Why would some believe christians will offer sacrifices in the millennial temple?

[parousia70]

The spiritual 'Temple' of the Lord's people during this Church age does not preclude an actual Temple to come later.

Do you believe the "Spiritual Temple" is real?

 

[Mark Brooks]

I have been studying with a group Christians in Ezekiel and about the temple of Ezekiel. I have always studied about the temple, and eschatology is one of my favorite subjects. I have formed an opinion that this temple will be built by the modern Jews, and that they will begin to offer the sacrifices and all the things pertaining to the Law (and not 'necessarily' this generation of Jews). But then Christ will then come to the gate of this new temple (if to understand Ezekiel's vision) and at that point the Temple Jews will recognize that He is the Lamb of God, the one who was slain. Who has holes in His hands, and then the Jews will recognize Him as the Lord and the Lamb. And then the sacrifices stop, the veil over their eyes is taken away, and from then on He reigns in the physical Jerusalem Temple. I am even wondering if this millennial temple is destroyed at that time, but I'm just trying to reconcile the church, and the body of believers in the body of Christ with the reign of Christ in the Millennial period (Dispensationalist and Covenant interpretations aside).

Why is it that some Christians whom I talk to think that temple will be a place where even Christians (and Jews) will continue some kind of system of sacrifices? To me that seems to be going back to the Law. Even though Paul seemed to participate in some temple rituals, that was before the destruction of Herods temple, and I believe Paul was just trying to be all things to all men, etc. and not trying to condone the institution of the sacrificial system of Atonement. Some have said that the offerings in the millennial temple will not be for atonement but for the thanksgiving, freewill and grain offerings only, that seems ok but I see all things being fulfilled and offered by Christ the priest of Ezekiel 45-48. And this will all be fulfilled in Christ, so I don't see any further sacrificial system, for sure for Christians, in fact I think it's blasphemous for Believers to re-enact the sacrifice, the Law and the systems of it, since it was 'all fulfilled in Christ'. What do you Think? I haven't explained this in detail but just seeing if someone else understands where I'm coming from. thanks.

 

[Mark Brooks]

I think in evaluating the whole question of future sacrifices in the temple during the Millennium a few things need to borne in mind. First we need to be insistent on the grammatical-historical interpretation of Scripture which commits us to taking Scripture literally unless the language employed is clearly of a symbolical/figurative nature. Accepting this as a starting point the Temple in Ezekiel 40-45 must be seen to be literal. It would be a waste of a lot of specific words for something which is to be interpreted merely "spiritually." Secondly, I believe it is crucial at this juncture to distinquish between God's earthly people the Jewish nation, and God's heavenly people, the Church. God has a distinct program for both groups. Keeping this in mind the Temple during the Millennium is clearly in the context of Ezekiel 40-45 an institution intended for and used by God's earthly people, the Jewish nation. NOTHING in Scripture indicates any participation in the Temple rites for God's heavenly people, the redeemed Body of Christ. Thirdly, why should this strike anyone as strange? We today in the Body of Christ celebrate the Lord's table with physical elements to commemorate a great spiritual event. Why should we think in strange if in the Millennial reign of Christ the Jewish nation, now purged of her unbelief and grafted back into the Olive Tree once again, would once again use a Temple ritual to commemorate the great spiritual event of her embracing as her Messiah the One she initially rejected in unbelief. I hope this helps.
Brother Mark Brooks

 

[keras]

Do you believe the "Spiritual Temple" is real?

Of course I believe the Bible, Paul's teaching. The believers of Jesus are now the spiritual Temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16

Brother Mark, your contention that there are Two Peoples and Two Promises is in error. Jesus said His people are one. John 10:16, John 17:22-23
You are another one who has bought the idea that the Jews are all Israel. The facts are that most of the true Israelite descendants remain scattered among the nations and it is them who constitute the bulk of the Christian people, as well as those grafted in. All true believers will gather soon after the next prophesied event; the Lord's Day of Wrath. Ezekiel 34:11-31 and Ezekiel 20:34-38 describe it best. They build a new Temple and prepare the world for the eventual Return of Jesus.

 

[keras]

How do you come to the conclusion in brackets from the posit in #1?
Doesn't the "return of Jesus" part eliminate the bracketed part?
And again, how does the understanding that there will continue to be natural disasters around the world, automatically lead one to the bracketed conclusion?
Well, presuming those are the only two options is where Pascal's wager falters in your application of it.
Again, I find it best to prepare for the reality that my physical demise will in all likelyhood precede any sort of eschatological precipice. And I'd recommend that sort of preparation for everyone.

I assumed that you, being a educated person would know about Pascal. But I put his premise [not my conclusion] in brackets for others who may not have had heard of this argument. Google it for more info.

Re natural disasters: we will, of course, continue to experience storms, earthquakes, etc as we always have. But there is data saying these things have increased in number and intensity. Matthew 24:8
However, we have the Prophetic Word and that tells us of some very dramatic events to come. Realise that this world has, in the past had many terrible things happen, the worst being the Flood in Noah's day. Jesus says: it will be like that again when He comes in Judgement. Matthew 24:37

 

[parousia70]

I believe it is crucial at this juncture to distinquish between God's earthly people the Jewish nation, and God's heavenly people, the Church.

Yeah, while we don't agree on everything, I'm firmly with Keras on this one.
The Church IS the Jewish Nation.
It existed all the way back in Moses' time. Acts 7:38 speaks of "the church in the wilderness" with Moses. The "church" is not something separate from Israel, but rather is the remnant of the faithful within Israel.

Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones (Isaiah 1:8-9). So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant (Romans 11:1-5).

The apostles continually say that the members of the Nazarene sect (at first all Jewish but later with converts added in to their numbers) are the true elect ones (2 Tim 2:10; Col 3:12; Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10 ).

Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel. The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).

Replacing the everlasting Gospel and eternal Church of Israel with a future temple Judaism, complete with blood animal sacrifices and forced circumcision is the TRUE replacement theology of BACKWARD REDEMPTION.

A concept that, according to the apostles, is a rebuke against the Blood of Christ, a falling away from salvation.

Why should we think in strange if in the Millennial reign of Christ the Jewish nation, now purged of her unbelief and grafted back into the Olive Tree once again, would once again use a Temple ritual to commemorate the great spiritual event of her embracing as her Messiah the One she initially rejected in unbelief.

Well, if we apply a LITERAL rendering as you insist, we can not escape the fact that the temple sacrifices and required physical circumcision in Ezekiel 40-44 are the very proprietary sacrifices of the Mosaic Law for the atonement of sin and acceptance by the Lord, and can not be "spiritualized away" into some sort of "memorial sacrifices" that "commemorate" Christ's once for all sacrifice on the Cross.

One can not claim literalism while spiritualizing away the sacrifices and circumcision in Ezekiel 40-44

 

[parousia70]

I assumed that you, being a educated person would know about Pascal. But I put his premise [not my conclusion] in brackets for others who may not have had heard of this argument. Google it for more info.

Every watch Jeopardy?
Answers in the form of a question...
Please phrase your conclusion in the form of a premise....

Regardless about the cart and horse here, My question still stands, and still remains unanswered. How does the premise "there is no God/there is no Judgement" match up up with "Jesus is coming back"?

 

[ebedmelech]

So we won't be seeing you here again then?
If we do, we know it's just your perversity and cantankerous nature!

Just a thought; why don't you apply Pascal's wager to the future?
1/ Nothing really serious is going to happen between now and the Return of Jesus. [There is no God, no judgement]
2/ There will be worldwide disasters and dramatic changes for everyone. [There is a God and you will be judged]
Pascal thought it best to believe and prepare for option 2, as if 1 was right, then that's it, but if 2 is right, then you are in deep poo.

Uh-huh. However you're not right Keras!

You're so far off target of what the scripture says you ought to give refunds to anyone who buys your so called "prophecy guides" upon request...because if they really sit down and read scripture, they'll want their money back.

 

[keras]

Every watch Jeopardy?
Answers in the form of a question...
Please phrase your conclusion in the form of a premise....

Regardless about the cart and horse here, My question still stands, and still remains unanswered. How does the premise "there is no God/there is no Judgement" match up up with "Jesus is coming back"?

Excellent post #126. Thanks.

Pascal's wager was whether we should believe in God or not.
What we need to decide right now is; will God reset civilization, as He did in Noah's day? If people like to think, as some here do, that things will just cruise along until one fine day Jesus will appear and He will dispose of all the wicked, leaving us good people to enjoy the Millennium; that's one choice.
Or, if a careful study of the Prophetic Word informs us that God is going to put everyone thru severe testing, then even just to be aware is better than being taken by surprise. But to know God's plans for His people is the best, as there are some amazing promises, of their redemption and how He intends to pour out His blessings on them. We can therefore, look forward with confident expectation to the future.

Ebed, your comments ae out of line as usual. My studies are free and they consist of scripture.

 

[Jipsah]

The Book of Hebrews is written for our edification during this current Church age.

Is it true or not? If it's true, then the very idea of restarting anomal sacrifice is blasphemous. If it's false, then how'd it get in the Bible, and how can it them be considered edifying?

It is in the OT and Revelation, that we find details of what will happen in the lead up to the Return of Jesus.
Hebrews 12:26 does mention the soon to happen shaking of the earth, that will commence all that is prophesied to come.

Hebrews true or not true? Has to be one or the other.

 

[Jipsah]

So how long do you think a prophet gets for his words to come to pass?

I'd say that if the prophet keeps repeating that something is to happen "soon", and thousands of years pass without it happening, then we can take the "thus saith the Lord" off of it and assume that the prophet was talking through his hat.

...so how long? 200 years? 2000 years?

How long'd he say?

 

[Jipsah]

I mean soon, like possibly this fall, if not this year, then 2016.

Do you have contingency plans in place when 2016 comes and goes without anything cataclysmic happening?

 

[Jipsah]

So we won't be seeing you here again then?

Why would he leave? Has everyone here been freed from DF nonsense yet? If not, then he needs to stay!

If we do, we know it's just your perversity and cantankerous nature!

Or more likely a more than sentimental attachment to the truth.

1/ Nothing really serious is going to happen between now and the Return of Jesus. [There is no God, no judgement]

Huh? It doesn't matter when our Lord returns if we're ready to meet Him now. A great many DFs seem to believe that they won't ever have to die. That isn't the way to bet; no one here is guaranteed to take another living breath! Nemmind being ready for The Rapture sometime Real Soon Now, be ready to die right now, and if the Lord shows up before you do then you've beaten the odds.

BTW don't really understand what that had to with Pascal's wagers. Are you somehow saying that we either have to believe DF hogwash or deny God? That's ridiculous.

2/ There will be worldwide disasters and dramatic changes for everyone.

Always have been, always will be until our Lord returns.

[There is a God and you will be judged]

No, you don't mean it!

Pascal thought it best to believe and prepare for option 2, as if 1 was right, then that's it, but if 2 is right, then you are in deep poo.

Never really read anything by Pascal, have you?

 

[keras]

Do you have contingency plans in place when 2016 comes and goes without anything cataclysmic happening?

Yes, I will continue to live in this very pleasant location, 100 yards from the beach, in my safe country of New Zealand, well away from the mess and turmoil of the Northern Hemisphere.
But I know there is coming to all the world dramatic changes and I look forward to them, because what the Lord has promised will be amazing and very fulfilling. Those who can't see or understand the Lord's plans, miss out on that hope,

 

[ebedmelech]

Excellent post #126. Thanks.
Ebed, your comments ae out of line as usual. My studies are free and they consist of scripture.

Well...at least you're misguiding people without charging them...but remember what James cautioned about being a teacher, because you teach error...that's just the FACT of the matter.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[keras]

The saints go to heaven and return as armies - following Him out of heaven.

THAT, Vinsight, is absolute unscriptural rubbish. The armies of heaven are angels. The saints remain on earth; they are the people who will greet Jesus with the shout: Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord.
Those saints that are killed for their faith, will be resurrected after the Return. Revelation 20:4
Your pronouncements are becoming somewhat annoying, please cease your desperate and repetitious posts pushing your false ideas. Failure to post scripture to prove your case, means you have no case.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Chicken Little]

I have been studying with a group Christians in Ezekiel and about the temple of Ezekiel. I have always studied about the temple, and eschatology is one of my favorite subjects. I have formed an opinion that this temple will be built by the modern Jews, and that they will begin to offer the sacrifices and all the things pertaining to the Law (and not 'necessarily' this generation of Jews). But then Christ will then come to the gate of this new temple (if to understand Ezekiel's vision) and at that point the Temple Jews will recognize that He is the Lamb of God, the one who was slain. Who has holes in His hands, and then the Jews will recognize Him as the Lord and the Lamb. And then the sacrifices stop, the veil over their eyes is taken away, and from then on He reigns in the physical Jerusalem Temple. I am even wondering if this millennial temple is destroyed at that time, but I'm just trying to reconcile the church, and the body of believers in the body of Christ with the reign of Christ in the Millennial period (Dispensationalist and Covenant interpretations aside).

Why is it that some Christians whom I talk to think that temple will be a place where even Christians (and Jews) will continue some kind of system of sacrifices? To me that seems to be going back to the Law. Even though Paul seemed to participate in some temple rituals, that was before the destruction of Herods temple, and I believe Paul was just trying to be all things to all men, etc. and not trying to condone the institution of the sacrificial system of Atonement. Some have said that the offerings in the millennial temple will not be for atonement but for the thanksgiving, freewill and grain offerings only, that seems ok but I see all things being fulfilled and offered by Christ the priest of Ezekiel 45-48. And this will all be fulfilled in Christ, so I don't see any further sacrificial system, for sure for Christians, in fact I think it's blasphemous for Believers to re-enact the sacrifice, the Law and the systems of it, since it was 'all fulfilled in Christ'. What do you Think? I haven't explained this in detail but just seeing if someone else understands where I'm coming from. thanks.

OK I so I have a question for you .
what is it exactly Jesus does in the temple right now and for the last 2000 years since the temple ended ? for the everyday on going sins created by his people and the world..
so that his people can have as much peace to work out their
"Issues" as possible ?
and what happens when he walks away from it ?
and what happens when he is ruling and not the priest?
maybe the church needs to understand the old testament sacrifices a little better.
this is about laws and legal issues .
there is nothing that He has ever done that was about religious ceremonies of religious or FEEL good reasons.. . it was about laws.
The church is completely disconnected from history and all of it's roots and made up it's own kind of Jesus . and their Jesus isn't lawful but is a magical Genie who can zap away sins and history and roots and laws and make them all go away.