WoF verses Non-WoF

[sk8Joyful]

In Non-WoF you look at a problem as way to expose error in your life,
solve that error so you don't need to speak the blessing,
it comes as a result of getting in right standing with Yah.

True.

Once you deal with the root cause,
then speak with the spiritual authority over those things causing the problems.

What you do then, is EMPOWER in each individual
God's nigh-inexhaustible Healing-mechanisms & resources such that
once empowered your soul+mind+body TEAM can heal... so you can continue...
praising our Creator, Daddy, Savior, Teacher, Best-friend, & Resurrector.

You just said so yourself, I underlined it: Healing the way we were by God created "comes as a result".

As demonstrated in every human God ever created.

The problem is most people have no clue what their ROOT-cause was, is,
nor how to find out, nor what to do about it, once it is known.
So
that leaves them with some minister, clueless as they are. So
that leaves them with "prayer" because they DONT know. That is not Jesus' way...

JESUS says get at the heart of each matter.

WoF followers can speak for blessings they don't qualify for and
bypass the correction of the Father and confuse His chastisement as a Satanic attack.

Sadly true.
and both of their MO's are very convenient.
1.
We'll BLAME that all on the devil, that evil satan.
and
2. God can cast him out.

Convenient, because that way they merely side-step ANY personal responsibility.
It's not their personal doings. No, it was all the devil.

wrong.

WoF as I understand it is to find a promise of Yah and
speak it over your life until you get it.
Or in the case of healing, claiming that healing until you get it.

the devil is only too glad, to intercede and grant temporary health.
so
unless you learn what harmful emotions, or drugs, etc. CAUSED your cancering in the first place, said CAUSE will
go into REmission: iow. evidence in another place in your body, and you get to suffer all over again.

God is Lovingly....Just

 

[TasManOfGod]

IMO, one of the major differences between WoF verses Non-WoF is the sequences of events taught by core doctrines.

WoF as I understand it is to find a promise of Yah and speak it over your life until you get it. Or in the case of healing, claiming that healing until you get it.

In Non-WoF you look at a problem as way to expose error in your life, solve that error so you don't need to speak the blessing, it comes as a result of getting in right standing with Yah. Once you deal with the root cause, then speak with the spiritual authority over those things causing the problems.

WoF followers can speak for blessings they don't qualify for and bypass the correction of the Father and confuse His chastisement as a Satanic attack.

Your error stems from the fact of not understanding the core belief of WoF that we are redeemed from the curse of the Law of sickness sin and death through the shed blood of Jesus (who became a curse for us) to bring us under the law of the the love of God in Christ Jesus. Now even though my Rhema course included teaching on "The Blood of Jesus" that lasted one whole year I am still learning more of what it meant 28 years later. Can you therefore see that what you are saying indeed belongs to many who have not fully understood Calvary and what it means when it comes to battling with sin.
We believe emphatically that Jesus indeed became the second Adam and in so doing enabled us to walk upon this earth in the way of the first. Our job now is not to eat tempting apples and deal with the serpent who wants us to. We also understand 1 John 1:9 as it applies to believers. Do all Woffers live up to the mark -of course not -but I defy anybody to show me better teaching that follows Biblical principles which is more complete than what comes from RBTC.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Your error

stems from the fact of not understanding

the core belief of WoF . Do all Woffers live up to the mark -of course not -but
I defy anybody to show me better teaching that follows Biblical principles
which is more complete, than what comes from RBTC.

You are not interested. As evidenced by your worship of RBTC,
which can't guaranty to heal you of Alzheimer's,
baldness, cancer, diabetes, estrogen-dominance, fibromyalgia, gall-stones, heart disease, insanity,
macular degeneration, MS, osteoporosis, presbycusis, or an ever increasing number of other dys-functional conditions.
why?
Because 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and
will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - does not apply to many of those.

Evidently RBTC is not Christ.

 

[TasManOfGod]

You are not interested. As evidenced by your worship of RBTC,
which can't guaranty to heal you of Alzheimer's,
baldness, cancer, diabetes, estrogen-dominance, fibromyalgia, gall-stones, heart disease, insanity,
macular degeneration, MS, osteoporosis, presbycusis, or an ever increasing number of other dys-functional conditions.
why?
Because 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and
will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - does not apply to many of those.

Evidently RBTC is not Christ.

RTBC would not exist except that God established it -(Read brother Hagins testimony to clarify.) And just to enlightened you Christ took upon Himself all sickness and diseases-He could not have suffered any more to cover anything else.

 

[Yahu]

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

How is it that WoF claims we are redeemed from the need for Yah's chastisement deal with the above passage?

It seems to me that it takes Yah's chastisment for our profit to generate Holiness. Holiness isn't just granted to us because of salvation through faith. It clearly states that He will chastise His sons. Does that mean that WoF followers that refuse the chastisement of Yah are bastards, not sons?

Not getting His chastisement is grievous and the individual won't manifest the 'fruit of righteousness'.

I would hate to think how my sons would turn out if they were never corrected for their error.

 

[Yahu]

Your error stems from the fact of not understanding the core belief of WoF that we are redeemed from the curse of the Law of sickness sin and death through the shed blood of Jesus.

Now that is a core belief that I can't agree with! It may be the root of the problem.

BTW what is RBTC???

 

[TasManOfGod]

BTW what is RBTC???

Rhema Bible Training College
BTW

Your error stems from the fact of not understanding the core belief of WoF that we are redeemed from the curse of the Law of sickness sin and death through the shed blood of Jesus.

Was not the sentece as I wrote it

 

[charityagape]

peace,
Simon

You don't care for baseless political correctness? About the Italian mob thing? Okay, if you want to make simplified, stereotypical statements about groups of people, you can play by those rules. I wouldn't call that political correctness, more common decency. But you know whatever.


Still seems strange that you're concerned WOF ministers are going around striking people with cancer and stuff.

 

[sk8Joyful]

RTBC would not exist except that God established it -(Read brother Hagins testimony to clarify.)
And just to enlightened you
Christ took upon Himself all sickness and diseases
He could not have suffered any more to cover anything else.

Please know I will no longer respond to condescending attitudes,
like be "enlightened" - when already more enlightened as far as what God/Jesus for us did, and continues doing. Thank you!

So since RBTC is supposedly Christ-centered,
explain these facts:
1. E.W. Kenyon, Father of the Word of Faith Movement.
One of the initial teachers of divine healing and it is
(always God's will that His children heal: True)
died in a coma brought on by a malignant tumor. (Copeland teaches
that Kenyon was sitting in a rocking chair, his daughter came into the room and
Kenyon said "there's Jesus, good bye," and went to glory.) That is a lie. He died from disease.

2. Rhema Founder Kenneth E. Hagin Sr. after collapsing at home, died in a "cardiac intensive care unit" where he struggled for life from 9/14 to 9/23/2003.
(in contrast to the old story of Hagin's heart & incurable blood disease being healed, when he was a teen).
and
3. Hagin's sister died from cancer.
Plus Hagin's wife had surgery, even though Jesus "appeared" to Hagin and gave him a special anointing to heal the sick.

Doyle "Buddy" Harrison, Founder of Harrison House Books, son-in-law of Kenneth E. Hagin died Nov. 1998 of cancer.
He was the founder of Faith Christian Fellowship, the WOF denomination.
How could he have died of cancer? He was in the "faith movement" BEFORE Copeland and others...

John Osteen, mega-church pastor in Houston.

Jamie Buckingham, Discipleship Movement & charismatic author, died from cancer and also AFTER chemo-therapy.

John Wimber, Signs & Wonders Movement, author of "Power Healing," died from cancer and also AFTER chemo-therapy.

Chris Wimber, GM of Vineyard Music died Feb 6, 1998 of melanoma cancer.
Mahesh is supposed to have healed people of cancer and AIDS, so where was Chris' healing?

Mack Timberlake, Word of Faith pastor - suffering from throat cancer.

R.W. Schambach, Faith Healer - got a quadruple heart bypass

Dr. Hobart Freeman, Word of Faith teacher & pastor of Faith Assembly - over 90 people died in his church following his teaching and then Hobart died.
If
WOF teachings were true they would have certainly worked for Hobart and the 90+ people who died in "faith believing."
(Hobart is a name NONE of the WOF'ers mention, he was too serious about the teachings).

Frederick K. Price, Word of Faith mega-church pastor in Los Angeles - his wife, Betty got cancer and underwent chemo-therapy, excusing same with
"If you need a crutch upon or something to help you get along,
then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving
to the point that you don’t need a crutch." How Faith Works pp. 92-92
After all the years of sitting under "anointed" faith teaching
by one of the movements leading faith teachers, was not enough for Fred’s wife.

Charles Capps, Word of Faith teacher, teaches power of our words to create reality (VERY True), and his wife got cancer.

On evidence, what wofers preach does not always work.
Why not?
Because being sick is NOT always a matter of "lack of faith".

And God/Jesus Christ will NOT back such doctrine.

The point is this: Unless you know, as God/Jesus also said How to help people heal,
as I have now said a dozen times, often by healing the Root-cause, the person will not heal.

 

[charityagape]

Words have little meaning to some people. Fluid definitions, changing as fits the agenda, are common here.

BTW, it's good to see you again!

You too! I had a rare free afternoon and wondered what was going on over here.

 

[Yahu]

Your error stems from the fact of not understanding the core belief of WoF that we are redeemed from the curse of the Law of sickness sin and death through the shed blood of Jesus (who became a curse for us) to bring us under the law of the the love of God in Christ Jesus.

Ok, there is the entire sentence. I just posted the first part last time. And again, I don't hold to that core WoF belief. That may be the root of the problem with WoF.

What 'law of love'? You are correct that we are under the law of Yah. It is still valid today. The difference between the old covenant and the new is that following the law did not bring salvation but the law defines sin. Sin is the violation of the law, ie instructions of Yah on how to live our life. We are also not under the ORAL law that the Rabbi's added to the law of Yah, ie traditions of man. The law and the consequences for violating that law are still valid in our lives and will bring about consequences for violations of that law in our mortal life. We are still not to covet, or have any other gods before Yah, and honor the Sabbath....

 

[sk8Joyful]

BTW what is RBTC ???

Rhema Bible Training Center

Now considering we know
that
1. First God blessed us with SOUL Choices...
Either we do it His way, as in NEW Testament, iow His GOOD News, and Allow God to save us.
because
(No amount of Positive-thinking, drugs, let alone the anti-Christ, can save one's soul.)

2. Next God blessed us with MIND Choices...
Either we do it His way, as in NEW Testament iow God's GOOD News, like in Phillipeans 4:8 REnewing our mind etc.
or
we suffer the consequences: depression, fear, murder, rage, suicide, blah, hell

3. Then God blessed us with BODY Choices...
Either we do it His way, also in nigh unlimited abundance... as God us created, same as the above two.
or
we find ourselves at the mercy (not) of medical-doctors' "profession"<- believed indoctrinations.

So since God endowed us as LITTLE-children to know these few things,
why Yahu
(other than to make money like medical doctors do),
would someone feel a need to go to yet another religious training center ?? in light of aforementioned evidence.

 

[Yahu]

No.
The beginning of wisdom is that God LOVES..........
God's LOVE is the beginning of wisdom...

That most christians refuse to Allow God's LOVE to operate INside themselves, let alone encourage manifesting in others , is NOT God's problem, but their own.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Pr 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

I was just quoting scripture that is often repeated throughout the Old Testament.

IMO WoF doesn't understand the 'fear of Yah'. They just speak their way out of the consequences so don't develop a respect for the consequences of violating the law of Yah.

 

[Faulty]

since RBTC is supposedly Christ-centered,
explain these facts:
1. E.W. Kenyon, Father of the Word of Faith Movement.
One of the initial teachers of divine healing and it is
(always God's will that His children heal: True)
died in a coma brought on by a malignant tumor. (Copeland teaches
that Kenyon was sitting in a rocking chair, his daughter came into the room and
Kenyon said "there's Jesus, good bye," and went to glory.) That is a lie. He died from disease.

2. Rhema Founder Kenneth E. Hagin Sr. after collapsing at home, died in a "cardiac intensive care unit" where he struggled for life from 9/14 to 9/23/2003.
(in contrast to the old story of Hagin's heart & incurable blood disease being healed, when he was a teen).
and
3. Hagin's sister died from cancer.
Plus Hagin's wife had surgery, even though Jesus "appeared" to Hagin and gave him a special anointing to heal the sick.

Doyle "Buddy" Harrison, Founder of Harrison House Books, son-in-law of Kenneth E. Hagin died Nov. 1998 of cancer.
He was the founder of Faith Christian Fellowship, the WOF denomination.
How could he have died of cancer? He was in the "faith movement" BEFORE Copeland and others...

John Osteen, mega-church pastor in Houston.

Jamie Buckingham, Discipleship Movement & charismatic author, died from cancer and also AFTER chemo-therapy.

John Wimber, Signs & Wonders Movement, author of "Power Healing," died from cancer and also AFTER chemo-therapy.

Chris Wimber, GM of Vineyard Music died Feb 6, 1998 of melanoma cancer.
Mahesh is supposed to have healed people of cancer and AIDS, so where was Chris' healing?

Mack Timberlake, Word of Faith pastor - suffering from throat cancer.

R.W. Schambach, Faith Healer - got a quadruple heart bypass

Dr. Hobart Freeman, Word of Faith teacher & pastor of Faith Assembly - over 90 people died in his church following his teaching and then Hobart died.
If
WOF teachings were true they would have certainly worked for Hobart and the 90+ people who died in "faith believing."
(Hobart is a name NONE of the WOF'ers mention, he was too serious about the teachings).

Frederick K. Price, Word of Faith mega-church pastor in Los Angeles - his wife, Betty got cancer and underwent chemo-therapy, excusing same with
"If you need a crutch upon or something to help you get along,
then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving
to the point that you don’t need a crutch." How Faith Works pp. 92-92
After all the years of sitting under "anointed" faith teaching
by one of the movements leading faith teachers, was not enough for Fred’s wife.

Charles Capps, Word of Faith teacher, teaches power of our words to create reality (VERY True), and his wife got cancer.

I didn't know any of this. Not unexpected though. At the end of the day, regardless of all the posturing, they'll all likely get sick and die just as the rest of us, as expected.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and
the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
I was just quoting scripture that is often repeated throughout the Old Testament.

IMO WoF doesn't understand the 'fear of Yah'. They just speak their way out of the consequences
so don't develop a respect for the consequences of violating the law of Yah.

oh boy
Now you're starting to sound like another when he started posting here #238 in Cindy's thread.
What an utter disaster!! - I tried to straighten him out, but to no avail. He started a bazillion threads ALL about sin, FEAR,
sinning, torment, sinners, stumbling, depression, blah, blah. Finally, he could not post there anymore.
why?
Because the former LAW is for sinners only. - When God/Jesus came and fulfilled the law, and we are saved,
God calls us 'sinners' NO more; but in fact, Jesus now calls us "MY friends": John 15:14+15
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends;
for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you."
and
How did God/Jesus summarize His Laws, His Gospel? - Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus replied: &#8216;Love the Lord your God with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your heart.&#8217;
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: &#8216;Love your neighbor as I have loved you.&#8217;
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.&#8221;


Thus the beginning of wisdom is that God LOVES..........
God's LOVE is the beginning of wisdom...

That most christians refuse to Allow God's LOVE

to operate INside themselves, let alone encourage manifesting in others , is NOT God's problem,
but their own.

 

[andreha]

^^ What the fine lady said. When some people think of the Lord, they see this pic:

And, consequently, don't realise that when they belong to the Lord, they are like the little kitten at the bottom of the picture, and have nothing to fear.

 

[sk8Joyful]

^^ What the fine lady said.

When some people think of the Lord, they see this pic:

And, consequently, don't realize that
when they belong to the Lord, they are like the little kitten at the bottom of the picture, and have nothing to fear.

oh Andre ~ this is just prizeless

Yeah verily, We ain't sinners. We're the Lord's LITTLE ones.

It's sad how many parents, doctors, preachers, ministers, teachers, and
others one encounters, all without a concept of GOD's LOVE.

Andre, you too are God's friend, and I am soo thankful we too are friends

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

When some people think of the Lord, the see this pic:

And, consequently, don't realise that when they belong to the Lord, they are like the little kitten at the bottom of the picture, and have nothing to fear.

amen.... sooo true....

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Pr 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

I was just quoting scripture that is often repeated throughout the Old Testament.

IMO WoF doesn't understand the 'fear of Yah'. They just speak their way out of the consequences so don't develop a respect for the consequences of violating the law of Yah.

the consequences/curses of violating the law were taken care of by the blood of JESUS. JESUS became a curse for us. HE redeemded us from the curse of the law.

Galatians 3:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Yet the law is not of faith, but &#8220;the man who does them shall live by them.&#8221;
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, &#8220;Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree&#8221;, 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


wof obey the instructions of the LORD out of love. not to earn blessings. not to avoid curses. we know the grace of GOD and are grateful for all that HE has done for us. we love HIM because HE first loved us. we also love HIS WORD. HIS WORD is spirit and it is life. PRAISE GOD.


John 14:15 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 &#8220;If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

 

[sk8Joyful]

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