WoF verses Non-WoF

[dkbwarrior]

Like I've already said, I've been ganged up on by 4 or more WoF on this thread, so I find myself answering accusations by 4 or more people. Do the math.

Besides, my reference was to total posts compared with membership years, which does show them posting between 5 to 10 times more often than I do.


peace,
Simon

Well, I could say I have been ganged up on by four non-WOF in this thread. I guess it is all in your perspective.

Objectively, it has been four on one side, and four on the other.

Peace...

 

[charityagape]

I've never said that the curses prayed by prosperity gospel leaders, to come upon those who criticise them, have no power. They obviously have the power to intimidate.
As for the curse having spiritual power, I don't know. When they mess with curses they may even harness the power of Satan. In which case Christians better have full armour or they could be affected.

In the case of threats and intimidation by WoF leaders, this again has the power to intimidate.


The power to intimidate only exists if you believe someone has the power to harm you. But it seems you do believe that a WOF minister CAN use the power of Satsn to strike someone without faith with cancer. That's dumb. And it's ascribing more power to Satan that to God.




I've told you before, here's some membership years verses posts:

Simon Peter: 8 years 1,900 posts

Charityagape: 7 years 7,000 posts
Simply Put: 6 years 11,000 posts
probinson: 7 years 16,000 posts

Now who's intensely wasting vast amounts of their time more?


I'm not wasting my time. I don't have any cause here accept pure enjoyment. I'm not trying to protect anybody from the big bad WOF accusers. WOF ministers take no more notice of little accuser than they do a fly.



You've used the word "crackpot" at least four times, I've never used that word.

You're rather punctilious. No you did not use the word crackpot. And I never said you did. But its not an unreasonable conclusion to draw. In any case their are a dozen or a dozen words you could use to replace this one. Doesn't matter to me. Not a single name you'd use would be pleasant.

 

[hislegacy]

First accusation:

So in the cases of:

Benny Hinn
Paul Crouch
Ken Copeland
Kenneth Hagin (threats of death)
peace,
Simon

Second time:

In these cases of leaders cursing those that oppose them, I don't see God in it. Do you?


peace,
Simon

Third time:

Yes, I agree. There are Biblical cases of leaders cursing those that oppose them. My question is, in the cases cited earlier in the thread:

Benny Hinn
Paul Crouch
Ken Copeland
Kenneth Hagin (threats of death)

is God behind them?


peace,
Simon

Fourth time:

What seems strange is that WoF ministers would threaten and intimidate people with cancer and stuff.


peace,
Simon

Fifth time:

In the case of threats and intimidation by WoF leaders, this again has the power to intimidate.

peace,
Simon

So five times you have stated the same thing, 4 different people have tried to show you that you are not making a truthful statement.

Yet you continue spreading these false statements.

Why is that?

Why can you attribute actions of Leaders of different movements, including Word of Faith to the works of Satan and yet that somehow is not inflammatory?

 

[charityagape]

Nice, but to add some context from my experience only. I cant personally recall any one of those three ever spending any time in any thread cirticizing, judging, and accusing other denominations or ministers of the gospel.

I do personally recall you doing alot of that, in nearly every encounter that I have had with you at least on these forums; that has been my personal experience. Even your avatar is intended as a criticism; you appear to be obsessed.

I think the point being made was not that posting here was a waste of time, obviously none of us think that, or we wouldn't be here. Rather I think the point was that spending inordinate amounts of ones time and energy criticizing, juding and accusing others is a waste of time. And you seem to have a history of that in spades.

Peace...

Exactly!

 

[charityagape]

Accusing an a accuser is not the same as being an accuser.

 

[Simon Peter]

I'm not wasting my time.

Good for you. I think you have the right to choose for yourself what you do with your time.

But so do I, don't I?

You're rather punctilious. No you did not use the word crackpot. And I never said you did. But its not an unreasonable conclusion to draw. In any case their are a dozen or a dozen words you could use to replace this one. Doesn't matter to me. Not a single name you'd use would be pleasant.

Well why don't you use a word that I've actually used?

Seeing as though you think I post far too much about WoF, you must have a lot of posts and "criticism" to choose from.

Or can't you find a word? You'd rather put words in mouth, words that I've never said? Words that you'd like to think I've said, or words you'd like other people to think I've said?


peace,
Simon

 

[charityagape]

Plus. I post more short posts. I don't usually posts five or six paragraphs per post.

 

[Simon Peter]

Accusing an a accuser is not the same as being an accuser.

What about accusing someone who calls down curses, threatens, intimidates? And besides, they were accusing people of criticising their ministry. So then it's OK for me to accuse them by your logic.

Is it OK to accuse an accuser but not a false teacher?

And once you start accusing an accuser, doesn't that make you an accuser? And so then it's OK to accuse you?

It sounds like you want different rules for yourself than for others. I assume you learned that from WoF leadership.

peace,
Simon

 

[TasManOfGod]

I know this -there wont be any loss by the "fire" of the works of WoF leaders through trashing the ministry of other leaders

 

[probinson]

Accusing an a accuser is not the same as being an accuser.

I don't know if I'd agree with that wording, but I wrote 2 very lengthy posts showing the difference between a "Heresy Hunter" and a "Pharisee Hunter" a while back. If you have some time and you're interested, you can read that thread here;

http://www.christianforums.com/t7454787/

 

[Simon Peter]

So five times you have stated the same thing, 4 different people have tried to show you that you are not making a truthful statement.

Yet you continue spreading these false statements.

Why is that?

Why can you attribute actions of Leaders of different movements, including Word of Faith to the works of Satan and yet that somehow is not inflammatory?

And yet you continue to repeat yourself!
Not that I mind, I'm just pointing out that it's a bit odd when you have a problem with repetition.

Is there a rule or a law against repetition that I'm not aware of?
Or are you just trying to intimidate me?



As for your claim that attributing actions of leaders to the works of Satan is inflammatory! (not what I've actually said)

1. I'm in good company, Jesus even said similar about Peter:

23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!
Matthew 16:23a ESV

2. There is no rule that we cannot criticise leaders we disagree with.

3. You repeatedly claim I'm making "false statements", isn't that inflammatory?


When are you guys going to start living by the rules you want everyone else to live by?


peace,
Simon

 

[Yahu]

Someone fire the nursery workers, the children are getting out of hand.

 

[hislegacy]

When you can accurately identify who is and is nor a WoF leader let me know. Until that reality is reached this is a useless venture.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep (Die).
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

This passage seems to contradict WoF doctrine. Having sin in your life while taking communion can lead to weakness, sickness and death. So is this discipline of Yah?

This seems to me to contradict the WoF SoF:

10. We believe that in all things pertaining to life on earth, God is the Author of all that is good; it is only the devil who comes to steal, kill and destroy. God never tempts us, nor uses any element of the curse (Deut. 28) to teach us; He only teaches us by His Holy Spirit revealing to us, the truth of His Holy Word. (John 10:10, James 1:13, Psalm 119:105, John 16:13, Deuteronomy 28)

if you read the entire passage from versws 17-33 you will notice that the issue was not about having sin in your life. the issue was:
1. there were divisions among you - factions - and this made it so that they were not really eating the LORD'S supper. vs 18
2. some went ahead and ate an entire meal and left nothing for the poor to eat. vs 21
3. they were to remember the LORD'S sacrifice. and do this to proclaim HIS death until HE comes vs 24-26
4. paul called this an unworthy eating of the LORD'S supper vs 22, 27-29
5. he said they were not properly discerning the LORD'S body vs 29
6. he told them the way to correct this was to wait for one another vs 33

this reveals that their factions were against each other. wars against each other. and this is called NOT PROPERLY DISCERNING the LORD'S BODY.

anytime so-called believers attack each other they are NOT properly discerning the LORD'S BODY. and there WILL be sickness, weakness, death due to this. because when they eat the LORD'S supper with this wicked attitude against each other they are bringing/eating/drinking judgement upon themselves.

IOW we need to walk in love towards each other, preferring one another, no matter what our different opinions/theologies are. BECAUSE we are all the BODY of CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 11:17-33 New King James Version (NKJV)

Conduct at the Lord’s Supper
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

Institution of the Lord’s Supper
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

here is the link to the original greek for 1Corinthians 11. http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co11.pdf

if you read it carefully you will see that they were making judgements about each other's belonging in the BODY of CHRIST. saying things that caused splits. saying things that made it sound like some belonged to the true BODY of CHRIST. and others didn't really properly belong to the true BODY of CHRIST. saying that some were better than others. excluding some. etc etc etc. this is called schisms in the greek - splits.

the BIBLE talks about us all coming to the unity of the faith. this thread is very good because if we walk in love and pray our way through this we could come to the unity of the faith the LORD wants.

rather than fighting someone you disagree with vs 16 says that we should each do our part so that the BODY of CHRIST can grow in love strength unity.

we do have differing doctrines due to our weak human understanding. but if we ALL get about the FATHER'S business. each one doing his part. everyone loving the other parts of CHRIST'S BODY. we will one day come to the unity of the faith.

but if we keep biting and devouring one another there will be those who are weak and sick and prematurely dying amongst us.

Ephesians 4:1-6 11-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

What is the WoF stand on eternal security verses 'loss of salvation'?

wof had a discussion about that in our forum once. about what we CF wof believed. and what our respected wof teachers believed.

i will try to find that thread.

it was an excellent discussion on osas vs losing your salvation.

we also had a discussion on born again JESUS.

these are 2 topics we are still discussing amongst ourselves. we haven't settled yet.

wof is growing in a lot of things.

we are thankful for what we clearly understand. grace, faith, speaking the WORD, authority, dominion, the blessings of GOD, redeemed from the curse, GOD is ALWAYS good, the devil is always bad, etc.

our sof is the things we have settled but there is still much more to settle as we diligently and deeply study the WORD.

 

[charityagape]

[/color]

Good for you. I think you have the right to choose for yourself what you do with your time.

But so do I, don't I?




Well why don't you use a word that I've actually used?

Seeing as though you think I post far too much about WoF, you must have a lot of posts and "criticism" to choose from.

Or can't you find a word? You'd rather put words in mouth, words that I've never said? Words that you'd like to think I've said, or words you'd like other people to think I've said?


peace,
Simon

Putting words in your mouth...uh okay... I didn't say you used that word. I used that word. It's difficult to have a conversation with you when you want to try and dictate the punctuation, quote format, and words that you find acceptable.

Anyway. This has gotten pointless. You will continue to bad mouth WOF and while it was entertaining for a while to try and show you why you shouldn't go around trashing other people, it isn't any longer. Besides, the people you criticize are highly successful, tremendously blessed, and completely unconcerned with your opinion. It's not like they need defending.

I just hope someday your focus changes. Be blessed.


edit: oh and yes you do have a right to do with your time what you want, but why would you choose something so negative?

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

because each faith camp and each local body has giftings and callings from the LORD, even though we have not all come to the unity of the faith/doctrines YET, we can still ALL do what we do best for / to the GLORY of the LORD for NOW.

baptists can do what baptists do best.

non-denoms can do what they do best.

wof can do what wof do best. etc. etc. etc.


heresy hunters are really like an auto-immune disease (got that from jedi.kep). they attack different parts of the BODY of CHRIST. they try to convince believers that some parts of the BODY are not TRUE parts of the BODY. they really aren't going about the work of the kingdom strengthening the BODY of CHRIST. they are actually ripping it apart.

if we:
1. ALL suspend judgement of others (judge ourselves instead if we are REALLY want to do ANY judging) and

2. ALL got busy building the part of the kingdom of GOD that the HOLY SPIRIT gives us to build (like hezekiah RE-building the jerusalem wall)

3. we would ALL find soooo much GOOD to do that NONE of us would have time to trash another believer or group of believers.

i really believe that unhappy do-nothing believers would get filled with the joy of the LORD if they sought HIM and got busy with the specific work / assignment HE had set up for them. the ones who spend sooo much time trashing others aren't really very productive. they are going to be getting a really skimpy reward in heaven.

i can imagine GOD saying "what did you do with all the time and talents I gave you? what part of MY kingdom / body did you build?"

that's not to say we CAN'T discuss/debate WORD doctrines. that is an excellent way to sharpen one another in the truth of the WORD of GOD. and the closer to truth our doctrines are, the better results we will get in our kindgom building works.

and debating the WORD with someone that greatly differs in doctrine from us can be some of the best learning/growth in truth ever.

 

[Simon Peter]

You will continue to bad mouth WOF and while it was entertaining for a while to try and show you why you shouldn't go around trashing other people, it isn't any longer.

Earlier in the thread you called me a racist for merely fabricating a story where an Italian-American went before a judge. Don't you think that was an accusation? And are not accusations the very thing you are telling others they have no right to do.

You guys will have a lot more credibility when you are more consistent with your beliefs and practices.

Besides, the people you criticize are highly successful, tremendously blessed, and completely unconcerned with your opinion. It's not like they need defending.

This is more like the attitude that WoF claims to believe.

Shame so many leaders set a poor example with their threats and intimidation for those who criticise their ministries. Which makes it seem like they are concerned about peoples opinions.

oh and yes you do have a right to do with your time what you want, but why would you choose something so negative?

I could ask the same of you.

But for me, I'd rather play games on my PC, but someone must speak out against wrongs in this world. Martin Luther 'chose' to speak out against the Catholic priests, and how they ripped off the poor.

To be more candid, I didn't chose this, I just found myself in this situation, and perhaps in a minor way I chose not to pass by on the other side. I don't go looking for these arguments, and I rarely start threads about WoF.

Interestingly, in hindsight, a prophet did me tell me that I would be used to speak out in this way. But my posts would be the same, prophecy or no prophecy.


peace,
Simon

 

[hislegacy]

Shame so many leaders set a poor example with their threats and intimidation for those who criticise their ministries. Which makes it seem like they are concerned about peoples opinions.


peace,
Simon

6 times

do you believe that If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth??