,
I believe 1 cor. 11 is what God thinks. So I believe that nature teaches that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him. I furthermore believe that a shame is a bad thing and not a good thing.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
\
I believe 1 cor. 11.14 is what god things, not what people think.

Religiosity and legalism is Satan's doing.

 

[Rick Otto]

...and part-time positions are always available!

 

[2ducklow]

I don't believe that's what God thinks. God makes each person naturally with hair which grows quite long (unless someone's bald). Cutting your hair is an unnatural thing, no matter if you're male or female.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

The word is nature, not natural. Nature teaches that a man with long hair dishonors himself. unless you believe that 1 cor. 11.14 is a lie. You haven't addressed the issue which is that the bible says that a man with long hair goes against nature and dishonors himself. either you believe it is God's word or you don't. only two choices you got.

If you are going to insist that nature means natural and that cutting hair goes against nature or is unnatural, then you are believing the opposite of what the word of God says. For the bible says long hair goes against nature for a man. you say the opposite, you say a man cutting his hair is doing something unnatural (assuming you believe nature and natural are the same thing which your statements indicate).

It's beginning to appear to me that you do not believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God, including 1 cor. 11.14. If so then we don't have a common sourse for truth. because I believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God, including 1 cor. 11.14. what say ye?

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Jesus said, abide in me and my words in you

Jesus said the law and the prophets were those that testified of him

Jesus told us we shouldn't sin

Jesus told us we should keep the commandments

Jesus is the word..

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God

We are to obey the word the word tells us not to sin, to repent of our sins... the word tells us we must be born again... the word tells us that he came to lay down his life a sacrifice and that no man comes to the father but through him, that, he is the only path to God and there is no other...

etc., etc.

Now you're consfusing the issue.

Are you referring to the Torah, to the Law, to Jesus or to the Gospels and Epistles?

Cos the verses you quoted all refer to different things.

Jesus being the Word is very different to the Law and the Torah and Pauls letters.

Please clarify which Word we are commanded by Jesus to follow?

Jesus himself reduces the law to Love.

 

[TexasSky]

any woman acting like a woman brings out the man in a man. A man has a natural instinct to protect women, and if women act like men, look like men, then men aren't near as inclined to treat them as females. Hair length is a big part of acting out the female role. Don't think so just try saying to some guy, " oh this box is way to heavy for me could one of you big strong fellas lift it up for me?" You'll see how eager the average guy is to take on the male role. Guys wanna act masculine around feminine females, not so much of an incentitive when the female is masculine. The act of having short hair is a male act, thus women with short hair are acting maleish with thier short hair whether they know it or not. And the church is loaded with short haired women. It is just as much an abomination for a woman to have short hair as it is for a man to have long hair.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

It is against the nature of a man to have long hair because long hair is the domain of women it is part of their attire, and men wearing what pertains to women (long hair) is an abomination before God. short hair on women and long hair on men is an abomination before god.

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

women with short hair are acting abominably before God and what's god gonna do? bless um? No he's gonna send um spirits so they act even more like men, which he has done.

I cannot believe you actually think a woman's hair length has anything to do with whether or not you treat her like a lady or not.

The world is full of men who PREFER their ladies wear shorter hair. The world is full of wonderful women who are bald because of medical reasons.

All of that, however, is irrelevant.

A man's relationship with God is NOT dependent upon a man's attitude toward the women in his life. Leadership in God's church is about a relationship with God.

How many times have you walked into a church and seen twice as many women there as men? How many times have you noticed Sunday School departments where the number of female teachers outnumber the male teachers by at least 2 to 1? How many "children's ministers" are women compared to how many men?

Is it any wonder that young Christian men have difficulty finding a place in God's house when they see a sea of women teaching, and few men?

 

[TexasSky]

P.S.,

I have never worn a man's garment in my life. I have, though worn pants designed for women to wear, and shirts that no man who is not into cross dressing would wear.

 

[2ducklow]

I cannot believe you actually think a woman's hair length has anything to do with whether or not you treat her like a lady or not.

The world is full of men who PREFER their ladies wear shorter hair. The world is full of wonderful women who are bald because of medical reasons.

All of that, however, is irrelevant.

true, it is all irrelevant, what is relevant is this.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

1 Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

A man's relationship with God is NOT dependent upon a man's attitude toward the women in his life. Leadership in God's church is about a relationship with God.

.

How many times have you walked into a church and seen twice as many women there as men? How many times have you noticed Sunday School departments where the number of female teachers outnumber the male teachers by at least 2 to 1? How many "children's ministers" are women compared to how many men?

Not in my church, there are just as many men as women and no women pastors, bible teachers, or any other posistion where a female is over a male.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Perhaps the women in the churchs you go to are driving the men out. but not where I go. at any rate, scripture isn't dependant upon our opinions and scripture says women aint suppose to have dominion or authority over men, period.

Is it any wonder that young Christian men have difficulty finding a place in God's house when they see a sea of women teaching, and few men?

well they probably are looking at the wrong churches, they should look to churches where the whole word of god is preached, includeing 1 cor. 11 and 1 tim 2.12. and not churches that cut out every scripture they don't like. seems to me there are a great number of christians who consider 1 cor. 11 and 1 tim 2.12 anathema. But I'm here to tell ya that 1 cor. 11 and 1 tim 2.12 aint gonna go away never.HALLELUJAH THANK YOU JESUS GLORY I'm takin my stand on the word of God that declares the victory and as I stand upon the word of God the victory will be mine, demons may rage but I will not be moved, the word of God declares the victory.

 

[*Starlight*]

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

The word is nature, not natural. Nature teaches that a man with long hair dishonors himself. unless you believe that 1 cor. 11.14 is a lie. You haven't addressed the issue which is that the bible says that a man with long hair goes against nature and dishonors himself. either you believe it is God's word or you don't. only two choices you got.

If you are going to insist that nature means natural and that cutting hair goes against nature or is unnatural, then you are believing the opposite of what the word of God says. For the bible says long hair goes against nature for a man. you say the opposite, you say a man cutting his hair is doing something unnatural (assuming you believe nature and natural are the same thing which your statements indicate).

It's beginning to appear to me that you do not believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God, including 1 cor. 11.14. If so then we don't have a common sourse for truth. because I believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God, including 1 cor. 11.14. what say ye?

Well, I don't believe that everything said in the Bible is absolutely true, because some things there are factually inaccurate. Having long or short hair, no matter what gender you have, doesn't cause any harm, so that's why it's not even an issue of morality.

And...what do you mean when you say that natural and nature aren't the same? I don't understand you here... natural means that something's inborn, and happens in nature.

 

[2ducklow]

Well, I don't believe that everything said in the Bible is absolutely true, because some things there are factually inaccurate. Having long or short hair, no matter what gender you have, doesn't cause any harm, so that's why it's not even an issue of morality.

And...what do you mean when you say that natural and nature aren't the same? I don't understand you here... natural means that something's inborn, and happens in nature.

nature
1.the material world, esp. as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities. 2.the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization. 3.the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers. 4.natural scenery. 5.the universe, with all its phenomena. 6.the sum total of the forces at work throughout the universe. 7.reality, as distinguished from any effect of art: a portrait true to nature.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature

natural
1.existing in or formed by nature (opposed to artificial): a natural bridge. 2.based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process. 3.of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty. 4.of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments. 5.in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land. 6.growing spontaneously, without being planted or tended by human hand, as vegetation. 7.having undergone little or no processing and containing no chemical additives: natural food; natural ingredients. Compare organic (def. 11). 8.having a real or physical existence, as opposed to one that is spiritual, intellectual, fictitious, etc. 9.of, pertaining to, or proper to the nature or essential constitution: natural ability. 10.proper to the circumstances of the case: a natural result of his greed. 11.free from affectation or constraint: a natural manner. 12.arising easily or spontaneously: a natural courtesy to strangers.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural


nature teaches that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him. shame is a bad. I guess def. 3 of nature would apply here. Unnatural does not teach nor does natural teach, it is nature that teaches that long hair is a shame unto a man. by saying it is unnatural to cut hair, you divert from the topic which is that it is against nature for a man to have long hair, according to the bible. you use unnatural in the sense of a human act that doesn't o\ccur in nature naturally. all an attempt to divert from the topic of scripture which flatlly states that nature teaches that long hair on a man is a shame. you say everything in the bible isn't absolutely true, i say everything in the bible is absolutely true. so we have no common ground for truth. your ground for truth is what you feel is true, mine is what the bible says. v I'm gonna go by what the b ible says and not by what starlight, or nadine, or anybody else including my self feels is right.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Religiosity and legalism is Satan's doing.

Says the site's number 1 fan of Biblical legalism!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Well, I don't believe that everything said in the Bible is absolutely true, because some things there are factually inaccurate. Having long or short hair, no matter what gender you have, doesn't cause any harm, so that's why it's not even an issue of morality.

And...what do you mean when you say that natural and nature aren't the same? I don't understand you here... natural means that something's inborn, and happens in nature.

Yeah... but its much more fun if you can accuse homosexuals of being "unnatural"... you just have to redefine "nature" a little... to mean "anything I personally think is acceptable is therefore natural"

 

[Floatingaxe]

Says the site's number 1 fan of Biblical legalism!

Sorry to disappoint you. I am not legalistic.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yeah... but its much more fun if you can accuse homosexuals of being "unnatural"... you just have to redefine "nature" a little... to mean "anything I personally think is acceptable is therefore natural"

It's homosexuals who are busy redefining natural!

You need to adopt other reasons for posting. This is not a homosexual thread...

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Sorry to disappoint you. I am not legalistic.

Um, you demand blind adherance to outdated OT legalistic principles... can you give a BETTER example of "legalistic?"

It's homosexuals who are busy redefining natural!

Well, how about YOU define "natural" for us? I'd say "natural" is anything "occuring in nature"... but if you got more info, I'd love to hear it