Why I jumped ship to the left

[JackRT]

Neither Muslim nor American culture is monolithic. There are many Muslim cultures and many American cultures. Some have a greater number of shared values and customs and others a smaller number. All Muslims are also individuals anf not clones of everyone else in the same environment. They can also change beliefs and values for better or worse.

Very well said.

 

[OzSpen]

Don't know of many sources other than this one...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/

That's also where I get updates and commentary online. Before it was bought out by ESPN, it was known as cricinfo.com.

However, we have the radio commentary on a couple of stations Down Under. The TV coverage here comes through cable/satellite with Fox Sports for the NZ vs Aust ODI and tests. Channel 9, a commercial station, covers it when played in Aust (ODI, T20 and Tests).

Oz

 

[Thursday]

Neither Muslim nor American culture is monolithic. There are many Muslim cultures and many American cultures. Some have a greater number of shared values and customs and others a smaller number. All Muslims are also individuals and not clones of everyone else in the same environment. They can also change beliefs and values for better or worse.

Islam means submission.

American values include individual liberty.(for now)

Of course there is diversity within all large groups, but that is irrelevant. When discussing large groups one must resort to majority opinions and practices as opposed to the exceptions or the discussion is meaningless.

 

[redleghunter]

I understand. Yet some of our most horrible laws, such as those keeping people enslaved, didn't begin to change until they were challenged.

I don't see the correlation of current immigration laws and slavery. The fact is both parties are breaking the current laws. Nations must uphold their sovereignty and do so by enforcing the law.

There are probably some folks here on CF coming out of college or HS looking for decent paying jobs to make ends meet and maybe start a family. If we let corporate America continue to import labor to side step higher salaries for Americans, we will have a lot of young people out of work.

Add to that the jobs exported and supported by both major parties.

 

[redleghunter]

That's also where I get updates and commentary online. Before it was bought out by ESPN, it was known as cricinfo.com.

However, we have the radio commentary on a couple of stations Down Under. The TV coverage here comes through cable/satellite with Fox Sports for the NZ vs Aust ODI and tests. Channel 9, a commercial station, covers it when played in Aust (ODI, T20 and Tests).

Oz

The MLB hosts a couple of spring training games in Australia. There way of scouting out your better Cricket players.

 

[BrianJK]

I don't see the correlation of current immigration laws and slavery. The fact is both parties are breaking the current laws. Nations must uphold their sovereignty and do so by enforcing the law.

There are probably some folks here on CF coming out of college or HS looking for decent paying jobs to make ends meet and maybe start a family. If we let corporate America continue to import labor to side step higher salaries for Americans, we will have a lot of young people out of work.

Add to that the jobs exported and supported by both major parties.

The correlation is that strict immigration restrictions and legal slavery are both laws which I find wrong. Conservatives tried to vilify abolitionists and those who tried to help people escape slavery, very illegally. Yet ultimately they triumphed.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The correlation is that strict immigration restrictions and legal slavery are both laws which I find wrong. Conservatives tried to vilify abolitionists and those who tried to help people escape slavery, very illegally. Yet ultimately they triumphed.

Actually, there are more slaves today than there ever have been.

 

[OzSpen]

The MLB hosts a couple of spring training games in Australia. There way of scouting out your better Cricket players.

There should be a better way to check out our better cricket players - go to one day international games (ODI), T20 games, and test cricket. The first test against NZ starts in Basin Reserve, Wellington NZ tomorrow, 12 Feb.

Oz

 

[BrianJK]

Actually, there are more slaves today than there ever have been.

What does that have to do with the former illegality of rescuing slavery victims?

 

[redleghunter]

The correlation is that strict immigration restrictions and legal slavery are both laws which I find wrong. Conservatives tried to vilify abolitionists and those who tried to help people escape slavery, very illegally. Yet ultimately they triumphed.

Your correlation deals with the fugitive laws of American slavery?

Ok I can see the logic trail there.

To support the logic and link it to the Abolitionist would mean you support open borders. Meaning any one who can get to the US should stay. Which means no immigration laws at all.

Is this accurate?

 

[redleghunter]

There should be a better way to check out our better cricket players - go to one day international games (ODI), T20 games, and test cricket. The first test against NZ starts in Basin Reserve, Wellington NZ tomorrow, 12 Feb.

Oz

I'm sure they show for such events. I believe the ultimate motive is for MLB to get their hooks in Australia setting up pro team leagues to have another talent pool.

 

[BrianJK]

Your correlation deals with the fugitive laws of American slavery?

Ok I can see the logic trail there.

To support the logic and link it to the Abolitionist would mean you support open borders. Meaning any one who can get to the US should stay. Which means no immigration laws at all.

Is this accurate?

Well, more toward that end than the one we have now, for sure. I'm for a return to Ellis Island, when the waiting period was measured in days vice years.

I'm fine with background checks and physicals, but I love that we're a country made up of people who fled other countries. I just hate that we think that should cease.

 

[smaneck]

Good question. I hear talking heads say "Western interests" need protection.
Western interests is shorthand for corporate profits.

Or is it shorthand for WASP (white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant)?

 

[redleghunter]

Well, more toward that end than the one we have now, for sure. I'm for a return to Ellis Island, when the waiting period was measured in days vice years.

I'm fine with background checks and physicals, but I love that we're a country made up of people who fled other countries. I just hate that we think that should cease.

Ellis Island fed a need for US economy. There were ample manufacturing jobs back then, loads of construction projects which the European migrants had skills for.

For the shoe to fit today we would be taking in engineers, IT folks and other high tech fields. We are taking in migrants from all points in the world filling those industries legally.

Which causes some strife with American college grads.

Yes there are some low skill service economy jobs for the lesser skilled immigrants but there are already millions of migrants here illegally filling those jobs "unofficially."

That seems to be our main issue. Look at Germany. Good intentions yet a paucity of jobs for the flood they took in.

That's why we have laws.

 

[BrianJK]

Ellis Island fed a need for US economy. There were ample manufacturing jobs back then, loads of construction projects which the European migrants had skills for.

For the shoe to fit today we would be taking in engineers, IT folks and other high tech fields. We are taking in migrants from all points in the world filling those industries legally.

Which causes some strife with American college grads.

Yes there are some low skill service economy jobs for the lesser skilled immigrants but there are already millions of migrants here illegally filling those jobs "unofficially."

That seems to be our main issue. Look at Germany. Good intentions yet a paucity of jobs for the flood they took in.

That's why we have laws.

Those unskilled jobs are filled by immigrants, even if they might have broken a law. There are plenty of working Americans who have broken a law. I have sped in my car. When I was younger, I downloaded music without paying for it. I still have a job!

 

[smaneck]

Islam means submission.

Scott Peck wrote the following in his People of the Lie:

"Malignant narcissism is characterized by an unsubmitted will. All adults who are mentally healthy submit themselves one way or another to something higher than themselves, be it God or truth or love or some ideal. . . . Not so the evil, however. In the conflict between their guilt and their will, it is the guilt which must go and the will that must win." (p.78)
Ultimately as Peck points out, "There are only two states of being: submission to God and goodness or the refusal to submit to anything beyond one's own will."

American values include individual liberty.(for now)

And Muslim values stress human dignity.

When discussing large groups one must resort to majority opinions and practices as opposed to the exceptions or the discussion is meaningless.

And you realize ISIS is not in the majority?

You probably don't.

 

[smaneck]

Ellis Island fed a need for US economy. There were ample manufacturing jobs back then, loads of construction projects which the European migrants had skills for.

We have a similar need today. While the Millennial generation is huge (thanks largely to immigration) it is not large enough to support or even fill the jobs of all of us retiring baby boomers. It is immigration which will largely save Social Security, for instance.

 

[redleghunter]

Those unskilled jobs are filled by immigrants, even if they might have broken a law. There are plenty of working Americans who have broken a law. I have sped in my car. When I was younger, I downloaded music without paying for it. I still have a job!

Yes but by our Constitution and laws you are a citizen.

We were taking in tens of thousands of Irish, Italians, Germans and Poles during the Civil War because they needed more hands to hold muskets.

My point is immigration has always been targeted to fuel and grow our economy.

If we want to take in more than we can absorb, we only need to look to Germany.

If your intent is we make the US a giant refugee camp of unemployed people and their families dependent on local, state and federal agencies, with a quick path to citizenship, then you have made to logical change of political party.

 

[redleghunter]

We have a similar need today. While the Millennial generation is huge (thanks largely to immigration) it is not large enough to support or even fill the jobs of all of us retiring baby boomers. It is immigration which will largely save Social Security, for instance.

That's if new immigrants are working. We are not a low skill or semi skilled economy. We are mostly a tech economy.

The only other option is for the Fed gov to turn over their land glut and offer plots of land for farms and ranches.

 

[BrianJK]

Yes but by our Constitution and laws you are a citizen.

We were taking in tens of thousands of Irish, Italians, Germans and Poles during the Civil War because they needed more hands to hold muskets.

My point is immigration has always been targeted to fuel and grow our economy.

If we want to take in more than we can absorb, we only need to look to Germany.

If your intent is we make the US a giant refugee camp of unemployed people and their families dependent on local, state and federal agencies, with a quick path to citizenship, then you have made to logical change of political party.

My intent is to treat people, most especially those who have been here, no matter where they born, and lived here for years, as people rather than living violations. I can appreciate someone wanting to limit immigration, even if I don't agree with the limits they set. What I can't appreciate is people trying to deport peaceful people who have been making an honest living (regardless of the technicality of their entry) and especially the children they brought with them.