Will Jesus find Faith when he returns?

[Stephen Kendall]

I came here to start this thread in search of an inspiring concept that I never even knew before or that it had been accepted, fully researched, academically examined and even theologically recognized in groups within Christendom's bodies of believers. Christian universal reconciliation or eventual reconciliation of all through God's ultimate sacrificial Lamb, His Son, Jesus the Christ, is the most dynamic and answer-all concept within Christendom, and of course it is rejected! Jesus, his Word, his disciples, his true followers and the list goes on were all rejected. Rejection only matters if it is from our Father, that is for rejecting His Will. So, we follow Jesus alone and obey him. We can research here and find more about the wondrous idea of God's Will to be carried out through His Lamb (Jesus) for all.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

There is a wonderful blessing in starting and maintaining this thread. Besides exploring our faith and understanding it better, I have been working at my writing skills to be two things since retiring from farming and (it seems) construction work. These are both dear to my heart: 1) is to be my two young son's home school teacher and 2) is for me to become a proficient writer for the rest of my life. I want to retain my faith within my writings and it would nice to do some mission work for God. He sure used myself and our small mission groups in Mexico years ago. I didn't know that God would move us all in such a dynamic loving way. Praise Him!

 

[he-man]

I am sure that he-man will make his daily posts as well. All are invited to do so. Read what you wish of these postings. We should be preaching the "Good News", not "Ugly News" about the failure in saving souls and the resulting harsh eternal treatment by our Father. Annihilation is merciful, but it concludes as a failure to save all mankind and not succeed in the will of God that all would be saved by his son Jesus.

That is where you miss the boat! Annihilation is merciful and the idea that you will be burned in a torture of fire is NOT taught in the Bible.
Annihilation simply means you cease to exist and will no longer be given a chance to see the FACE of God.
So let us read what it says about warnings from God:
from: Bible Threatenings Explained

"If the decision be made to turn solely on the literal meaning of the scriptures, I have no hesitation whatever in declaring my strong conviction that the Universal Salvation and annihilation theories have far more evidence for them than the standard theology of eternal burnings. It seems to me that if many passages of Scripture be taken quite literally universal restoration is unequivocally taught and endless torments are nowhere clearly taught. The passages which appear to teach that doctrine being either obviously figurative or historically misunderstood."

and annihilation theories have far more evidence for them than the standard theology of eternal burnings

When considering the threats of the Bible, remember that they should always be interpreted and understood as being in harmony with all the great principles in Scripture, with the revealed character of God and with his promises to man. They must be so explained as to harmonize with the whole that contains them. For example, we read that "God is Love" and that he is a "Father." At the same time we are told that he will cast the wicked into everlasting fire and punish them throughout all eternity.

That is completely false!
There is no Fire that tortures you for an eternity, that would contradict the idea of immortality and God does not torture people!. Paul tells you who will inflict punishments "lest He that destroyed the firstborn should touch them"Heb 11:28 Through faith he [Moses] kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest He that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Exo 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt

On principle we must not (1) deny that God is Love and a merciful Father, nor (2) believe that the Bible contradicts itself The threats must harmonize with the promises. There can be no contradiction. No penalty in the Bible would prove God not a father or destitute of love towards each and all of his children.
Our word 'forever' today is not the same as the Bible words 'for' and 'ever' - which in the Bible means literally 'for an age' - a period of time whose length is determined by the subject.

Someone does not know Koine Greek αιωνιος αιωνιου sempiternal, having beginning, but no end, age long, forever

Mat 8:12 - "but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Outer darkness= σκότος External Obscurity

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness [σκότος External Obscurity]; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Again, the author of the article was destitute of knowledge or education in Koine Greek and did not read the GREEK manuscript which says αιωνιος and the angels do not come forth until the completion of this age.

READ and see we are speaking of the KINGDOM of Heaven as being like a NET.Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the rotten away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world [αιωνιος]: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Again, the author of the article was ignorant in Koine Greek and did not read the GREEK manuscript which says απολλυμι demolished; spoken of eternal death
"I tell you this - except you repent you shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3, 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish Comp. Ecclus. x. 3. xx. 22. to perish eternally.

απολλυμι exclusion from the Messiah's kingdom, etc. Mt. 10:28;
Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34, 9:56; Ro. 14:15; Luke 9:25; subject himself
to eternal death. Comp. Ecclus. x. 3. xx. 22. to perish eternally, i. e.
to be deprived of eternal life, etc. So “αι απολλυμενοι”, those who
perish, who are exposed to eternal death, 2 Thess. 1:9, 2:10; the
"perfective" force of the verb, wh. "implies the completion of the
process of destruction," is illustrated (v. M, Pr., 114 f.; M, 2Th.
2:10);

Mat 13:30 suffer both to grow together till the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles, to burn them up, and the wheat gather up into my repository.'

Not to torture but to burn them up! Isa 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in His hand, and He will throughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the repository; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

he-man,



I had a question come up in my heart and mind concerning you and others in your positions of your beliefs. I was going to ask a question about the position that each person takes with God's judgment or a soul's final outcome beliefs. If annihilation is true and those believing in eternal torture are then annihilated for not believing correctly then too bad. If eternal torture is true and those believing in annihilation are then eternally tortured then too bad again. Of course, those believing in universal salvation are also either annihilated or eternally tortured for believing in the wrong thing. If universal salvation is true then those believing in annihilation or eternal torture are saved anyway then ok. My point is on the stand point of choosing your belief is haphazard, for though you firmly believe in something fully supported by your faith system, other faith systems have failed and are thus punished even though they too are fully convinced. Annihilation appears to be just like eternal torture, because you have a God who can not accomplish what it is that he Wills, even his son's horrific sacrifice can not help accomplish his Father's Will. So, these two faith systems appear to not be representing the Almighty and loving Father at peace who's Will can not be overcome.

Do see any problem here? As long as your faith system is the correct one, you are fine, but what about the God of your faith, is he fine?

I chose Jesus, because I loved him and really believed in him. I never accepted the theologian's conscripts taking Jesus out of the place of where I accepted him and believed in him; for believing in him, I believed in his teachings with his pure heart and convictions, I saw the Light of God; nobody is capable of darkening this light. Eventual reconciliation or Christian universal reconciliation only allowed this light to reveal itself standing equally, if not better than, other concepts of a soul's judgmental & resulting end beliefs.

Another problem with annihilation is the terror that messes with peace and security for all saved souls with this tyranny of God's.

I was willing to take a big step of faith, when I first met Jesus, around 18 years old, reading the Bible. I met someone through the pages of the New Testament and recognized that I agreed with him, not in his enormous power, but in his humility and love. I was impressed. I fell in love with this man, human man amongst other humans who loved so deeply his Dad and fellowman. I fell in love with the love that he showed. It is hard to follow anything else in the universe. My recent discovery of eventual reconciliation through the blood of God's Lamb, Jesus, his son, for all creation is like a dream come true. I never accepted or could the theological basis of man's intellect scouring over eons of scriptures to know it all. They never seem to have believed as I have, we believe differently.

I know that you have no tolerance for outside beliefs, but at least you know now why we can't meet, you know more about my heart. I wasn't going to discuss these things with you, but you appear so sincere and are rather creative and thoughtful in your responses. Have a good day in the Lord.

 

[he-man]

he-man, I had a question come up in my heart and mind concerning you and others in your positions of your beliefs. My point is on the stand point of choosing your belief is haphazard, for though you firmly believe in something fully supported by your faith system, other faith systems have failed and are thus punished even though they too are fully convinced.

Is that a question or an answer? I am in a quandary because you have not addressed what scripture I have posted, why do you evade the scriptures and only give your personal views? 2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

Annihilation appears to be just like eternal torture, because you have a God who can not accomplish what it is that he Wills, even his son's horrific sacrifice can not help accomplish his Father's Will. So, these two faith systems appear to not be representing the Almighty and loving Father at peace who's Will can not be overcome.

But I thought you quoted your friend as saying: "and annihilation theories have far more evidence for them than the standard theology of eternal burnings"

Just who do you think you are to question the motives of the will of God? Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much patience the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

Do see any problem here? As long as your faith system is the correct one, you are fine, but what about the God of your faith, is he fine?

Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Pr 16:2 All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord.

I chose Jesus, because I loved him and really believed in him. Eventual reconciliation or Christian universal reconciliation only allowed this light to reveal itself standing equally, if not better than, other concepts of a soul's judgmental & resulting end beliefs. I know that you have no tolerance for outside beliefs, but at least you know now why we can't meet, you know more about my heart

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Another problem with annihilation is the terror that messes with peace and security for all saved souls with this tyranny of God's.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. ("led," not dragged, forced)

A teacher cannot impose knowledge, understanding, and wisdom upon a student. The student must cooperate in the process. Without this, little or no fruit is produced. The Bible shows the Spirit of God as influencing, suggesting, and, if we choose to permit it, dominating—perhaps even controlling—our lives. This is good because God is good, and if we will yield, the fruit of His Spirit will be produced in our lives.

God will not lead us astray. Our real love, joy, and peace consist only in yielding ourselves entirely to Him and being willing to be guided and influenced by His unseen hand. To be led by the Spirit is to choose voluntarily and consciously to submit to the Word of God. — John W. Ritenbaugh

The choice is yours, do you choose to believe in LIFE by the narrow gate or Destruction where countless many choose to go?

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

he-man,



I had a question come up in my heart and mind concerning you and others in your positions of your beliefs. I was going to ask a question about the position that each person takes with God's judgment or a soul's final outcome beliefs. If annihilation is true and those believing in eternal torture are then annihilated for not believing correctly then too bad. If eternal torture is true and those believing in annihilation are then eternally tortured then too bad again. Of course, those believing in universal salvation are also either annihilated or eternally tortured for believing in the wrong thing. If universal salvation is true then those believing in annihilation or eternal torture are saved anyway then ok. My point is on the stand point of choosing your belief is haphazard, for though you firmly believe in something fully supported by your faith system, other faith systems have failed and are thus punished even though they too are fully convinced. Annihilation appears to be just like eternal torture, because you have a God who can not accomplish what it is that he Wills, even his son's horrific sacrifice can not help accomplish his Father's Will. So, these two faith systems appear to not be representing the Almighty and loving Father at peace who's Will can not be overcome.

Is that a question or an answer? I am in a quandary because you have not addressed what scripture I have posted, why do you evade the scriptures and only give your personal views? 2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

Take your pick, I am supposing that you believe in annihilation from what you have said.

The idea of my writing & thoughts to you was for you to use your brain and think about what I said. I must be wasting my time speaking to one who only wants to hear me quote the Bible, not using my own words or thoughts as another Christian brother would speak. I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian, since I don't quote enough bible verses as my words to you or accepting scripture quotes as your words to me.

The Bible is like the Holy Spirit and is our helper. Our God and Lord Jesus are in Heaven, but the other helper (our Bible) can help us a great deal, even being just paper and ink with the Words of God within.

Hey, we are just wasting our time conversing here. You can not even understand my simple words and thoughts to you, for you seem to have erected a barrier towards them. I am finding it very hard to listen to you as well. Plain talk is critical for people to have mutual understanding. From your scripture talk, you don't want to listen to me, for your aim is to warn me, attack me, abase me and many times just paint over me. When are you going to just listen and talk sir? You have actually said a few things here, but you rant on and still don't listen to my sentences. Maybe, I am a bit complicated or too hard to understand. I had a time with Apostle Paul's writings when I first read them, but now they are mostly well understood, and I really appreciate him.

A teacher cannot impose knowledge, understanding, and wisdom upon a student. The student must cooperate in the process. Without this, little or no fruit is produced. The Bible shows the Spirit of God as influencing, suggesting, and, if we choose to permit it, dominating—perhaps even controlling—our lives. This is good because God is good, and if we will yield, the fruit of His Spirit will be produced in our lives.

God will not lead us astray. Our real love, joy, and peace consist only in yielding ourselves entirely to Him and being willing to be guided and influenced by His unseen hand. To be led by the Spirit is to choose voluntarily and consciously to submit to the Word of God. — John W. Ritenbaugh

I never fell in love with the Bible, but did with Jesus within it, and then, understanding God through Christ, I love our Father. The Bible, being paper and ink, and as the Holy Spirit, it is our helper as well, we can benefit from it, but never worship it, for our God is our Father which is in Heaven with his son, our Lord Jesus the Christ. Fruit comes by obeying Jesus and thus bearing the fruit of his words living within us, the Will of God. You do seem to understand God's Will, but not really trusting him, since you can't even have enough confidence to speak your own words and converse with another person in such a way.

The choice is yours, do you choose to believe in LIFE by the narrow gate or Destruction where countless many choose to go?

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut..

Do you know what these things really mean? Strive to obey the very simple yet complete words of Jesus, the Will of God. Very few are they who do. Many are they who go left and right of obeying Jesus' Gospel, his commands and teachings for us, for they follow many other things, neglecting Jesus, the narrow and strait. It should never be that way. Do you want me to help you to understand what it is that you are quoting sir? I can and will. It will be difficult for me to, for I will appear to you as intimidating from such a common background (farming and construction), but if it would make you feel better, I loved Physics and higher mathematics, as well as electrical engineering (though without degrees or continued pursuits). My thoughts can become quite complicated, because of the hidden scientist and philosopher within me. I did have some gold tassels, but only for a lower associate degree in engineering. I did win a coveted ISA contest with 400 other contestants from 200 much better colleges & universities. Yep, it was head and shoulders above the others, some were way over me in years, degrees, etc. (the quote from the ISA representative who announce that I won). So, I might not be too intimidating after all, for I have a couple of brain cells to use, even here. I do believe that I understand God and Christ, yet I must reserve that I don't know it all, but can help. Your quotes seem to be out of place when you use them to establish your faith belief system. Your education is far more advanced than mine, much like the contestants of the ISA contest that I participated in, but you don't realize that I know a good deal and also may know what I am talking about. I angered my college teachers a lot when I corrected them and their text books (I seemed always correct, at least 99% of the time, I was right). One time, a publisher had to send down a representative from their company to my lowly community college to address all the errors that I found in one of their latest works. I don't have a perfect teacher on earth, but I do have a helper, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, as my Lord and the only true perfect teacher, whom is in Heaven and also within me. I am not that smart, but I have a very stubborn nature about me to check everything out, except what I have always known to be true, God and His Son Jesus. And you want to be my teacher? No, I make a terrible student, for I would find your errors, other's also and worst still even man's canonized Bible's, yet never God's or Jesus' (why would I ?). The safest place for truth is out of the reach of man, so it is safe in Heaven, yet we can find God & Christ within the Bible, being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves, Jesus and the Holy Spirit within us. We just need to understand God & Christ first, not error laden text books, instructors, history or the other things of man. The truth that stands alone can be found.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I hate to do this, especially wanting to help he-man and others here, but my wife is right. I need to catch up with my other obligations and since I am such an absorbed person in extremely serious deep thoughts of whatever I pursue, I need to back away from my posting here for awhile.

You may accuse me of being afraid of others superior than I, but don't make me laugh! I put way too much of my heart into whatever I do. I tried once to build what was a computer in my mind as a young boy, but didn't understand digital electronic circuits or how a computer worked. I was going to do it by straight analog types of devices, which was nonsense. After realizing a constantly changing task, needless to say complicated and confusing, I realized that it wasn't practical, efficient or reasonable. It was beyond me. I could have pursued the discipline later than in my then 1970 high school Physics class and accomplish this task and probably done quite well! Nope, farming and construction work was for me, even after another few years now and then of more college degree pursuits. I could hang with the best of them, but was drawn away from the academic crowds. I respected truth, but not the pride, arrogance and stupidity that usually follows such crowds.

I want to come back here, perhaps in a week or two and catch up, and continue to explore eventual reconciliation. Thank you everyone for listening, especially any opposing ones, who keep me on my toes some. Love you all in our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. I look forward to day that I return! Must check out for now, sorry that I won't post or visit for perhaps several weeks catching up on a lot of important matters. There is so much to discuss here. This thread is very dear to me. It like my ministry from God. Praise God always, please listen to the truth (our Lord Jesus) and follow him alone! You will always have excellent knowledge doing so, and salvation for sure, despite the claims of otherwise. Follow Jesus and have great confidence in God. It is better to have mostly a guard attitude towards man's so called knowledge. I know that sooner or later this thread will end and my small ministry here, but I won't worry of that, for God has much for us to do. I know that many deeply love God in their own faith systems and I really do respect each of you, though my I fail in being a part of your beliefs, entirely, but if we obey Jesus alone, at least above all things, then for sure we are brethren anyway.

I believe that ignorance is acceptable to God, but not disobedience to his son, Jesus Christ. Jesus commanded us and still does, simply and plainly in full understanding, with the fully sufficiency of his Spirit within us, the Holy Spirit. We have no excuse, so let us obey Jesus alone! Does anyone dare to understand? I won't be around for awhile, so I will try to answer questions, thoughts and even angry responses when I come back. It is odd that my ministry here is now my temptation. My love to you all, and always. Goodbye!

 

[katerinah1947]

I hate to do this, especially wanting to help he-man and others here, but my wife is right. I need to catch up with my other obligations and since I am such an absorbed person in extremely serious deep thoughts of whatever I pursue, I need to back away from my posting here for awhile.

You may accuse me of being afraid of others superior than I, but don't make me laugh! I put way too much of my heart into whatever I do. I tried once to build what was a computer in my mind as a young boy, but didn't understand digital electronic circuits or how a computer worked. I was going to do it by straight analog types of devices, which was nonsense. After realizing a constantly changing task, needless to say complicated and confusing, I realized that it wasn't practical, efficient or reasonable. It was beyond me. I could have pursued the discipline later than in my then 1970 high school Physics class and accomplish this task and probably done quite well! Nope, farming and construction work was for me, even after another few years now and then of more college degree pursuits. I could hang with the best of them, but was drawn away from the academic crowds. I respected truth, but not the pride, arrogance and stupidity that usually follows such crowds.

I want to come back here, perhaps in a week or two and catch up, and continue to explore eventual reconciliation. Thank you everyone for listening, especially any opposing ones, who keep me on my toes some. Love you all in our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. I look forward to day that I return! Must check out for now, sorry that I won't post or visit for perhaps several weeks catching up on a lot of important matters. There is so much to discuss here. This thread is very dear to me. It like my ministry from God. Praise God always, please listen to the truth (our Lord Jesus) and follow him alone! You will always have excellent knowledge doing so, and salvation for sure, despite the claims of otherwise. Follow Jesus and have great confidence in God. It is better to have mostly a guard attitude towards man's so called knowledge. I know that sooner or later this thread will end and my small ministry here, but I won't worry of that, for God has much for us to do. I know that many deeply love God in their own faith systems and I really do respect each of you, though my I fail in being a part of your beliefs, entirely, but if we obey Jesus alone, at least above all things, then for sure we are brethren anyway.

I believe that ignorance is acceptable to God, but not disobedience to his son, Jesus Christ. Jesus commanded us and still does, simply and plainly in full understanding, with the fully sufficiency of his Spirit within us, the Holy Spirit. We have no excuse, so let us obey Jesus alone! Does anyone dare to understand? I won't be around for awhile, so I will try to answer questions, thoughts and even angry responses when I come back. It is odd that my ministry here is now my temptation. My love to you all, and always. Goodbye!

Dearest Stephen,
I am impressed by your rather John of The Bible ways and heart. He talked much about love.
One day, someone I know, said she was contacted by God. She saw Him. As impossible as that sounds, she was changed mightily. She loves now beyond normal human imaginations. She even talks of loving the way God loves, as she was given that as a gift once.
Your universal salvation ideas spring out of heart, not laws, nor rules it seems, nor what was called the law.
Now she is the only girl I know of who wants God to get back Lucifer, as he once was. She has always wanted this for God. She told me once, that she had a conversation with God, on that subject. Biblically in Revelations it says The Devil will be thrown in the Lake of Sulpher and will be tortured forever. She however says, she had that conversation recently and although in faith alone, she says God The Father granted her request, and for the most amazing of reasons. He loves her. Something to think on, for you with a heart that seems large.
She did say more. You would like that also.
...Katerina.

 

[Norah63]

Have not read here for a while. See the two sides of this as one wants everyone fixed, sooner or later.
The other wants to do away with the wrong by flash-fire, get that done quick.
For sure everyone has lots of bible to back their cause. Even if it takes private interpretation.
Bringing the body of Christ together in love is a valiant thing, we all pull for that I hope.
How it is to be, may not fully be understood by any of us. Yet we carry on, in love as the thread question asks
Thanks for adding another thought Katerinah, it was interesting to hear about your friend.

 

[he-man]

Take your pick, I am supposing that you believe in annihilation from what you have said.

IN MY OWN WORDS I believe that is exactly what the Bible teaches.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

The idea of my writing & thoughts to you was for you to use your brain and think about what I said. I must be wasting my time speaking to one who only wants to hear me quote the Bible, not using my own words or thoughts as another Christian brother would speak. I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian, since I don't quote enough bible verses as my words to you or accepting scripture quotes as your words to me.

FROM Your own words: " I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian", The Bible refutes your statement: Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

So what is your answer? How do you forget to reply to each exact scripture, ONE by ONE?
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Bible is like the Holy Spirit and is our helper. Our God and Lord Jesus are in Heaven, but the other helper (our Bible) can help us a great deal, even being just paper and ink with the Words of God within.

"just paper and ink with the Words of God within?" Oh, I see, so you just dismiss it as junk that has been contaminated by man? Don't you have a Lexicon, perhaps a lesson in Koine Greek would over simplify your understanding of what these things really mean? Don't you think God can overpower man enough to keep the basic teachings of the Bible intact if you are willing to SEEK it?

Plain talk is critical for people to have mutual understanding. From your scripture talk, you don't want to listen to me, for your aim is to warn me, attack me, abase me and many times just paint over me. When are you going to just listen and talk sir? You have actually said a few things here, but you rant on and still don't listen to my sentences.

Quoting the scripture is certainly not RANTING, sir. We are commanded to do that DAILY. Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Without the Spirit of Christ and the messages in the Bible, How else can you know the truth and remember it?
2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

I never fell in love with the Bible, but did with Jesus within it, and then, understanding God through Christ, I love our Father. The Bible, being paper and ink, and as the Holy Spirit, it is our helper as well, we can benefit from it, but never worship it, for our God is our Father which is in Heaven with his son, our Lord Jesus the Christ. Fruit comes by obeying Jesus and thus bearing the fruit of his words living within us, the Will of God. You do seem to understand God's Will, but not really trusting him, since you can't even have enough confidence to speak your own words and converse with another person in such a way.

I speak my words with the Word of God, so as not to add something like "universal salvation" without proof or conflict. Why you cannot do the same is beyond me and my attempt to understanding your position is prohibited by your own admission of ignorance of the scriptures.

Don't go away and HIDE because you are confused just LISTEN to what the Bible tells you about the "WORD of God.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Otherwise how can you "be established in the Truth" if you do not read it and TRUST God to reveal what it means.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

]Do you know what these things really mean? Strive to obey the very simple yet complete words of Jesus, the Will of God. Very few are they who do. Many are they who go left and right of obeying Jesus' Gospel, his commands and teachings for us, for they follow many other things, neglecting Jesus, the narrow and strait.

Yes, rejecting Jesus and they will suffer the way, that leadeth to destruction

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 5:12 The person who has the Son has this life. The person who does not have the Son of God does not have this life.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

I am not that smart, but I have a very stubborn nature about me to check everything out, except what I have always known to be true, God and His Son Jesus. And you want to be my teacher? No, I make a terrible student, for I would find your errors, other's also and worst still even man's canonized Bible's, yet never God's or Jesus' (why would I ?).

Please, quote me from the Bible, and show my errors, least you leave me in ruin and destruction and it fall on your shoulders!

The safest place for truth is out of the reach of man, so it is safe in Heaven, yet we can find God & Christ within the Bible, being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves, Jesus and the Holy Spirit within us. We just need to understand God & Christ first, not error laden text books, instructors, history or the other things of man. The truth that stands alone can be found.[/B][/I][/COLOR]

"being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves"
Where do you think truth came from if God has not written the Bible?

Joh 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Heb 10:27 but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses."
29 How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

 

[katerinah1947]

IN MY OWN WORDS I believe that is exactly what the Bible teaches.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. FROM Your own words: " I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian", The Bible refutes your statement: Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

So what is your answer? How do you forget to reply to each exact scripture, ONE by ONE?
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. "just paper and ink with the Words of God within?" Oh, I see, so you just dismiss it as junk that has been contaminated by man? Don't you have a Lexicon, perhaps a lesson in Koine Greek would over simplify your understanding of what these things really mean? Don't you think God can overpower man enough to keep the basic teachings of the Bible intact if you are willing to SEEK it? Quoting the scripture is certainly not RANTING, sir. We are commanded to do that DAILY. Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Without the Spirit of Christ and the messages in the Bible, How else can you know the truth and remember it?
2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. I speak my words with the Word of God, so as not to add something like "universal salvation" without proof or conflict. Why you cannot do the same is beyond me and my attempt to understanding your position is prohibited by your own admission of ignorance of the scriptures.

Don't go away and HIDE because you are confused just LISTEN to what the Bible tells you about the "WORD of God.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Otherwise how can you "be established in the Truth" if you do not read it and TRUST God to reveal what it means.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yes, rejecting Jesus and they will suffer the way, that leadeth to destruction

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 5:12 The person who has the Son has this life. The person who does not have the Son of God does not have this life.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Please, quote me from the Bible, and show my errors, least you leave me in ruin and destruction and it fall on your shoulders! "being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves"
Where do you think truth came from if God has not written the Bible?

Joh 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Heb 10:27 but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses."
29 How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

Hi,
I think you are missing this man's point. Even Jesus talked of knowing much, but understanding little or nothing.
He is a classic example of "Being in the Spirit" You seem to be a classic example of knowing Scripture.
Both can get you to God. Both are acceptable to God. One though is with God. The other is only knowing of God.
...Katerina.

 

[he-man]

Hi, I think you are missing this man's point. Even Jesus talked of knowing much, but understanding little or nothing.
He is a classic example of "Being in the Spirit" You seem to be a classic example of knowing Scripture. Both can get you to God. Both are acceptable to God. One though is with God. The other is only knowing of God.
...Katerina.

Great to have you here, sorry to hear about poor steve..so...busy. That sounds great but can you give me a point by point answer to each scripture I posted?

IN MY OWN WORDS I believe that is exactly what the Bible teaches.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. FROM Your own words: " I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian", The Bible refutes your statement: Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

So what is your answer? How do you forget to reply to each exact scripture, ONE by ONE?
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. "just paper and ink with the Words of God within?" Oh, I see, so you just dismiss it as junk that has been contaminated by man? Don't you have a Lexicon, perhaps a lesson in Koine Greek would over simplify your understanding of what these things really mean? Don't you think God can overpower man enough to keep the basic teachings of the Bible intact if you are willing to SEEK it? Quoting the scripture is certainly not RANTING, sir. We are commanded to do that DAILY. Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Without the Spirit of Christ and the messages in the Bible, How else can you know the truth and remember it?
2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. I speak my words with the Word of God, so as not to add something like "universal salvation" without proof or conflict. Why you cannot do the same is beyond me and my attempt to understanding your position is prohibited by your own admission of ignorance of the scriptures.

Don't go away and HIDE because you are confused just LISTEN to what the Bible tells you about the "WORD of God.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Otherwise how can you "be established in the Truth" if you do not read it and TRUST God to reveal what it means.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yes, rejecting Jesus and they will suffer the way, that leadeth to destruction

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 5:12 The person who has the Son has this life. The person who does not have the Son of God does not have this life.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Please, quote me from the Bible, and show my errors, least you leave me in ruin and destruction and it fall on your shoulders! "being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves"
Where do you think truth came from if God has not written the Bible?

Joh 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Heb 10:27 but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses."
29 How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

 

[katerinah1947]

Great to have you here, sorry to hear about poor steve..so...busy. That sounds great but can you give me a point by point answer to each scripture I posted?

I will start working on your fine and pleasant request, now.

 

[katerinah1947]

With owning up to 8 Bibles at one time, I am down to one, and I couldn't find it, because it was in plain site.
I have to redo this. Sorry. Much is done, now. Actually I am done now.

I will start working on your fine and pleasant request, now.

Hi,
First let me say that I have a restriction posted on me, and by God, not to teach. I am horrible at that, to the point that if you learn from me, not my experiences, God will have to undo all I have done, just to put you back to where you were before I tried to teach you or anyone. Yes, this has been tested by me, and appears to b totally true.
...Katie.


IN MY OWN WORDS I believe that is exactly what the Bible teaches.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

But, because they also knew God and turned away from Him later.
Yes, read Hebrew 3:12. They knew God and left Him anyway.
Okay. Yes, if you know God and then turn away from Him, he gets angry. Imagine if they did that in heaven.


Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in that leads to: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation' and there are many who go in by it.

Yes, that seem fine.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Sure, but difficult in the way, is another translation.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Sure, He Jesus, was anwering a question. It is to a man who asked him: "Lord are there few that are saved" Jesus said strive..... He also says those who do iniquity will not be in the Kingdom of God, really saying that to know of Jesus is not sufficient for Him, but to Know Him is. (Meaning to me, if you know Jesus, then you know what He is about, you know His ways, and you follow them, to your best ability.)

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Yes, those who only know the name of Jesus and turn their backs on him, like in the desert to God, or just don't try to be Good, like Jesus is when they have seen His actions and abilities, just like those in the desert, He doesn't let them into the Kingdom of God.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

The keywords there are foolish (no fear of God) and wise (fear of God), each set of women knew God but one did not think it worthy to do as He asks us (no fear of God, no fear of hurting His feelings, maybe.) To miss wise and foolish, in the passages above 25:10, really changes, things. Again, He Jesus, seems to be saying, if you know Who I AM, and you refuse like Lucifer to do what is right, then yes, you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

FROM Your own words: " I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian",

To be a Christian, only means you believe in Jesus Christ. That is the minimum qualifications for God. Since I, you he sin and I sin continuously, telling God the truth may have something to do with that also. For the man on the cross with Jesus, merely said: This man has done nothing, while you and I are being punished for what we have done.(Jesus was there and listening) He then just asks Jesus to remember him later. And Jesus does. It is called lots of things that happening. Who cares. It just shows that as little as saying, "Hi Jesus. I sinned. Would you mind thinking about me, when you get to heaven?", is enough for Jesus, somehow.

The Bible refutes your statement: Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Again, turning away from a God you know.

However, I like this one, for myself. It reminds me that, if I never read the Bible, I can get a false sense of goodness. When I found out how many ways there were to sin, wow, I had a lot of work to do. I did that work, but even thinking we are not sinning might not be real. One day, and this got me into a lot of trouble with everyone, I gave up all forms of teasing. I also re instituted my work on no white lies ever.
In about three weeks, I did not tease at all, and I told no white lies. What I discovered though is I soon could not understand even the local news anymore on television. They tease that much, that unless one practices continually, one soon can't do it, and soon cannot understand lots of other people. Also the reverse is true.
I learned that teasing is a form of lies. To tease you must lie, to tell a truth. The truth can be good, or it can be bad. I was surprised, as I thought I was perfectly honest almost. Instead I found out that I lied hundreds of times a day.
I got in trouble. No one wanted me to be this way. Eventually I caved in, because supposedly those in the know, told me I was wrong about teasing being a sin. Later, I found out my sources were faulty. I found each of their faults.
Later, what Protestants and others might call a in the God moment, I was asked to never tease again, this time by God. This is my situation now.
I think about that with the above passage, also. The deceitfulness of sin.

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

Again, people who knew God and then turned away from Him. Maybe the unbelief is not believing God doing anything about their actions, even though they knew what he had done to the Egyptians, already and in their lifetimes.


Right, so you don't believe in God that will do things, that you know is real, then you don't get to go to where those who do trust and believe in God, Go.

You are so wearing me out, but I will continue.

So what is your answer? How do you forget to reply to each exact scripture, ONE by ONE?
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. "just paper and ink with the Words of God within?" Oh, I see, so you just dismiss it as junk that has been contaminated by man? Don't you have a Lexicon, perhaps a lesson in Koine Greek would over simplify your understanding of what these things really mean? Don't you think God can overpower man enough to keep the basic teachings of the Bible intact if you are willing to SEEK it? Quoting the scripture is certainly not RANTING, sir. We are commanded to do that DAILY.

Paul nor Abraham searched the Scriptures daily, yet they are okay with God. Why? You are lulling me, into a sense of trust.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I am actually too tired and actually sick. If you haven't responded yet, to the above, I will continue as soon as I recover.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Therefore many of them believed. Acts 17:12. They were fair minded enough to see if what Paul said was true.

Without the Spirit of Christ and the messages in the Bible, How else can you know the truth and remember it?

Sure, fine.

2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Yes, remembering what is and what is not is needed.

I speak my words with the Word of God, so as not to add something like "universal salvation" without proof or conflict. Why you cannot do the same is beyond me and my attempt to understanding your position is prohibited by your own admission of ignorance of the scriptures.

Okay, fine.


Don't go away and HIDE because you are confused just LISTEN to what the Bible tells you about the "WORD of God.


Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Translated well, yes.

Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Again translated well, yes.

Otherwise how can you "be established in the Truth" if you do not read it and TRUST God to reveal what it means.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yes, rejecting Jesus and they will suffer the way, that leadeth to destruction

Okay.

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Okay

1Jn 5:12 The person who has the Son has this life. The person who does not have the Son of God does not have this life.

OKAY

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

YES

Please, quote me from the Bible, and show my errors, least you leave me in ruin and destruction and it fall on your shoulders! "being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves"
Where do you think truth came from if God has not written the Bible?



Joh 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

YES

Heb 10:27 but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Okay.

28 Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Okay, back then that was true.

29 How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace?



30 For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."

Okay

31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

Okay.


Hi,
I have made my edits, to all of your comments. If your point to that man, is he might be wrong, I haven't thought enough yet.
However, how can you be certain, God who will not even destroy Satan yet, caused anyone to cease to exist, rather than just another definition of the word destruction, that does not include, ceasing to exist???
...Katerina.

Sent from my iPad

 

[he-man]

Hi, I have made my edits, to all of your comments. If your point to that man, is he might be wrong, I haven't thought enough yet. However, how can you be certain, God who will not even destroy Satan yet, caused anyone to cease to exist, rather than just another definition of the word destruction, that does not include, ceasing to exist??? ...Katerina. Sent from my iPad

Satan? 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demonic beings,

IN MY OWN WORDS I believe that is exactly what the Bible teaches. Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

God Thanks you and so do I. Mat 7:13

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in that leads to: απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation' and there are many who go in by it.

Yes, that seem fine.

God Thanks you and so do I.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find ευρίσκω it.

Sure, but difficult in the way, is another translation.

The Koine Greek does not suggest that: ευρος width; εὑρὼν ευρίσκω ευρίσκομεν εύρημα εύρηκα (found) find, location, placed

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able ισχυω .

By the way The better Greek would be: ισχυω strong enough, sturdy enough

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Yes, those who only know the name of Jesus and turn their backs on him, like in the desert to God, or just don't try to be Good, like Jesus is when they have seen His actions and abilities, just like those in the desert, He doesn't let them into the Kingdom of God.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Again, He Jesus, seems to be saying, if you know Who I AM, and you refuse like Lucifer to do what is right, then yes, you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

That was addressed to Stephen: FROM Your own words: " I guess that I don't even qualify as a Christian", To be a Christian, means you believe in Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:17 "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Again, turning away from a God you know. However, I like this one, for myself. I think about that with the above passage, also. The deceitfulness of sin.

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. απώλεια, perdition; destruction, annihilation

Again, people who knew God and then turned away from Him.You are so wearing me out, but I will continue.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. "just paper and ink with the Words of God within?" Oh, I see, so you just dismiss it as junk that has been contaminated by man? Don't you have a Lexicon, perhaps a lesson in Koine Greek would over simplify your understanding of what these things really mean? Don't you think God can overpower man enough to keep the basic teachings of the Bible intact if you are willing to SEEK it? Quoting the scripture is certainly not RANTING, sir. We are commanded to do that DAILY.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I am actually too tired and actually sick. If you haven't responded yet, to the above, I will continue as soon as I recover.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed. Acts 17:12.

They were fair minded enough to see if what Paul said was true. Sure, fine.

2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Yes, remembering what is and what is not is needed.

Don't go away and HIDE because you are confused just LISTEN to what the Bible tells you about the "WORD of God.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Translated well, yes.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Again translated well, yes.

Otherwise how can you "be established in the Truth" if you do not read it and TRUST God to reveal what it means.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yes, rejecting Jesus and they will suffer the way, that leadeth to destruction Okay. 1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Okay

1Jn 5:12 The person who has the Son has this life. The person who does not have the Son of God does not have this life.

OKAY

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

YES

Please, quote me from the Bible, and show my errors, least you leave me in ruin and destruction and it fall on your shoulders! "being just paper and ink, much like our puny fleshly selves"
Where do you think truth came from if God has not written the Bible?
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

YES

Heb 10:27 but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Okay.

28 Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Okay, back then that was true.

29 How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."

Okay
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

Okay.

 

[katerinah1947]

Originally Posted by katerinah1947 View Post
Hi, I have made my edits, to all of your comments. If your point to that man, is he might be wrong, I haven't thought enough yet. However, how can you be certain, God who will not even destroy Satan yet, caused anyone to cease to exist, rather than just another definition of the word destruction, that does not include, ceasing to exist??? ...Katerina. Sent from my iPad
Satan? 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demonic beings,

Satan in the light of Revelations 20:10,
....And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(No ceasing to exist here, for him.) (Still allows for God, to convert him in time.)

 

[katerinah1947]

Mark 9:38-42New International Version (NIV)

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

Causing to Stumble
42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

Part of my story,
Once I was incredible in the Word and did not know it, then. For fun, I would go to churches of all sorts, not just Catholic ones and listen. Yet, I started getting into touble because of those words above. I started getting in trouble with God.
I wondered why, then one day I found out. My answer was in Mark 9:38-42. On my. I really did not think perfecting others in God could ever be wrong, but it is some of the time.
Then, as much as possible, I stopped correcting preachers and priests. I did, most of the time....
...One day in simple terms, I was to go way beyond my in-The-Word training, and also find out that I am horrible at teaching, but later I would find out, all my experiences I can share. I just am not allowed to teach. (This is all from God. It is He who gave me all of this.)
So, I had this experience with the-Word-to-less-Word. God met me one day. There He is, Trinitarianly, in front of me. The next day, Jesus Christ came inside of me strongly, and I asked many questions, all of which were answered.
After that, I found out that like Job and Paul, I knew things that I could not tell you how they got into me. Mormons, sorry guys, dropped like flies, but incredibly nicely. One day I just said: I have nohting for Jehovah's Witnesses. That too was in me, but I didn't know it yet. The Holy Spirit merely pointed out to me that it was in me that answer. Off the topic, I will not put that here.
Later, as I now knew God, quite personally like Abraham did, my way with the Word changed. I lived it now. I live in the Word.
HeMan is fascinating, his languge is totally in-The-Word. I have to do much enjoyable work going back to speak in his language, which is Chapter and Verse. Although, I can communicate in other ways now, it is fun. Thank-you.
...Katie.

 

[he-man]

Satan in the light of Revelations 20:10,
....And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(No ceasing to exist here, for him.) (Still allows for God, to convert him in time.)

Lucifer​

The name is a cognate of the Hebrew word Shachar (שח&#1512 meaning dawn.

Isaiah 14:12 addresses the conquered king of Babylon as Lucifer “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!” This verse was interpreted by early Christians as referring to Satan. The name originally refers to the planet we call Venus; but because of its use in this verse has come to be connected with the dogma and tradition of Satan’s fall from Heaven.

It is used as a proper name or title only four times in the Old Testament, vis. (with the article) in Job 1:6, 12; 2:1; Zech 2:1 and without the article in 1 Chr 21:1

There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings.
Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil

David Joris (c. 1501–1556, Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.

Job says that it was all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him

In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge).
Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.

Satan Sa'tan. The word itself, the Hebrew satan, is simply an "adversary," and is so used in 1 Sam 29:4; 2 Sam 19:22; 1 Kin 6:4; 11:14, 23, 25; Numb 22:22, 33; Psal 109:6

The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels (2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive dispensation (Amos 3, 64, Apparitions were part of the popular creed : there were beings inimical to mankind inhabiting solitude, but not yet adopted in the association of religious ideas.

It correctly states that the word ζιζάνιον is cheat a troublesome weed in the grαinfields, resembling wheat, in our lit. only ρl. and then BAG inserts the word (tares). But BAG fail to say what the word cheat represented in the Semitics.

But what idiom is the word used for as ζιζάνιον cheat; weedy annual grass that often occurs in grain fields and other cultivated land; seeds sometimes considered poisonous as an idiom of someone who leads you to believe something that is not true; (mistakenly) cockle, tares which are a (synonym) darnel, tare

Earlier, indeed, a Satan, so called by way of eminence, occasionally appears as the malicious author of human misfortune, but only under the divine superintendence: e. g. incites David to a sinful act, (1 Chron. 21, 1); casts suspicions upon Job's piety (Job 1, 6' sq.), and, with Jehovah's permission, inflicts upon him a lot gradually more severe to the utmost point of endurance;

And appears as the mendacious impeacher (α κατηυωρ, Rey. 12, 10) οf the high-priest Joshua before the angel of God, but draws upon himself the divine malediction (Zech. 3, 1 sq.). Yet in all this he is as little like the Ahriman of the Zend Aνesta (Rhode, Heil. Sage, p. 182 sq.; Matthai, Religionsgloube d. Apostel, II, i, 171 sq.; Creuzer, Symbol. i. 705) as an indifferent prosecuting attorney general or judicial superintendent commissioned by Jehovah.

 

[he-man]

Satan in the light of Revelations 20:10,
....And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (No ceasing to exist here, for him.) (Still allows for God, to convert him in time.)

People who quote Is 14:12 as proof of a fallen angel also mistakenly quote Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
BUT fail to read that John tells you a different story. Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Lucifer​

The name is a cognate of the Hebrew word Shachar (שח&#1512 meaning dawn.

Hereafter, not something that previously happened!
Isaiah 14:12 addresses the conquered king of Babylon as Lucifer “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!” This verse was interpreted by early Christians as referring to Satan. The name originally refers to the planet we call Venus; but because of its use in this verse has come to be connected with the dogma and tradition of Satan’s fall from Heaven.

It is used as a proper name or title only four times in the Old Testament, vis. (with the article) in Job 1:6, 12; 2:1; Zech 2:1 and without the article in 1 Chr 21:1

There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings.
Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil

David Joris (c. 1501–1556, Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.

Job says that it was all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him

In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge).
Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.

Satan Sa'tan. The word itself, the Hebrew satan, is simply an "adversary," and is so used in 1 Sam 29:4; 2 Sam 19:22; 1 Kin 6:4; 11:14, 23, 25; Numb 22:22, 33; Psal 109:6

The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels (2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35),
and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive dispensation (Amos 3, 64, Apparitions were part of the popular creed : there were beings inimical to mankind inhabiting solitude, but not yet adopted in the association of religious ideas.

It correctly states that the word ζιζάνιον is cheat a troublesome weed in the grαinfields, resembling wheat, in our lit. only ρl. and then BAG inserts the word (tares). But BAG fail to say what the word cheat represented in the Semitics.

But what idiom is the word used for as ζιζάνιον cheat; weedy annual grass that often occurs in grain fields and other cultivated land; seeds sometimes considered poisonous as an idiom of someone who leads you to believe something that is not true; (mistakenly) cockle, tares which are a (synonym) darnel, tare

Earlier, indeed, a Satan, so called by way of eminence, occasionally appears as the malicious author of human misfortune, but only under the divine superintendence: e. g. incites David to a sinful act, (1 Chron. 21, 1); casts suspicions upon Job's piety (Job 1, 6' sq.), and, with Jehovah's permission, inflicts upon him a lot gradually more severe to the utmost point of endurance;

And appears as the mendacious impeacher (α κατηυωρ, Rey. 12, 10) οf the high-priest Joshua before the angel of God, but draws upon himself the divine malediction (Zech. 3, 1 sq.). Yet in all this he is as little like the Ahriman of the Zend Aνesta (Rhode, Heil. Sage, p. 182 sq.; Matthai, Religionsgloube d. Apostel, II, i, 171 sq.; Creuzer, Symbol. i. 705) as an indifferent prosecuting attorney general or judicial superintendent commissioned by Jehovah.

 

[Norah63]

Many threads have done away with the supernatural power in scriptures.
No devil, no power gifts to deliver from the adversary.
And we wonder as the thread says, 'will Jesus find faith' when He comes back to this earth?
Probably just about as much as when He came the first time, is my guess.
Blessed be for the church that will remain, and remain true!