Why such a seeming contrast in NDE accounts where people saw hell... and heaven?

[DennisTate]

My wife gave me a truly shockingly scary near death experience account to watch yesterday. I have already watched 48 minutes and I think that this would make a good discussion:

Angelica Zambrano (23 Hours Dead) Visits Heaven & Hell (with English voice-over) - GNLi:Christian Videos
Angelica Zambrano (23 Hours Dead) Visits Heaven & Hell (with English voice-over)

Uploaded by Your Living Manna on Jul 13 2013
For a period of 23 hours, a young Ecuadorian girl named Angelica was shown the Kingdoms of Heaven and Hell, and the Return of Christ. She witnessed Jesus weeping as He overlooked multitudes of souls lost forever, a world that has rejected Him, a Church that is mostly unprepared for Him, a people that have stopped witnessing to the lost, and an entertainment industry that even lures children to satan. She witnessed many of our esteemed cultural icons
suffering in the Pit.Angelica was also shown how the Kingdom of Heaven is all wonderfully prepared and ready, an unimaginable glorious place, where no evil exists. Though Jesus is ONLY coming back for a Holy People, and many of God's children will NOT be ready on that day, and will be left behind in a world that will fall apart.
For those who want to know how to avoid hell, the plan of salvation is as easy as ABC...

A- Admit you are a sinner. (Romans 3:10; 23)

B- Believe that Jesus died for your sins. (Romans 5:8)

C- Confess your sins asking Jesus to forgive you for them (I John 1:8-9) and to become the Lord (director) of your life. (Romans 10:9-10)

D- Develop your relationship with God from the truth of the Bible (John 17:17) and through daily prayer (1 Thessalonians 5:17).

E- Evangelize: Share this plan with everyone! (Matthew 28:19,20)

Prepare to meet your God!

Why does there seem to be such contrast between NDE accounts.....even the ones in which somebody has met with Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua?

 

[DennisTate]

The NDE of Dr. George Ritchie seems so much more positive and encouraging?????!!

George Ritchie - Near-Death Experiences | Near-Death.com

4. A Brief Summary of George Ritchie's NDE

The following is a brief summary of Dr. George Ritchie's near-death experience. You can read his entire NDE testimony in his book, Return From Tomorrow and the Internet archives.

a. His Out-of-Body Experience and Life Review with Jesus

George Ritchie dies of pneumonia in a Texas Army hospital and leaves his body unaware he is dead. He wanders around the hospital ward and wonders why people cannot see or hear him. Wanting eagerly to travel to Richmond, Virginia, to finish college, the thought instantly sends him flying through the door of the hospital and into the air - traveling thousands of miles toward Richmond. He is bewildered about these sudden supernatural powers of flight and transparency he has attained. He then arrives at a city with a bar and discovers the people there cannot see or hear him either. He also has no solidness there either. He flies back to the Army hospital where he sees his lifeless body in the morgue and realizes he is dead..

Suddenly, a being of tremendous light and love appeared before him. Ritchie realizes this light is like "a million welders' lamps all blazing at once." Human eyes would be destroyed in a second if they saw it. The being tells Ritchie to stand up. Ritchie is astonished to learn he is standing before Jesus Christ. More than anything emanating from Jesus was the unbelievable amount of unconditional love shining from him - a love that knew everything about Ritchie and loved him just the same. Simultaneously, as Jesus appeared to him, Ritchie watches his entire life displayed before him. Jesus asks him, "What have you done with your life?" Ritchie tries to come up with several examples but realizes he has fallen short. Ritchie eventually realizes Jesus is not judging him at all; but rather, Ritchie was judging himself. And the question "What have you done with your life?" had more to do with "How much unconditional love have you given others."

 

[DennisTate]

I am pretty sure that this writing will help to explain the difference:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/fans...ho-had-been-very-shy-on-earth/438250039585847
Rick Joyner meets old friend in heaven who had been very shy on earth!

.....

"How could you be the least?" I asked with disbelief.

"There is an aristocracy here. The rewards for our earthly lives are the eternal positions that we have here. This great multitude here are those whom the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives on earth."

I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one could lie in that place.

"The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I protested.

"And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond any grief possible on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be understood by those who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified when it is revealed next to the glory of the One we failed. You are standing now among the lowest rank in heaven. There is no greater fools than the ones who know the great salvation of God, but then go on living for themselves. To come here and learn the reality of that folly is a grief beyond what an earthly soul can experience. We are those who suffered this outer darkness because of this greatest of follies."

I was still incredulous. "But you are more glorious and full of more joy and peace than I even imagined, even for those in heaven. I do not feel any remorse in you, and yet I know that here you cannot lie. This does not make sense to me."

Looking me straight in the eyes, he continued, "The Lord also loves us with a love greater than you can yet understand. Before His judgment seat I tasted the greatest darkness of soul and remorse that can be experienced. Though here we do not measure time as you do, it seemed to last for as long as my life on earth had lasted. All of my sins and follies which I had not repented of passed before me, and before all who are here. The grief of this you cannot understand until you have experienced it. I felt that I was in the deepest dungeon of hell, even as I stood before the Lord. He was resolute until my life had been completely reviewed. When I said I was sorry and asked for the mercy of His cross, He wiped away my tears and took away the great darkness. He looked at me with a love that was beyond anything that you can now understand. He gave me this robe. I no longer feel the darkness or bitterness that I knew as I stood before Him, but I remember it. Only here can you remember such things without continuing to feel the pain. A moment in the lowest part of heaven is much greater than a thousand years of the highest life on earth. Now my mourning at my folly has been turned into joy, and I know that I will know joy forever, even if I am in the lowest place in heaven."

(Pastor Rick Joyner)
The Hordes of Hell are Marching

(From the section The Judgment Seat of Christ)

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Could be there's no REAL truth in any of that stuff, and it's all "Rabbit trails".

NDE Foolishness isn't something that I'd waste my time on. Chances are they never really saw ANYTHING other than hallucinations.

 

[rev2214]

realistic dream? nobody goes to heaven or hell until the second coming

 

[DennisTate]

Could be there's no REAL truth in any of that stuff, and it's all "Rabbit trails".

NDE Foolishness isn't something that I'd waste my time on. Chances are they never really saw ANYTHING other than hallucinations.

The research on what blind people "see" during a NDE is kind of impressive!


.near-death.com/experiences/evidence03.html

People Born Blind Can See During a NDE

Dr. Kenneth Ring's NDE Research of the Blind

 

[DennisTate]

realistic dream? nobody goes to heaven or hell until the second coming

That is what I used to believe too until 1990 when I began to research NDE accounts and concluded that the sure did seem to fit with II Corinthians 12:2-4.

2 Corinthians 12 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[PersephonesTear]

I think the reason that people see different things is that when they have these experiences, they are all at different places. Obviously, God knows whether they are there to stay or not - and he shows them what they need to see in order for them to have a better life for the rest of their lives.

OR...

People see what they expect to see because these experiences are all in their heads.

It is a fascinating thing to study, though, surely. Even so, no matter who says they have been there - we can't know what it's like until we go there ourselves and are there for good, not just for a visit.

 

[parsley]

I think the reason that people see different things is that when they have these experiences, they are all at different places.

Also, God seems to show them things that they need personal reassurance on. Greeting relatives they weren't sure they'd ever see again, living in homes that were tailor made for them.

With the visions of Hell, I can't say whether the person really was destined for Hell, but the FearOfGod was shaken into them from the experience. Most people who are not passionate about evangelism let things slide, and forget that their friends and family members might suffer as a result of their choices.

I find that the ones of Hell are also helpful in understanding the spiritual world. Most of those begin with an angel of light who appears benevolent but sappy sweet, then transforms into a destructive, hateful being. It is good for us to be reminded that all that glitters is not of God.

And it is good for us to be reminded of the hope beyond our lives here! We get so caught up in daily activities and putting out fires here, that we distance ourselves from the hope of an easier life with God at the center.

 

[DennisTate]

Also, God seems to show them things that they need personal reassurance on. Greeting relatives they weren't sure they'd ever see again, living in homes that were tailor made for them.

With the visions of Hell, I can't say whether the person really was destined for Hell, but the FearOfGod was shaken into them from the experience. Most people who are not passionate about evangelism let things slide, and forget that their friends and family members might suffer as a result of their choices.

I find that the ones of Hell are also helpful in understanding the spiritual world. Most of those begin with an angel of light who appears benevolent but sappy sweet, then transforms into a destructive, hateful being. It is good for us to be reminded that all that glitters is not of God.

And it is good for us to be reminded of the hope beyond our lives here! We get so caught up in daily activities and putting out fires here, that we distance ourselves from the hope of an easier life with God at the center.

Parsley.......I am impressed by your take on all this!!!!!!

You have really given me something to think about?????!!!

At 11:30 in this film.......little Colton Burpo reports that Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua showed him his cousin who baptized him, King David, John and Peter, Samson....and his white horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally........I take the words of this little guy VERY VERY VERY SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DennisTate]

I think the reason that people see different things is that when they have these experiences, they are all at different places. Obviously, God knows whether they are there to stay or not - and he shows them what they need to see in order for them to have a better life for the rest of their lives.

OR...

People see what they expect to see because these experiences are all in their heads.

It is a fascinating thing to study, though, surely. Even so, no matter who says they have been there - we can't know what it's like until we go there ourselves and are there for good, not just for a visit.

Moonpup.....I truly appreciate your stating that this is "a fascinating thing to study" because I was kind of wondering if there was something wrong with me for being so fascinated by this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually got myself booted out of the Worldwide Chruch of God and out of the Philadelphia Church of God due to my fascination with these accounts!!!!!

I am of the belief that they can play a massive role in the predicted AWAKENING......outpouring of the Holy Spirit that makes what happened to the 120 on Pentecost look small in comparison!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7681942/

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"The research on what blind people "see" during a NDE is kind of impressive!"

But it PROVES absolutely nothing.

 

[DennisTate]

"The research on what blind people "see" during a NDE is kind of impressive!"

But it PROVES absolutely nothing.

To somebody in the mind set of Richard Dawkins Ph. D. yes........but if I want to feel that it strongly indicates something important.....I live in a free country and that is my prerogative to disagree with the Richard Dawkins approach to life!!!!!?????

 

[DennisTate]

"The research on what blind people "see" during a NDE is kind of impressive!"

But it PROVES absolutely nothing.

Well......somebody just sent me the link into an article that does a pretty good job of explaining how and why many seeming contradictions seem to come up regarding doctrines!!!

I love the explanation that this is because of the difference in how time is viewed in the spiritual realms vs how we human view time?????!!!!


Near Death Revelations on the Confusion About the Rapture of the Church
Buck Stephens:

buckstephens.typepad.com/blog/2012/05/near-death-revelations-on-the-confusion-about-the-rapture-of-the-church.html

Now for those of you who have trouble accepting this “calling away” or
“rapture” of the Church, I want you to know that the Lord gave me revelation
in my encounter with Him regarding this as well. The reason there is so
much confusion and disagreement about this is due to the way time-bound
physical minds like ours view it. We must overlay the physical with the spiritual
so that we can understand.


As we have discussed before, a day is as a 1000 years to the Lord and vice
versa. I told you that I experienced an ever-present now when I was in His
presence. The point is that time means nothing to God, and all the events of
humankind are played out in what is a microcosm or flash moment of eternity
to God. The Tribulation is seven years long, and the Great Tribulation
is three and a half years—or the second half of the seven-year Tribulation.
What is that time to God—nothing!


We must look at the events of this time as God sees them and not as separate
events as we would tend to view them. We must look at it as He does, as
one event, the second coming of Jesus!

 

[Messy]

I don't think everything is from the Lord. I heard testimonies, like from that man that really died and was resurrected with Reinhard Bonnke and Ian McCormack, but I don't listen to and believe everything on youtube. A girl from the office also had a NDE, but it was not from God because she's not a christian. She was only nearly dead. So, is everything everybody sees 100 % kosjer or should we test it or maybe not listen to it?

 

[DennisTate]

I don't think everything is from the Lord. I heard testimonies, like from that man that really died and was resurrected with Reinhard Bonnke and Ian McCormack, but I don't listen to and believe everything on youtube. A girl from the office also had a NDE, but it was not from God because she's not a christian. She was only nearly dead. So, is everything everybody sees 100 % kosjer or should we test it or maybe not listen to it?

I have noticed that a NDE where the being is met and a review of the life occurs are at an entirely different calibre than the ones that are mostly just an out of the body experience that has no life review!!!??

 

[tturt]

There are different accounts because it depends on Yahweh's purpose - for those that are real.

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." II Cor 5:8 He is talking to believers here.

But we've no idea when this "...absent from the body..." actually occurs because death is when both the spirit and soul leaves the body permanently - James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead,..." and 1 Kings 17:21-22 "And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again."22 And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Since the to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord Scripture is true for believers and when we consider that there were resurrections in The Bible, some near death experiences have to be real.

 

[Purge187]

realistic dream? nobody goes to heaven or hell until the second coming

This. If so-called NDE lead people to Christ, great, but I doubt they're anything more than vivid dreams.

 

[DennisTate]

There are different accounts because it depends on Yahweh's purpose - for those that are real.

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." II Cor 5:8 He is talking to believers here.

But we've no idea when this "...absent from the body..." actually occurs because death is when both the spirit and soul leaves the body permanently - James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead,..." and 1 Kings 17:21-22 "And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again."22 And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Since the to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord Scripture is true and when we consider that there were resurrections in The Bible, some near death experiences have to be real.

Very well said tturt!!!!

Colton Burpo sure remembers how it was his dad's bold chutzpah prayers that caused his soul / spirit to be sent back. He of course did not want to leave heaven!!!

 

[CGL1023]

My wife gave me a truly shockingly scary near death experience account to watch yesterday. I have already watched 48 minutes and I think that this would make a good discussion:

Angelica Zambrano (23 Hours Dead) Visits Heaven & Hell (with English voice-over) - GNLi:Christian Videos
Angelica Zambrano (23 Hours Dead) Visits Heaven & Hell (with English voice-over)


Why does there seem to be such contrast between NDE accounts.....even the ones in which somebody has met with Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua?

I have read a few ND experiences of others. I think they are of no practical value though they could de-rail an impressionable believer/(soon-to-be-believer). What we know about heaven or hell is in the bible. In order to believe an individual's OBE/NDE you would have to add to the bible. This is not to say these experiences are not as a person describes them. They are simply extra-biblical and not suitable for Christian doctrine.