With What Body

[n2thelight]

This is some what just for my curiosity,but would like to discuss it as well......

Ive been accused of not being a christian because I don't feel scripture teaches a physical resurrection of the body...So my question is,how many feel that the body will be?

 

[ryangrom]

Being accused of not being a Christian because you don't believe someones certain end times doctrine is ridiculous. I think they are talking about the "dead in christ will rise verse". I don't believe it is talking about physical bodies either. That would be rather morbid if you ask me, haha. It paints the picture of rotting bodies flying through the air to meet Jesus in the air dropping hunks of rotting flesh on the ground along the way. I believe its referring to spiritual bodies.

 

[daq]

The following passage is clear enough for me:

1 Corinthians 15:33-44 KJV
33. Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

What a man sows he reaps. Therefore sow toward the spiritual body right now while you remain in your natural body or else what will you do when your natural body is buried with you in it?

 

[parousia70]

The Conundrum of Organ transplants - Who's Resurrected body gets the liver that was transplanted? The Donor or Donee? - The conundrum of death wounds - Will the tortured murder victim's resurrected body retain the wounds of her death? Jesus retained His wounds after all... will all these "Glorified" physical bodies retain the wounds "like Jesus"?
And what of folks born without limbs? Will they get limbs in their glorified resurrected bodies or will they be The same body that died, only now it's immortal?.... and don't get me started on cremation......

 

[Ronald]

Ive been accused of not being a christian because I don't feel scripture teaches a physical resurrection of the body...So my question is, how many feel that the body will be?

The question is: Do you believe Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures? Because according to the scriptures, His physical body was raised and the tomb was empty. So the dead shall be raised first and those who are alive will be raised into a spiritual body that will function in a multi-dimensional realm. Mortality will put on immortality.
Jesus appeared and disappeared for forty days. They touched Him ... He ate with them and then they watched Him ascend. We will have a body just like His. The bible claims this, so you need to receive it.

 

[parousia70]

We will have a body just like His. The bible claims this, so you need to receive it.

So our resurrected bodies will retain any wounds we might receive in death "Just like His"?

Bullet holes? Slit throats? Crushed rib cages? Smashed in Skulls?

 

[pgp_protector]

Most (not all) of your body is constantly replacing itself over time
http://askanaturalist.com/do-we-replace-our-cells-every-7-or-10-years/

Example about every 10 years ALL your fat cells would of replaced themselves, so any part of you that's a fat cell wouldn't be around with you in 10 years.

The Water in your body (50% to 65%) would recycle even faster, and after you die, would quickly renter the environment to be used in other stuff (including other bodies)

so whatever body you resurrect with it won't be the current body you're using, you won't even have a lot of that body in a few years.

 

[n2thelight]

The question is: Do you believe Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures? Because according to the scriptures, His physical body was raised and the tomb was empty. So the dead shall be raised first and those who are alive will be raised into a spiritual body that will function in a multi-dimensional realm. Mortality will put on immortality.
Jesus appeared and disappeared for forty days. They touched Him ... He ate with them and then they watched Him ascend. We will have a body just like His. The bible claims this, so you need to receive it.

The dead have already risen,and are in Heaven the instant they died.....That's why the living can't precede them......

 

[Old Timer]

I've been trained to ask 'why' for longer than I care to remember..

So that's the question I ask..

Why?

Why would a professing Christian consitently deny the bodily resurrection of the dead when every example in scripture is exactly that?

I could understand a position of not being sure and just leaving it at that, although that is not what this poster does.. in fact, just about every post I read is a consistent denial of the bodily resurrection..

Why?

Why would any professing Christian do that instead of simply stating that they're unsure, or something like that.

Instead it is a consistent denail of any bodily resurrection.

That in my mind speaks volumes, because who would want to deny the bodily resurrection of the dead?

Any guesses?

 

[n2thelight]

I've been trained to ask 'why' for longer than I care to remember..

So that's the question I ask..

Why?

Why would a professing Christian consitently deny the bodily resurrection of the dead when every example in scripture is exactly that?

I could understand a position of not being sure and just leaving it at that, although that is not what this poster does.. in fact, just about every post I read is a consistent denial of the bodily resurrection..

Why?

Why would any professing Christian do that instead of simply stating that they're unsure, or something like that.

Instead it is a consistent denail of any bodily resurrection.

That in my mind speaks volumes, because who would want to deny the bodily resurrection of the dead?

Any guesses?

Why?Simple,because scripture dosn't teach such.......

 

[Old Timer]

Why?Simple,because scripture dosn't teach such.......

Now you're simply being flat out ridiculous because every example in scripture is a bodily resurrection.

Not only that, prophetically there is no question about it..

The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, and caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: and I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

As mentioned, you'd have to flat out deny the living and powerful word of God to consistently insist that there is not a bodily resurrection..'

Flesh and bone... notice there's no blood mentioned.

 

[Old Timer]

To doubt it is one thing, as Thomas did... although to consistently deny the bodily resurrection is an entirely different matter.

That's where one must really consider WHY a person is doing this.

 

[n2thelight]

Originally Posted by n2thelight

Why?Simple,because scripture dosn't teach such.......
​

Now you're simply being flat out ridiculous because every example in scripture is a bodily resurrection.

Not only that, prophetically there is no question about it..

The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, and caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: and I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
​

As mentioned, you'd have to flat out deny the living and powerful word of God to consistently insist that there is not a bodily resurrection..'

Flesh and bone... notice there's no blood mentioned.

Scripture tells me that the flesh returns to dust,as for the verses from Ezekiel,that's not what the scripture is talking about...........

 

[Old Timer]

Scripture tells me that the flesh returns to dust,as for the verses from Ezekiel,that's not what the scripture is talking about...........

Well then by all means please tell us what Ezekiel is talking about.

 

[Old Timer]

Another serious flaw in this poster's beliefs is that he says that the resurrection is past already, because he believes that those who have died have already been raised?

This is certainly refutable from scripture.

David's body was in the tomb at Pentecost according to Peter.. it wasn't raised.

In Thess 4 Paul speaks of the dead in Christ rising first, and then we which are alive and who remain shall be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

Now why would the dead in Christ need to be raised first if they're already raised according to this poster?

Paul tells us that those who say that the resurrection is past err.. and that their words eat like a cancer and that they overthrow the faith of some.

Is that the intent here?

IOW, how in the world does this glorify the Lord Jesus Christ? How does denying a bodily resurrection of the dead which is perfectly clear according to the scriptures, glorify Him?

Wouldn't it be better to simply say that I don't know?

 

[n2thelight]

Well then by all means please tell us what Ezekiel is talking about.

At work at the moment,so I will just give you the short answer...

The verses speak of the joining of the two sticks coming back together...

 

[Old Timer]

At work at the moment,so I will just give you the short answer...

The verses speak of the joining of the two sticks coming back together...

Oh, then I guess that settles it.

 

[n2thelight]

Oh, then I guess that settles it.

God uses symbols in Ezekiel 37, to show us how the restoration of the two Houses will be joined together. These two Houses today are; the House of Israel [the Christian nations], and the House of Judah [the true Jew]. God took Ezekiel to a valley, and sat him right in the middle of it. As Ezekiel looked around, all he could see were bones everywhere. It was just full of stacks of dead dry bones. These bones were scattered and all disassembled.


Ezekiel 37:4 "Again he said unto me, "Prophecy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord."

To prophecy means to teach. Ezekiel is going to teach those massive deposits of dead dry bones, that are spread out all over this valley. This sounds sort of like a bad dream, However, it is not. It is the Almighty God giving you and I living today, a lesson, or warning as to what is about to happen in our times, and following His return.

Another serious flaw in this poster's beliefs is that he says that the resurrection is past already, because he believes that those who have died have already been raised?

Was Christ resurrected?We all know He was,now here's my point

I Corinthians 15:12 "Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?"

Remember that there were some Jews scattered amongst the Corinthians, and these Jews called the Sadducees taught that there was no life after death. You live this one time and that is it. Paul is now saying that if you claim to be Christians and you say there is no resurrection than you are deceiving yourself.

Corinthians 15:13 "But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:"

In other words, you are saying; "if all of the dead are not risen, then Christ must not be risen also." This is the exact subject that Paul was addressing in I Thessalonians 4 where Paul is addressing the question, "Where are the dead?" The Thessalonian Christians were starting to lose their faith over the belief that when they died, their souls would remain in the ground. and Paul was saying that this line of thinking was as the heathen thought.

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul give this information for one reason, so that we not be ignorant as the heathen are, concerning our soul after this flesh body is dead. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.

The concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them and their bodies have been placed in a hole in the ground. The heathen fears come from the fact that they do not know what happen to the soul after death, for they have no hope after death. Those that sleep [are dead physically] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. All the dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the [flesh] body is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The subject again is "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are". If you are a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb alive. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believers]. When Christ ascended back to the Father on the fortieth day after His resurrection, all the souls went with him into heaven that had passed on. Some of those souls went to wait for that time of judgment, while others went to the glory of God. However there are no souls that remain with their decaying flesh body in the ground, none.

This is certainly refutable from scripture.

David's body was in the tomb at Pentecost according to Peter.. it wasn't raised.

In Thess 4 Paul speaks of the dead in Christ rising first, and then we which are alive and who remain shall be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

Now why would the dead in Christ need to be raised first if they're already raised according to this poster?

Again,they have already risen,if not please tell me how they return with Christ......

Paul tells us that those who say that the resurrection is past err.. and that their words eat like a cancer and that they overthrow the faith of some.

Is that the intent here?

Where is the verse for that statement(resurrection has past)?

Now let's see what actually happens to this flesh body

Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body. We can call it the process of thought, which is the intellect of the mind, or soul.

When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs from this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

Then when? After the silver cord breaks, the mind is brain dead, and the body loses its life. Then shall the body "dust" return to the earth as it was, before it was formed into food, and entered your mouth as food to make your flesh body healthy.

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

Now let's do some examples of where are the dead.....To believe one dosn't return to the Father at death,is to believe in soul sleep,which is unscriptual....

Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him."

So will Moses and Elijah get their flesh body back?I don't think so,as they are now,along with everyone else who dies are in the 2nd of two bodies that we all have

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Are these people in a grave somewhere?Not!!!

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Are they waiting to come back and get their flesh bodies?I don't think so....

Now you say Christ was raised in His flesh body,yes He was,but it was a reason for it

Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light."

Jesus Christ's transfiguration let these three disciples know that through the resurrection the flesh body will be transfigured, rather then left. These three have witnessed before the fact that Christ's body will be transfigured. Meaning that the flesh shall not be left behind, whereby the unbelievers could say, He didn't go anywhere. There is the flesh.

There had to be a transfiguration to stop the talk, and have witnesses to the fact, so no one could deny that He arose.


Now my question to you and anyone else is,what kind of body did Christ have,before He was born of woman?

 

[Old Timer]

Well I guess when the scriptures say one thing they actually mean something else. You learn something new everyday.

Now I can also deny the bodily resurrection of the dead..

Thanks for your help n2thelight.. I would have never seen what you're saying.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Well I guess when the scriptures say one thing they actually mean something else. You learn something new everyday.

Now I can also deny the bodily resurrection of the dead..

Thanks for your help n2thelight.. I would have never seen what you're saying.

You do what you accuse another of.

The most detailed description in scripture of the resurrection clearly states the dead will be raised to spiritual bodies and the living will be transformed.

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

You ignore this clear passage and present a vision of Ezekiel about the greater church to support your case.