Why has America stopped winning wars?

[fizzygiraffe]

I suggest you try to actually discern what you read. The phrase "prior to the war Stalin was an American Progressive darling" means Stalin was held in great esteem by American Progressives, not that Stalin was an American anything.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

..

 

[Ana the Ist]

This was probably the same question that they had for the Roman Empire during the 300-400's.

Like every great empire, their power and sense of invincibility doesn't last forever.

Our military strength is certainly on a downward trajectory. I just wish it wasn't because of our choosing it to be so.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[Michael]

I don't think you guys had much of a choice. A combination of Bill Clinton's NAFTA/GATT policies that ended up with USA's factories getting outsourced, George Bush's two insanely expensive wars and Barack Obama's failed attempts at fixing the economy left you guys broke and unable to support such a massive military budget.

No economy, no military.

Ding, ding, ding! Give the man a cookie.

 

[PatrickT]

Wars are never won. War is always the total failure of humanism. When a war breaks out you have already lost

 

[classicalhero]

I thought America won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[Michael]

Just be sure it doesn't have any raisins on it.

 

[mindlight]

No, Vietnam was not a setback of the Cold War, Vietnam was a US victory in the Cold War. It did what it was intended to do in the big geopolitical strategy of the US, which was to stop Soviet incursion into the Third World. As a direct result of Vietnam, for instance, the Soviets stopped their military support of North Korea.

Not true- Cam Ranh Bay naval base! Also the Soviet Union fought many proxy wars in Africa using Cubans after Vietnam.

I guess we will continue to disagree about that, but there is no victory until you can stand a 19-year-old with a rifle on the ground without opposition. That never happened in Iraq. There was never a day that the US was not shooting at or being shot at by Iraqis. There was never a time that 19-year-old with his rifle could leave the green zone without backup.

Not sure that was a correct definition of victory in a country where no 19 year has been able to walk the streets without fear of death for 30 years. If anything you reduced the death rate while you were there. Millions died before you came and now IS have raised the rate of killing again.

 

[mindlight]

Because they are not our wars to win. God is obviously not on our side.

God was on Americas side in the war against The Kaiser, Hitler, the evil empire of Communism. Why would he not be on your side in a fight against evil Islamic extremism. The question is whether you have the heart to remain on Gods side surely.

Many Americans seem to think that comfy isolationism is an alternate option. But American tourists still have to fight Islamic extremists on European trains and 911 on American soil is a far from distant memory to many.

 

[mindlight]

Staying neutral was a perfectly viable option.

In the long run isolationism was not a viable option. Americas intervention was right cause it massively reduced the casualties that would have otherwise occurred in Russia and China especially. Without it the world would have been divided up by totalitarian empires and the damage might have taken centuries to resolve. The saving of Jews and the establishment of the state of Israel would not have occurred without American intervention. The role America played after the war with Marshall Aid helped prevent a new dark ages in Europe.

“You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield.” Colonel Tu thought about that for a minute, then replied: “That may be so. But it is also irrelevant.”

Richard Halloran "Strategic Communication"

The United States is a cushy consumer society. That's why American power in the international scene is fading. It's not going to change until the United States declines to the point that Americans start losing creature comforts, and that could be a while.

That is the key question. Why do we fight , is what we are fighting for worth it. Vietnam was a bad war cause the North Vietnamese had a better answer to the question. A country that no longer has the will to fight for what matters and make sacrifices for those it loves has begun to decline.

 

[cow451]

I thought America won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Technically, they aren't wars. They are "Operations". The last declared war was WWII. The fact that we do not require a declaration of war up front is part of the reason we get into some of these unwinnable conflicts.

 

[cow451]

That is the key question. Why do we fight , is what we are fighting for worth it. Vietnam was a bad war cause the North Vietnamese had a better answer to the question. A country that no longer has the will to fight for what matters and make sacrifices for those it loves has begun to decline.

As you-- and not most folks-- likely know is that Vietnam was supposed to have an election after the French defeat:

July 21, 1954 - The Geneva Accords divide Vietnam in half at the 17th parallel, with Ho Chi Minh's Communists ceded the North, while Bao Dai's regime is granted the South. The accords also provide for elections to be held in all of Vietnam within two years to reunify the country. The U.S. opposes the unifying elections, fearing a likely victory by Ho Chi Minh.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I thought America won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Look at what's going on in Iraq right now. If that's victory, what would defeat have been?

 

[bhsmte]

Technically, they aren't wars. They are "Operations". The last declared war was WWII. The fact that we do not require a declaration of war up front is part of the reason we get into some of these unwinnable conflicts.

Correct.

Furthermore, looking at the wars we won (WW1 and WW2), how many civilians were killed?

If you want to win an all out war, civilians are going to be killed and in large numbers.

 

[RDKirk]

Not true- Cam Ranh Bay naval base! Also the Soviet Union fought many proxy wars in Africa using Cubans after Vietnam.

Actually, no, that was the Cubans acting on their own--the Soviets had stopped supporting them as well by then.

Not sure that was a correct definition of victory in a country where no 19 year has been able to walk the streets without fear of death for 30 years. If anything you reduced the death rate while you were there. Millions died before you came and now IS have raised the rate of killing again.

No, under Saddam things were controlled--he was the only one doing the killing. Moreover, it was amply predicted by both the DoD and the State Department in the early 90s that "Iraq after Saddam" would devolve to precisely what it is. That's one of the reasons the elder Bush did not pursue further war with Iraq after pushing them out of Kuwait.

 

[Armoured]

Why is the United States unable to win on the battlefield? It’s certainly not for lack of power. From 1846 to 1945, the United States had a minuscule peacetime army but won almost every major campaign. After World War II, Washington constructed the most expensive military machine that ever existed and endured seven decades of martial frustration.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/america-win-loss-iraq-afghanistan/394559/
It a very interesting article and with it, seems that it looks like Iraq and Afghanistan will turn into another defeat like Vietnam.

Because America hasn't fought a conventional standing army in a completely openly declared "hot" war since the end of World War II (or arguably Korea).

America hasn't "won" any of the wars since then because, essentially, she hasn't been involved in any conflict where there was any possible state of unambiguous victory. [/thread]

 

[Armoured]

looking at the wars we won (WW1...)...

"We".

Australia won the First World War. Sure America eventually helped a bit toward the end, but we'd effectively broken the back of the Central Powers by then, at that point it was really all over bar the shouting.

 

[bhsmte]

"We".

Australia won the First World War. Sure America eventually helped a bit toward the end, but we'd effectively broken the back of the Central Powers by then, at that point it was really all over bar the shouting.

Correct.