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Why I love TAW

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by RKO, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member

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    no probs! any faction, especially political, will have it's ignorant folk that just spout stuff out. for every Fred Phelps, there is a Jeremiah Wright.
     
  2. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

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    I quit speaking to a guy I knew in high school because of this. He had said something along the lines of "people can't play the religion card because Obama isn't Muslim and Romney is a <insert expletive here> anyway". I told him that if anyone can claim the religion card it would be Romney because of his Mormonism and how the only socially accept prejudices by all Americans is anti-Mormonism and anti-Catholicism.
    And that's how the fight got started...


    Elections are a sham anyway. The real election doesn't happen until December when the electors in the electoral college go to vote and if all of them were Communists and voted in the Communist presidential candidate than it would be perfectly constitutional.
     
  3. gzt

    gzt The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

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    More apt is perhaps banks, Wall Street. Halliburton was billions in contracts and a longstanding series of engagements involving the VP, Solyndra a few millions of loans as part of a much broader renewable energy program of which Solyndra was one of the very few investments to go south, a blip on the radar. But, you know, Wall Street, that's where it's at.
     
  4. rusmeister

    rusmeister Contributor

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    Either way, indeed, on both sides of the aisle, you are looking at plutocrats telling the "demo" (us) that we "crat".
     
  5. Nephi

    Nephi Newbie

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    This reminds me of when Romney came and spoke at my campus during the campaign, and there were non-religious (read: militantly atheist) students making jokes (if they can be called that) about him getting assassinated, and the one example I have in mind was because Romney "doesn't like gays" and the student was a homosexual himself.

    People that make threats (or threatening jokes) about these sorts of things are, to put it bluntly, idiots. Too often these same people would be up in arms if their political or social champion were treated similarly by others.
     
  6. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    And then there was the flurry of "we just need to get a NOOSE and take Obama out!" Facebook statements on election night after the big win...sigh

     
  7. Nephi

    Nephi Newbie

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    Thank God none of my facebook friends did that. It was mostly sad/disappointed status posts, with a couple of people being the bigger man and overcoming their loss to extend respect to their Democrat friends and relatives.

    Not having much of a dog in the fight from voting third party, I didn't post anything. :cool:
     
  8. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    Twice my own priest has thrown the "don't vote for what will better YOUR career or YOUR life, vote for morality!" admonishment my way....

    Well, I do have a fairly independent spirit myself. I find Obama and his posse have ties to people with communist pasts and nefarious operations. Obama has been cozy with Monsanto, the corrupt GMO company that is poisoning our food supply. I hate his gay stuff and abortion pandering.

    Then there's Mitt Romney, a corporate hack guhjillionaire who has made a career off outsourcing, manipulating companies, firing people, and dumping companies at opportune times. He is a flip-flopper from a religion I distrust highly and he'll say and do whatever it takes to get elected.

    In the end, I care that my parents keep their social security and medicare as well as tricare, their only means of income and survival. I also am weary of war, rich tax cuts, sabre-rattling, and bravado. I'm also tired of the union-busting efforts going on by the GOP.

    So at this point in history, I don't buy my priest's recommendations that my vote will help ANY morality because they're both morally bankrupt, these two parties. They both pander to corporations of their own choosing, both inhale lobby money, and in the end they serve a hidden agenda be it socialism or vulture capitalism, both being un-Christian.

    So I voted Obama. And I realize he'll probably screw things up. I just felt Romney would've screwed 'em up more! LOL

    I'm trying for entitlements status quo, union status quo, and frankly focusing on maintaining my own livelihood...yes, a bit of selfishness as I realize that there is no moral choice anyway....


     
  9. Darth Bagel

    Darth Bagel Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you bro, in a lot of ways it was a choice of the "way lesser of two evils". I do find many of Obama's policies compelling, I just decided a long time ago that I wasn't going to allow the social issues like gay marriage and abortion dictate my voting record because I don't believe you can legislate morality. So the issues that did compel me to vote Obama (and re-register as a Dem) were the issues of the economy, the environment, energy and foreign policy among others. I think those are all things that Obama has a much more keen understanding and a more compelling plan than Romney ever did.
     
  10. rusmeister

    rusmeister Contributor

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    To those who say, "We cannot legislate morality", I say that we do and must, if we have the political power to do so. We DO outlaw murder, rape, and a host of other moral violations, and the civilization that refuses to legislate morality must collapse.

    The laissez-faire attitude towards the social behavior of others is one that does not take into account the effects of that behavior on families and children, as well as what the citizenry shall consider normal and abnormal, decent and indecent.
     
  11. Darth Bagel

    Darth Bagel Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree, but I wonder if we have the right to force our will on others (Christians on non-Christians) when God didn't do that to us or anyone else?

    For things like murder, rape, slavery, abuse, etc. there's a general consensus that transcends religion, creed or orientation and the view is that they're all wrong. However, when you get into other issues the variations on opinion and perspective become much more diverse. So it becomes an issue of whether or not we can and should force a group or groups of people to adhere to the morals and values that we (Christians) subscribe to. If the shoe was on the other foot and, say, the Hindu population demanded that we quit eating beef not only would we think that's just preposterous (except for vegetarians) but we would also feel violated if Congress actually considered legislation saying eating beef was illegal, right? We're not Hindu, so why should we have to honor Hindu laws or rituals?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, just wanting to offer up a different perspective.
     
  12. Faithful Skeptic

    Faithful Skeptic Newbie

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    I don't vote, and I didn't vote on Tuesday. I personally identify as an anarchist. I don't throw my weight behind any degree of evil, "lesser" or otherwise. All politicians will invariably have evil aspects, whether this be a feature of themselves or merely a facet of the office which that hope to fill. Politics is evil, and while I do follow politics closely, I do not wish to participate it. The only authority that I submit to is perfect, and that's God's.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-usa-campaign-pakistan-idUSBRE8A70A020121108

    No thanks.
     
  13. rusmeister

    rusmeister Contributor

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    To FS: First of all, we ARE commanded to submit to civil authorities. Anarchy is inconsistent with that, for it denies the authority in general. It is true that they do not have authority to dictate that we act in contradiction with our Faith, but they DO have authority in general. Anarchy is a thing that destroys civilization and is the opposite and enemy of freedom.

    To Bourne - as INDIVIDUALS, we are to turn the other cheek, see ourselves as the chief of sinners, not impose our will over those not under our authority. But as parents, we must impose our will on children, if we are in power we must enforce order on society, even if only by upholding and enforcing existing laws, if voting DOES have power, then by voting we are in fact forcing our will on others and they on us (depending on who wins).

    So the mistake is to mix and match our responsibility as individuals before God and our responsibilities as citizens in civil society. A Christian ruler might HAVE to uphold a death sentence - or one of imprisonment. The alternative is to say that he mustn't, which again, merely means anarchy.
     
  14. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member

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    yeah, my priest, although a conservative if ever there was one, always warned us about stuff like that because, especially from an Orthodox POV, no single politician has ever gotten it right as far as the Church is concerned.

    one wonders if someone like Rudy Guiliani would have gotten the nomination. what would you do if both candidates are pro choice? then what?
     
  15. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    :thumbsup:
     
  16. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    I voted for an Independent because his beliefs and stance on the issues mirrored mine. I was very much at peace this election that I haven't felt that great voting really ever.
     
  17. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member

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    no matter who I have voted for, I have always felt good coming out of the ballot box, even if my guy didn't win. the only thing I don't like is all the nasty reactionary personal stuff (like the name calling) that always happens right afterwards. that usually gets me down.
     
  18. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    I think a lot of the folks who try to legislate morality with abortion and homosexuality often times have a type of "representative theology." By that I mean, in politics we are a consitutional republic, not a direct democracy. We elect people to vote the issues we share, to work FOR us, represent us, in the senate, house, state level, etc. Same with president.

    But with these moral imperatives, we as Christians are called to get out there and stop abortion by witnessing to the faith to individuals considering abortion. We are to get out there and help women at shelters, our neighbors, and to try to fund and support those alternative clinics that help disenfranchised women. But instead of doing these hard things, we can just elect a guy in the house, senate, or presidency to do it for us. To me, that's a bit of a cop-out. Armchair Christianity. Same with the gay stuff. You can't legislate it, you have to preach against it, witness against it, raise your kids against it, and stand up to society on your own and with your church and like-minded people. Rolling up our sleeves and doing this stuff ourselves isn't easy. Having a representative do it feels easy. But in the end, even these passionate pro-life Republicans, imho, use these social issues as wedge leverage to keep people in their camp while corporate greed, power, and control are the real issues these cats care about.
     
  19. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    Sure, that's understandable. This was the first time I voted using my brain completely by researching all the candidates and not just filling in the circle next to people I didn't know their total stances, but they had an "R" next to them. I'm glad I'm not a political party zombie anymore because it was really blinding and slavery for me. Not saying you or anybody else who happens to be a republican or democrat is a zombie. I just know I was!!!
     
  20. rusmeister

    rusmeister Contributor

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    Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like you're setting up an either-or dichotomy. It's obvious to me that one can both engage in personal witness and work to discourage immorality in civil life by legal means.
     
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