Why is LOTR acceptable among Christians...

Hetta

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I think this difference in emphasis between the two series is important. In HP the occult is eagerly pursued and explored. This focus of the series strongly encourages interest and exploration of the occult in the viewer/reader. I could see younger viewers/readers in particular being lured into the occult as a result. A very dangerous prospect for the reader/viewer made curious about magic who then delves into the occult - and inevitably into the realm of the demonic.
I have never heard of any kids being lured into the occult. All of my kids read the series, and not one of them tried out any spells and none of them have been "lured into the occult". They know it's fantasy. It's no less fantasy than any other book or any other movie they have ever seen.

So there's nothing "inevitable" about it. Unless you have some proof of that.
 
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Hetta

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So true. I was going to mention good ol' Gollum/Smeagol as well. He's such a tragic character. Another of my favorite "tasty" aspects of LOTR is that this poor, tormented, unwanted creature plays SUCH an incredible and pivotal role in the story in the end. As Gandalf so wisely says "Do not be too quick to deal out death in judgement... even the very wise cannot see all ends." What a prophetic statement, and obviously referring to Gollum.

Even though Aragorn gets the physical crown and the social/political glory (and not undeservedly, I might add), Frodo is the heart of the tale. The humble, unassuming character is the true hero. Such an awesome lesson for the world.

<3 <3 LOTR <3 <3
:) That quote is one of my favorites of the whole book. The part of it I like best is the "inbetween" part of those lines "many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager etc .." When I first read LOTR as a young teen, I thought I was probably opposed to capital punishment, but that line really spoke volumes to me about why I felt so opposed.

Aragorn spoiled me for men for the rest of my life, however. LOL.
 
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Inkachu

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Definitely my favorite quote in the story, too! That's why I have it memorized lol. It's SO powerful and universally true. <3 Gandalf <3

Yeah, I've had crushes on just about every male character in the whole story lol.
 
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Billy Bayou

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I think people fail to realize that LOTR is total fiction... elves, dwarfs, hobbits, etc.

Harry potter is based on wizardry and witchcraft. These are actual recognized religions now.

HP has added to an ever growing interest in the occult. (enter Wizards or Waverly Place) The number of Wicca in North America is on the rise and HP glorified this Satanic path.

My kids have watched the HP and LOTR movies. However, there was a discussion that went along with them to keep it all in prospective and understand the pitfalls of any "magic" or grander than life occurrences other than what comes from God

There are powers out there. But all of it came from God in the beginning. It is now a fight between good and evil and we must know that there is only one true being worthy of our worship. that is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, Be careful.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I think people fail to realize that LOTR is total fiction... elves, dwarfs, hobbits, etc.

Harry potter is based on wizardry and witchcraft. These are actual recognized religions now.

HP has added to an ever growing interest in the occult. (enter Wizards or Waverly Place) The number of Wicca in North America is on the rise and HP glorified this Satanic path.

My kids have watched the HP and LOTR movies. However, there was a discussion that went along with them to keep it all in prospective and understand the pitfalls of any "magic" or grander than life occurrences other than what comes from God

There are powers out there. But all of it came from God in the beginning. It is now a fight between good and evil and we must know that there is only one true being worthy of our worship. that is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, Be careful.

I think this is such a good point. As parents, we all have to decide what we believe to be acceptable for our children, and I'm not criticizing anyone's choices.

But what I can really appreciate is that you took the time to discuss it with them. Kids are going to grow up and go out into the world. I'm always a little worried about the ones that are completely shielded from everything. There is usually a "wild period" where they go out and taste for themselves what they've come to feel has been denied them. And they are usually not well-prepared to discern properly, and as well it usually happens during the period when they are most vulnerable to caving in to peer pressure. It's true some return to their faith and their parents' standards afterward, but others do not.

On the other hand, by talking things out with them, parents can teach them to think critically and evaluate for themselves, as well as giving them the tools to do so.
 
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RDKirk

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So true. I was going to mention good ol' Gollum/Smeagol as well. He's such a tragic character. Another of my favorite "tasty" aspects of LOTR is that this poor, tormented, unwanted creature plays SUCH an incredible and pivotal role in the story in the end. As Gandalf so wisely says "Do not be too quick to deal out death in judgement... even the very wise cannot see all ends." What a prophetic statement, and obviously referring to Gollum.

Even though Aragorn gets the physical crown and the social/political glory (and not undeservedly, I might add), Frodo is the heart of the tale. The humble, unassuming character is the true hero. Such an awesome lesson for the world.

<3 <3 LOTR <3 <3

Although as far as I've always been concerned, Sam is the man.
 
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RDKirk

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I have never heard of any kids being lured into the occult. All of my kids read the series, and not one of them tried out any spells and none of them have been "lured into the occult". They know it's fantasy. It's no less fantasy than any other book or any other movie they have ever seen.

So there's nothing "inevitable" about it. Unless you have some proof of that.

I don't know about any kids being lured into the occult specifically by HP, but you can search YouTube for young teens recording their own attempts to enter the occult.
 
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Hetta

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I don't know about any kids being lured into the occult specifically by HP, but you can search YouTube for young teens recording their own attempts to enter the occult.
And that comes back to - who believes anything they see on YT? Not me. I keep saying this but my 13yo posts videos on YT (not about the occult). It's about bragging, imo.

I doubt there is an increase in kids being silly. So it has always been, so it shall always be ...
 
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Hetta

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I think this is such a good point. As parents, we all have to decide what we believe to be acceptable for our children, and I'm not criticizing anyone's choices.

But what I can really appreciate is that you took the time to discuss it with them. Kids are going to grow up and go out into the world. I'm always a little worried about the ones that are completely shielded from everything. There is usually a "wild period" where they go out and taste for themselves what they've come to feel has been denied them. And they are usually not well-prepared to discern properly, and as well it usually happens during the period when they are most vulnerable to caving in to peer pressure. It's true some return to their faith and their parents' standards afterward, but others do not.

On the other hand, by talking things out with them, parents can teach them to think critically and evaluate for themselves, as well as giving them the tools to do so.
Yes.

We discussed HP and LOTR, but then we have always, as a family, talked about everything that the kids were exposed to. We're just talkers. Disney movies .. cartoons .. Sponge Bob .. etc. Talked about it all. Even if just to laugh about it.

I don't agree with shielding kids from age appropriate material. I was too shielded as a child and that going wild phase was particularly, ah, wild for me.
 
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Hetta

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One of the biggest problems that I experienced for my kids was the judgments that were passed on them by kids who weren't allowed to watch HP. That was sickening stuff and really had an impact on my eldest kid's faith. Being told he was not a Christian because he had read HP was pathetic.
 
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Inkachu

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I think people fail to realize that LOTR is total fiction... elves, dwarfs, hobbits, etc.

Maybe I'm missing your point, but LOTR includes human beings as well. And HP also has elves, dragons, and other non-human creatures.

?
 
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Inkachu

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Although as far as I've always been concerned, Sam is the man.

Oh, Sam is near and dear to my heart. Who DOESN'T love Sam? I can't really rank the characters as to who's my favorite(s), I love so many of them for so many different reasons. Sam IS amazing, though. You cannot watch the final scenes on the slopes of Mt. Doom without bursting into tears; if you can, you're a robot.

I don't know about any kids being lured into the occult specifically by HP, but you can search YouTube for young teens recording their own attempts to enter the occult.

I just want to point out that sometimes we measure what's "normal" behavior for kids based on our own kids, our relatives' kids, our friends' kids, etc. There is a huge, godless culture outside of our Christian circles, where kids are being raised by godless, ignorant parents, and largely left to their own devices to decide what's right and wrong. I don't think it's coincidental that the recent upsurge in Wicca/witchcraft among kids and teens happened alongside the exploding popularity of HP. Do I have an actual study I can quote and post here? No. Just my thoughts.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I just want to point out that sometimes we measure what's "normal" behavior for kids based on our own kids, our relatives' kids, our friends' kids, etc. There is a huge, godless culture outside of our Christian circles, where kids are being raised by godless, ignorant parents, and largely left to their own devices to decide what's right and wrong. I don't think it's coincidental that the recent upsurge in Wicca/witchcraft among kids and teens happened alongside the exploding popularity of HP. Do I have an actual study I can quote and post here? No. Just my thoughts.

Well ... (And I'm not arguing with you btw, but kind of confirming what you say)

I have some friends from back in my mothering-advocacy days who are anti-Christian or from sects within Christianity with very opposing views (actually I think THEY oppose, not their churches). I also made a great many "friends" on FB when I used it only for gaming. Many of them are atheist, Wiccan, pagan, and all sorts. I've met people in other avenues as well.

Many of them I got to know better, and have remained friends with. And yes, I see a LOT of things going on in their parenting that as a Christian, really concern me. Of course, they all love their kids and do what they consider best, and a lot of good things happen too. But ... Children tend to follow their parents, at least to a certain point, and some of what I see really concerns me.

Actually, the 13 year old daughter of a friend of mine recently became a follower of Christ. She was so excited to tell me. A LOT has happened over the years, but my first conversation with this girl was when she was 3 or 4 and her mother had asked me to take her somewhere. I had a Christian radio station on in my car, and she must have listened to the words of the songs. She piped up to tell me the reasons why her Mom said she shouldn't believe in Jesus. I told her a few truths, but was very gentle. I'm not one to try to secretly convert children against their parent's wishes. Anyway, long story short, most of my conversations have been with the mother approaching me, and I love her dearly. She has become a seeker herself now, but her daughter coming to faith was very heartwarming to me.

Wow, I rambled on that one. Wasn't my point. Sorry about that, lol.
 
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Inkachu

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Yay for rambling! :D

Anytime I step outside the "Christian" culture and engage in stuff like my online games, or other forums for some other stuff I'm involved in, I see stuff that practically makes my hair stand on end. Kids who celebrate lifestyles that you NEVER see here on CF. And they aren't bad, horrible, awful kids; they're lost kids living in lost families. It's what's normal to our secular society. And it definitely includes witchcraft (Wicca, Tarot, Ouija, etc). Just like any other human being, these kids are desperately looking for meaning, purpose, and a sense of control over their lives; they're just looking in all the wrong places. And while - again - I don't have any studies or articles I can quote from, I have personally heard of kids getting interested in witchcraft after reading HP. Whether or not they went on to become immersed in the occult, I'll never know, but the initial "Hmm, that sounds fun, I wonder if people do it for real?" questions DO occur. And without parental guidance... who knows?
 
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Billy Bayou

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Maybe I'm missing your point, but LOTR includes human beings as well. And HP also has elves, dragons, and other non-human creatures.

?

My point was that witchcraft is real. It is a real religion. HP was based on actual terminology and basic fundamentals of this very real satanic religion.

LOTR has humans, yes, but the plot is total fiction. HP increased the interest in WICCA and numbed Christians to the seriousness of it.

Remember Satan is the greatest liar ever created. the great deceiver. He twists things just enough to move you from Christs path, yet keeps it believable enough that you are convinced you are still on it.

I believe that Christians of this day, although we are true followers of Christ and believe that the gospel is the only way to salvation, we are calloused and numbed to the real truth of the evil in this world. It leaves us as enablers of the expansion and growth of evil, even though we are saved.
 
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LoricaLady

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Just because someone goes to Church on Sundays and calls himself or herself a Christian, are those the tests that they are really worshipping, and following Messiah?

Tolkien was a genius and a great story writer. But, let's be honest. His stories were 100% pagan. Gandalf is a wizard. A wizard is a male witch. Seems to me the Bible had something to say about avoiding witchcraft, not to mention paganism. Yeal, it said a lot about that.

Think of the one eye over the tower. Look at the back of the dollar bill where the "all seeing" eye of Horus sits on an Egyptian Pyramid.

Yeal, the eye in TLOTR was defeated. By magic. By elves who used magic and Gandalf who used magic to help Frodo. And when Frodo tossed the ring into the burning fire in the mountain, he was following the rules of magic.

There is nothing Christian about TLOTR.

Really, though, we have been raised to believe that magic, really witchcraft, can be good since hearing fairy tales. Disney especially popularized this idea. Think of the witchy creature that shows up with Cinderella and uses a magic wand to change her outfit and mice etc. with magic words like "Bibbidy bobbidy boo." Think of Sleeping Beauty where there are "good" witches changing her gown's color as she dances. Disney is replete with the idea that witchcraft can be good, can save the day. But, again, fairy tales have frequently had that theme.

Let's face it, we were raised up in spiritual Babylon. We live in the midst of it. And more so every day.

Praying for discernment for you in this area.
 
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My point was that witchcraft is real. It is a real religion. HP was based on actual terminology and basic fundamentals of this very real satanic religion.

LOTR has humans, yes, but the plot is total fiction. HP increased the interest in WICCA and numbed Christians to the seriousness of it.

Remember Satan is the greatest liar ever created. the great deceiver. He twists things just enough to move you from Christs path, yet keeps it believable enough that you are convinced you are still on it.

I believe that Christians of this day, although we are true followers of Christ and believe that the gospel is the only way to salvation, we are calloused and numbed to the real truth of the evil in this world. It leaves us as enablers of the expansion and growth of evil, even though we are saved.


And that's why I actually didn't allow it in my home, we didn't read it, or watch the movies.

Well, I actually DID pick up one of the books at the library, and look at it enough to verify that it did include incantations and other things that could have been real (I don't know enough to actually be able to confirm or deny that) and to get a sense of what the characters were about, some of the motivations, and so on.

I had heard of course that it was demonic, but you can find someone who calls anything demonic. So, for the sake of making an informed decision, I checked it out and decided that that particular book wasn't appropriate for my daughter at her age. (There was no movie then, as I recall.)

So I can't comment more on HP than that.

If it was based in some reality, that might actually be the problem. I've played several series of video games, typical with magic, dragons, monsters and such. There has only been ONE game that really disturbed me. I got physically sick when I played it, and after a few times of that I destroyed it and threw it out.

That game was a puzzle game that seemed very innocuous. I believe your character was a reporter who went into the mountains in search of what happened to a group of people who had disappeared. I only got as far as some symbol puzzles carved in rocks. But I read some more after it made me so uneasy and sick and found it was based on a real situation, and some kind of ancient gods were supposedly involved.

The game on it's cover, and in playing the early stages gave no indication of this. But - it gave me the creeps, and I got sick at my stomach every time I played it. THAT one concerns me more than all the dragons, talking lions, and mermen in the other games I was playing.
 
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Billy Bayou

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I have never heard of any kids being lured into the occult. All of my kids read the series, and not one of them tried out any spells and none of them have been "lured into the occult". They know it's fantasy. It's no less fantasy than any other book or any other movie they have ever seen.

So there's nothing "inevitable" about it. Unless you have some proof of that.

I googled "increase in witchcraft" and was shocked to see the information out there.
 
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Neither one of those suggest that she isn't a Muggle (genetically). What exactly are you trying to put forth here? I'm confused. Are you saying she has non-Muggle ancestry? That she's not physically Muggle-born?

You can correct if I am wrong, but you said that she is a Muggle herself, and that only by intense study she was able to perform magic and go to Hogwarts.

I never said that she wasn't Muggle born, I clearly stated that, but from what I have read, she herself isn't a Muggle. She is a witch born of Muggles.

Maybe we're just talking semantics, but she was never actually considered a Muggle, even though her parents were.
 
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