Why the obsession with End Times prophesy?

[BobRyan]

I think this is a good discussion. Bob, you are correct that most will be asleep and not know what is happening, but speculation about the details is a distraction, and it prevents us from doing what God really wants us to do.

I agree with not "speculating" about what Jesus said in Matthew 5 and not speculating about what He said in Matt 24.

But I do not agree with "Read Matthew 5 but not the words of Jesus in Matt 24 they are too confusing" and the same goes for Revelation where it is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" -- There is no virtue in ignoring the words of Christ in one place and making up for it by saying it is still ok to pay attention to what he says in this other place.

We would not say "ignore the part about not coveting but pay attention to honoring parents".

The Jews got some of the truth right as Paul points out in 1 Cor 8. Their problem was picking-and-choosing and the parts they left out get them into a mess of trouble.

Speculating on the end times is like watching a football game. It is a total distraction to what is really going on in the world.

Would you have given that advice to someone living in Noah's day? Jesus said that you are talking about the exact same thing as that .
In my earlier posts I do express my own frustration with the way the "conflicing football game scenarios" go - especially when all most all of them add at the end "if you pick some other football scenario and are wrong -- it still does not matter".

It has some entertainment value, but in the end it does nothing to improve the lives of the spectators.

So then driving through town during the Chicago fire and finding various signs telling you how to safely exit -- leaves you thinking -- there is no benefit to paying attention to people trying to guide you safely out of here since I know some of them are wrong.

Speculating on end times is like watching the Super Bowl. You cheer and are happy when your team wins, but do you get any benefit from watching? No!

Ok that's the point in my first two posts on this thread.

When those promoting the games say "in the end it does not matter if you listen to me or not - it will be fine with you" -- then as you say the whole thing is pointless.

I make that point at the start.

But you are missing the elephant in the living room -- that I pointed out before. IT ALWAYS mattered! It was ALWAYS life or death to get it right as we see in the case of the flood and in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. Which is exactly the point Christ makes in Matt 24.

To insist that we not pay attention to Christ in Matt 24 or pay attention to the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" in the book of Revelation -- or any other part of the Word of God where God is trying to give us a very strong warning about the end of time -- is not at all "the safe secure" path.

 

[BobRyan]

The things which we must do to ensure our salvation are the same things we must do in preparation for the end times.

True. We must listen to what God says and follow the steps He tells us to take. Whether it is instruction about accepting the Gospel or instruction about what HE calls the "everlasting Gospel" in Rev 14:7 or instruction Christ gives in Matt 5 or instruction that we find in the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" in the book of Revelation.

The step of "ignore what God tells you and all will still be well" is not there.

Furthermore, they are irrelevant to this thread.

As long as we are actually paying attention to what God tells us in His Word, paying attention to the warnings He gives about everyone being duped at the end of time etc. Ignoring those warnings is like the Jews ignoring the warnings of John the baptizer and then saying to themselves "still -- all will be well".

It makes no sense.

What you and the Adventists liking your posts are ignoring is that the OP is not complaining about preparing for the Parousia

Everyone here - "including Adventists that post" are agreed on the basics of accepting the Gospel. The topic we are dealing with is all the Bible warnings for Christians at the end of time as found in Christ's words in Matt 24 and in the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" in the book of Revelation. IT is about the fact that the "rapture" event that you see in Matt 24 is preceded by a world wide delusion where even the elect would be taken in by it if they were not paying very close attention.

Christ had very devoted followers in John 6 and in other places - who had "left ALL and followed Christ" even when it was not popular with church leaders - but even THEY abandoned Christ at His arrest. Even THEY said in Luke 24 on resurrection sunday evening "we trusted that this was the one who would deliver Israel" - they were on the wrong side of the issue right down to the wire and even on resurrection Sunday evening.

This is not a trivial topic according to Jesus. Jesus said the delusion would be so strong it would deceive if possible "the very elect". He knows what He is talking about.

2 Thess 2 says it deceives those who do not have a LOVE of the truth -- It does not merely say "it deceives those who have no truth"

, but rather the tendency of Christians to be distracted from the repentence

No need to be "distracted from repentance" just because one reads and studies the words of Christ in Matt 24.

No need to argue that if you pay attention to Christ in Matt 5 you must ignore what He warns the saints about in Matt 24.

I don't see how that even gets to be "a thing"

I should think this would be particularly evident to Adventists given that in your innovative eschatology there is no intermediate state of Heaven or Hell before the Last Judgement, but rather anyone who dies, the next thing they know, will have awakened to face the dread judgement seat of Christ.

Well that is not what we teach.

We say that when one dies they are immediately awakened either at the resurrection and rapture event in Rev 19 and 1 Thess 4:13-18,... OR ELSE they are the the Rev 20 event that gets to the great white throne judgment in that chapter. In either case - for them it is immediate because in 1 Thess 4 and in 1 Cor 15 and in John 11 the intermediate state is a dormant state where the soul records no time passing... it is an instant.

in any case, if you suggest that what we must do to prepare for our own death (or, a point in our life where it becomes exceedingly difficult for us to repent and develop a true living faith and join the Church, for example, if we become mentally disabled as a result of a stroke, or traumatic brain injury, or Alzheimers or other forms of dementia one might broadly attribute to senility) is different from what we must do to prepare for the parousia

I did not write Matt 24 - it is Jesus speaking and what He does not say is "ignore all Bible warnings about the end of time -- just accept Me as your Savior".

as I noted in post #4 Jesus said in Matt 24 "I have told you in advance" when warning against the massive fake second coming that is going to happen. He says that those who heed His warning, His clues - need not be duped at the end. It looks like you are arguing that ignoring the warnings of Christ - and being duped at the end - is really not all the bad. Where do you get that from?? Are you thinking that if someone accepts Christ as Savior today then ignores all the warnings of Christ about not jumping off a cliff and so they jump anyway - that all will be well with them as they are "not" following Christ?

IN Matt 7 Jesus said a certain thing about those who hear His words but do not follow them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
"24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Matt 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes out of the mouth of God.’”

Matt 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

2 Thess 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth

Rev 13:13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of the sky to the earth in the presence of people. 14 And he deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform

2 Cor 11:14 even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

========================

A lot of folks in Noah's day living thousands of miles from the Ark could have been saying "I am just trusting God.. why pay attention to those warnings Noah has been giving for 120 years... when I can just trust God". Trusting God by faithfully ignoring His warnings is not the best kind of "trust" that there is.

A lot of folks in Israel would cry out "The temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord" Jer 7:4 -- yet it was destroyed.

 

[BobRyan]

as I noted in post #4 Jesus said in Matt 24 "I have told you in advance" when warning against the massive fake second coming that is going to happen. He says that those who heed His warning, His clues - need not be duped at the end. It looks like some are arguing that ignoring the warnings of Christ - and being duped at the end - is really not all the bad. Where does that idea come from??

 

[The Liturgist]

@BobRyan - I am not proposing we ignore Scriptural verses about the end of time. Indeed a Coptic priest who I like delivered the best sermon on it (the Coptic Orthodox are the Presbyterians of the East in terms of their skill at homiletics). I am just saying the kind of obsession over it which the OP complains about is a distraction from the Gospel message of repent and believe on Christ that we might be saved, which is not an easy task contrary to what the Evangelicals think, but rather our salvation according to St. Paul is to be worked out with fear and trembling. Thus while we should not ignore the end times, it is more likely that death will catch up with us first, so we need to prepare ourselves for both events as they are equally inevitable, and the way we do that is the largely, perhaps entirely, the same, for each scenario.

But when you have congregations talking about the end of the world every week as the predominant subject, that is evidence of a church which has gone off course.

 

[The Liturgist]

This is why and many believe fig tree represent Israel.

But it could well represent the Church, which is the new Israel, and even if it represents the Jewish people, a huge number still live outside Israel, and indeed among the Chassidic and Charedi Orthodox Jews Zionism is not a popular opinion, and they themselves would be the first to differentiate between Israel as the Jews vs. the State of Israel.

Note by the way my view is not one of opposition to the State of Israel but I find myself frustrated by the fact that some evangelicals have nothing but praise for it despite the way it mistreats Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians, for example, when the Church of the Nativity in Bethelehem was shot up after some Palestinians accused of terrorism sought refuge in it.

I am also annoyed that Israel, like the US, has not recognized the 1915 genocide against Armenians and other Christians by the Turks and am further annoyed that they along with NATO, Georgia and the Russian Federation and everyone else for that matter have sat by and allowed an Islamist regime in Azerbaijan to capture and ethnically cleanse Ngorno-Karabakh.

As an amusing aside, the Knesset Building sits on land leased from the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Jeremiah 24 3 And the Lord said to me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?” I said, “Figs, the good figs very good, and the bad figs very bad, so bad that they cannot be eaten.” Jeremiah 24.5-8 shows that God is referring to those Jews who are whole-hearted followers of God (the good figs), and to those rebellious Jews who had rejected God (the bad figs).

The "Fig-tree" is a fit emblem of Israel. Its peculiarity is that the blossoms of the fruit appear before the leaves. Naturally, therefore, we should look for fruit on a tree in full leaf. This accounts for why Jesus cursed the Fig-tree that had on it nothing but leaves. Matt. 21:18-20. The presence of the leaves led Him to expect fruit, and when He found none He cursed the tree for its fruitlessness. Mark gives us another version of the incident. Mark 11:12-14. He says that Jesus found nothing but leaves, "for the time of figs was NOT YET."

In the Parable of the "Barren Fig-tree" (Luke 13:6-9) we have another picture of Israel. The "Fig-tree" is the Jewish nation. The "Fig-tree" was planted in a "Vineyard," which we have seen stands for the land of Palestine. The owner of the Vineyard and of the Fig-tree was God. He came in the person of His Son Jesus, and for three years of Jesus' ministry He had sought for fruit from the Jewish nation and found none. He therefore decided to cut down the tree, that is, remove the nation from the Vineyard.

This is why and many believe fig tree represent Israel. I'm not here to argue for or against it, I am just simply stating why I believe this to be the case.


Yes I heard this argument many times. I am not here to argue for or against it, I'm just pointing out that there are born again Christians who share this view and those who do not, and those who believe in spiritual 1000 years and those who believe in physical 1000 years. Why this is the case, I do not know. I was also saying that if the pre-trib rapture is true, then those who believe it should write about it. Again I'm not here to argue about the rapture, this is not the place for it, just saying that there are some who believe it.

Yes, there are people that claim to be Christians that hold to a Rapture based on certain “proof texts” of the Bible.
It all sounds godly and wise , and those that hold it think they have a strong basis, but when you study the rest of the Bible, the error becomes plain. Listen to the argument:

The rapture folk say that we are not appointed unto wrath. God would not let us go through the Great Tribulation. He loves us. Suffering is mean. You don’t believe in the rapture because you are an unbeliever and you will get left behind.
Then you will see, and maybe you will get a second chance.

What does the Bible say? All those that live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Be faithful unto death and I will give you a crown of life. If any man come after me, let him deny himself take up his cross and follow me. Wide is the gate, broad is the way that leads to destruction. Narrow is the way, straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it. Paul tells us that if Christ be not raised, we are men most miserable. Why would he say that if we were going to be spared all suffering by being raptured?
Jesus told us to rejoice in suffering and beware when they all speak well of you; they spoke the same way about the false Prophets. He also said a servant is not greater than his master. They hated me, they will persecute you also.
The rapture folks appear to make a good argument, and many believe it, but belief does not create truth. Truth inspires belief.
The rapture folks believe that they are suffering for Jesus when they are ridiculed and dismissed because others won’t believe this rapture talk. No, they are just being obnoxious and ignoring Christ’s commands. Showing up, clapping your hands, paying a tithe, and making lip service to Jesus is Lord will not get you into heaven anymore than those that tried to buy indulgences in the middle ages. If you knew what an indulgence is, you would know that you can’t buy it, but that is another thread topic.
Jesus says that if you love me, keep my commandments. We know for a fact that Jesus said to love your enemies, but do we do it or pay lip service to that too?
We all have enemies, and they are put in our life to give us opportunities to grow in virtue. Stop think. Who are my enemies? Why do they irritate me? What can they teach me? How do I love them? If you don’t know, then pray and ask God. You can learn virtue by prayer, fasting and almsgiving. Well, my pastor says that I don’t have to do that because we are saved by faith not by works. Oh really? Then you will be out of luck when the day of judgement comes, because every enemy in your life is an opportunity to show God that you love Him, by following His commandments. Every one. What so ever you do to the least of my brethren you do to me.
It is a fact that the Rapture is fantasy, because it hasn’t happened yet and exists only in the mind of those that preach it. Your enemies are real, here , now. You can show God that you love Him by actively loving them. Don’t know how? Then ask God, liked the man that pleaded and begged. I believe! Help thou my unbelief. God does not want us living in fantasies, rather to have active living faith now in this world. 2John1:7 tells us not to cling to fantasies but our faith is for the here and now

 

[seeking.IAM]

I don't have an answer for the "why" of it. As for me, I hold that it is a waste of time and energy to obsess over things that may or may not happen in the future or whose occurrence I have no power to change. Things will end when and how they will end, and there is not one thing I can do to change the course of it. My belief about it doesn't really matter as what will be will be. I believe our obsession should be on loving the Lord our God with all our hearts, loving our neighbors as ourselves, and striving to be good disciples as best we understand what that means. That done, we are well-suited for whatever God has in store for us next.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Yes, there are people that claim to be Christians that hold to a Rapture based on certain “proof texts” of the Bible.
It all sounds godly and wise , and those that hold it think they have a strong basis, but when you study the rest of the Bible, the error becomes plain. Listen to the argument:

As I said in my previous post, I am not here to argue about eschatology, I was simply stating that some born again Christians believe in the rapture while others don't. I was also showing some Bible verses why I believe that Israel is the fig tree, and I am not stating that my view is the correct one, I was just saying why I believe this.

The rapture folk say that we are not appointed unto wrath. God would not let us go through the Great Tribulation. He loves us. Suffering is mean. You don’t believe in the rapture because you are an unbeliever and you will get left behind.
Then you will see, and maybe you will get a second chance.

I did not wanted this be the discussion about eschatology. Nevertheless I will reply to some of your points. I nor anyone that I personally know that holds the rapture view says that only those Christians who believe in the rapture will be raptured and those who do not believe the rapture view will be left behind. No, all the born again Christians will be raptured, even those who do not believe in the rapture. Maybe some claim what you say, but please do not put us all into one basket. I am not better than any other Christian, is is unfathomable love that God would die for a sinner like me. It is not our views on eschatology that makes us Christian, but the Holy Spirit. Neither does a denomination makes us Christian. There are true and false Christian in every denomination, whether Presbyterian, Baptists, Evangelical, Catholic etc. Likewise it is with paedobaptism, there are some who practice it, while others say it's unbiblical, and guess what, both groups think that they are the ones that are right, while the other group gets it wrong. Now what? Are you going to also claim that one group is saved while the other is not?

In regards your other point about the wrath of God and tribulations. I cannot speak for others, but nowhere do I claim that Christians will escape tribulations, that would be unbiblical and calling God a liar. The rapture is escaping the Great Tribulation, the wrath of God that will be poured on inhabitants on Earth as described in the book of revelation. As every born again Christian has been judged in Christ and Christ took the wrath for our sins, there is no more wrath of God upon us. That does not mean we will have it easy now. No, we will face difficulties and persecutions, some even martyrdom but that is not the wrath of God.

Maybe read my posts one more time, because nowhere do I state that I know all the truth on eschatology and everyone else who holds opposite view is wrong. Nowhere do I state that I am the one who holds the true revelation of God. I am aware I am probably wrong on some things, I was just stating why I believe them. Even all the Jews thought that the Messiah will be a warrior and they were all wrong, so we might be all wrong as well.

As I said, we all think we have the right interpretation, and the other group is wrong. Well, sometimes it is us who is wrong.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

But it could well represent the Church, which is the new Israel, and even if it represents the Jewish people, a huge number still live outside Israel, and indeed among the Chassidic and Charedi Orthodox Jews Zionism is not a popular opinion, and they themselves would be the first to differentiate between Israel as the Jews vs. the State of Israel.

I do not hold the view that Church has replaced Israel, rather that we were added unto the house of Israel. I also believe that Gid is not finished we the house of Israel, and the elect remnant of Israel will be saved. I know the Jews are scattered all around, but I know for God this is not a problem, He knows where they are. Why I believe He is not finished with Israel?

Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.- The Lord here does not speak about the gentiles, but about the house of Israel.

There will be a day in the future, when the Lord will pour His Spirit on the remnant of Israel and they will repent of crucifying their Messiah. Zechariah 12 10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Romans 11 11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion[a] mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[b] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

 

[NBB]

Thing is, maybe 4 generations will experience the end of the world, and how many lived since the beginning? i mean, we all probably die, being a car rolls over you, or you just get old, thats what going to happen to the vast majority, so 'our end of the world' is closer for all of us than 60 years less for older people. So then i don't see the point in raising panic and nobody will know when it happens says the bible. I guess is better to just preach the gospel and not be alarmists, also there is a lot of people with enough stress and maybe some spiritual and mental health issues, and need healing and rest, not prophecies of the end of the world.

 

[WilliamK76]

Why the obsession with End Times prophesy?​

Christian nihilism.. people longing for their misery on planet earth to end so that they can be with Jesus.

 

[David Kent]

To calculate dates is nonsense. The Lord clearly told us not to do so. Our main priority is to love God and that means to obey His commandments.
Whoever does the will of God does not need to worry which day Christ returns.

However we should watch the times.
Matthew 24 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The fig tree is Israel and ethnic Israel is back in their land. So we know that summer is nigh and so is Lord's second coming. Why is this important? Because the Lord said in Matthew 23 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Lord Jesus will not return to Earth until Israel (at least the elect) say 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord'.

I am premil and believe in pre-trib rapture. But I know many born again Christians don't. If the rapture is true, will Christians miss it because they don't believe in it. No. Then why do I spread it? Because all the false christians will be left behind. Ofc my interpretetion of the eschatology can be wrong.

In regards to millenium, one may ask, what does it matter, we will find out anyway. Well because every word of God matters. So I will argue the premil view, but yes I am guilty of at times being too agressive and frustrated with people who don't share this view and I must remind myself of God's grace and that the gospel is far more important.

The fig tree in that case does not represent the Israel, Luke says the fig tree and all the trees. Do all the trees represent israel? Of course not. Luke said "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, the know that its desolation is near." That happened when the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem.

 

[David Kent]

I agree with not "speculating" about what Jesus said in Matthew 5 and not speculating about what He said in Matt 24.

But I do not agree with "Read Matthew 5 but not the words of Jesus in Matt 24 they are too confusing" and the same goes for Revelation where it is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" -- There is no virtue in ignoring the words of Christ in one place and making up for it by saying it is still ok to pay attention to what he says in this other place.

We would not say "ignore the part about not coveting but pay attention to honoring parents".

The Jews got some of the truth right as Paul points out in 1 Cor 8. Their problem was picking-and-choosing and the parts they left out get them into a mess of trouble.


Would you have given that advice to someone living in Noah's day? Jesus said that you are talking about the exact same thing as that .
In my earlier posts I do express my own frustration with the way the "conflicing football game scenarios" go - especially when all most all of them add at the end "if you pick some other football scenario and are wrong -- it still does not matter".

So then driving through town during the Chicago fire and finding various signs telling you how to safely exit -- leaves you thinking -- there is no benefit to paying attention to people trying to guide you safely out of here since I know some of them are wrong.

Ok that's the point in my first two posts on this thread.

When those promoting the games say "in the end it does not matter if you listen to me or not - it will be fine with you" -- then as you say the whole thing is pointless.

I make that point at the start.

But you are missing the elephant in the living room -- that I pointed out before. IT ALWAYS mattered! It was ALWAYS life or death to get it right as we see in the case of the flood and in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. Which is exactly the point Christ makes in Matt 24.

To insist that we not pay attention to Christ in Matt 24 or pay attention to the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" in the book of Revelation -- or any other part of the Word of God where God is trying to give us a very strong warning about the end of time -- is not at all "the safe secure" path.

The way to prevent people succumbing to the coming fire is to preach repentance and faith in Christ. Warning people of the judgement without telling them how to be saved is useless.

 

[Aaron112]

The way to prevent people succumbing to the coming fire is to preach repentance and faith in Christ. Warning people of the judgement without telling them how to be saved is useless.

Is not that what Jonah, sent by Yahweh, did though, in /to Nineveh ? He apparently did not tell them they had any way to escape destruction.....

 

[BobRyan]

The way to prevent people succumbing to the coming fire is to preach repentance and faith in Christ. Warning people of the judgement without telling them how to be saved is useless.

What is is about Matt 24, 2 Thess 2, Rev 13, or the everlasting gospel in Rev 14 that requires us not to tell people how to be saved in your POV?

 

[BobRyan]

Is not that what Jonah, sent by Yahweh, did though, in /to Nineveh ? He apparently did not tell them they had any way to escape destruction.....

Yeah -- Jonah's message, Noah's message, Lot's message ... and Matt 24 seem to focus a lot on warning people to avoid the huge crisis at hand. But it does not tell them to reject God's plan of salvation.

It is not an either-or - but rather because we accept Christ, and the Bible - we read what He said about this subject.

 

[BobRyan]

Why the obsession with End Times prophesy?​

Christian nihilism.. people longing for their misery on planet earth to end so that they can be with Jesus.

Or maybe it is just reading the Bible. Holding it at enough of a distance and get to all sorts of peace-and-safety messages right before the closing moments of a crisis as example of Noah and Lot remind us.

 

[BobRyan]

Thing is, maybe 4 generations will experience the end of the world, and how many lived since the beginning? i mean, we all probably die, being a car rolls over you, or you just get old, thats what going to happen to the vast majority, so 'our end of the world' is closer for all of us than 60 years less for older people. So then i don't see the point in raising panic and nobody will know when it happens says the bible. I guess is better to just preach the gospel and not be alarmists, also there is a lot of people with enough stress and maybe some spiritual and mental health issues, and need healing and rest, not prophecies of the end of the world.

When Jesus was specifically asked if he had a message for mankind on this subject in Matt 24 - what He did not say is "don't worry about it, it probably won't happen in your life time... think about something else.. this one is not worth your time..." -- as any reader of Matt 24 discovers.

The same is true in the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" - Rev 13, Rev 14, 15, 16, 19 etc. And this is also true in 2 Thess 2...

All those "don't worry about it - no need to be concerned with these details" messages are missing from the actual text.

 

[BobRyan]

As I said in my previous post, I am not here to argue about eschatology, I was simply stating that some born again Christians believe in the rapture while others don't.

I used to think I was one of those who did not believe in the rapture - but then looking at 2 Thess 2 and Matt 24 and John 14:1-3, I realized that I most certainly do accept what they teach about the rapture.

 

[Aaron112]

I used to think I was one of those who did not believe in the rapture - but then looking at 2 Thess 2 and Matt 24 and John 14:1-3, I realized that I most certainly do accept what they teach about the rapture.

As you delight in Scripture, you might delight in Watchman Nee's rare description of it from all Scripture, difficult to find online or in print. Happy searching if you delve into this.