Why has America stopped winning wars?

[dude99]

Why is the United States unable to win on the battlefield? It’s certainly not for lack of power. From 1846 to 1945, the United States had a minuscule peacetime army but won almost every major campaign. After World War II, Washington constructed the most expensive military machine that ever existed and endured seven decades of martial frustration.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/america-win-loss-iraq-afghanistan/394559/
It a very interesting article and with it, seems that it looks like Iraq and Afghanistan will turn into another defeat like Vietnam.

 

[Michael]

Oh come now, we successfully kicked the Cubans out of Grenada!

We would have needed to nuke China to have won in Korea, and used nukes again in Vietnam to win that war. Our first clue to not even get involved in Vietnam should have been watching what the French went through in Vietnam. Apparently an egotistical need to "win" hasn't been worth Armageddon. As it relates to Afghanistan and Iraq, you can thank the pitiful and inept political planning by Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney for those two fiascoes. Based on what happened to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, any President/Vice President with a brain in their head would have surrounded Tora Bora, gotten Bin Laden 10 years sooner, and gotten the heck out of Afghanistan immediately. That wouldn't have worked for Bush because he needed an excuse to settle a family vendetta in Iraq, and if Bin Laden had been dead already, it would have been a tougher sell.

We had no business even going into Iraq, and we have no business trying to police the entire planet. As soon as we took over Baghdad, Bush immediately dismantled the entire police and military infrastructure of Iraq, another example of idiotic planning by politicians. Unlike in WW2, no real effort even went into planning what would happen after we "won" in Iraq. You can thank Bush and Cheney for ISIS. They tried to tinker with the Sunni/Shia power structure in Iraq, and they turned it into a huge fiasco. Trillions of wasted dollars, all to settle a family vendetta. Why on Earth would anyone elect another Republican President after their horrific track record?

 

[dude99]

Oh come now, we successfully kicked the Cubans out of Grenada!

We would have needed to nuke China to have won in Korea, and used nukes again in Vietnam to win that war. Our first clue to not even get involved in Vietnam should have been watching what the French went through in Vietnam. Apparently an egotistical need to "win" hasn't been worth Armageddon. As it relates to Afghanistan and Iraq, you can thank the pitiful and inept political planning by Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney for those two fiascoes. Based on what happened to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, any President/Vice President with a brain in their head would have surrounded Tora Bora, gotten Bin Laden 10 years sooner, and gotten the heck out of Afghanistan immediately. That wouldn't have worked for Bush because he needed an excuse to settle a family vendetta in Iraq, and if Bin Laden had been dead already, it would have been a tougher sell.

We had no business even going into Iraq, and we have no business trying to police the entire planet. As soon as we took over Baghdad, Bush immediately dismantled the entire police and military infrastructure of Iraq, another example of idiotic planning by politicians. Unlike in WW2, no real effort even went into planning what would happen after we "won" in Iraq. You can thank Bush and Cheney for ISIS. They tried to tinker with the Sunni/Shia power structure in Iraq, and they turned it into a huge fiasco. Trillions of wasted dollars, all to settle a family vendetta. Why on Earth would anyone elect another Republican President after their horrific track record?

What is also worth a mention is Libya. A few years ago Libya had the highest living standards in Africa with improving relations with the US and the west but largely due to US and foreign intervention it a hotbed of extremist activity. Also the US administration is funding and supporting extremist rebels in Syria. Hey the Assad secular government is tame compared to the groups the US is funding in Syria apart from the Kurds. Also the US has not condemned the bombing of the Kurds who are fighting against the ISIS by Nato member Turkey. Turkey is much more focused on attacking the Kurds who are the main force fighting against ISIS than fighting against ISIS. Hey the Kurds have been the biggest force of fighting against ISIS and so far the US has not disapproved on Turkey attacking the Kurds.

I opposed the war in Iraq prior to the conflict as I knew the situation will be worse eventually there.

I am not American but I do see a lot of American foreign policy flawed.

They are not the world policeman and so much has gone wrong with US foreign policy in the last 60 years.

Anyway the 1980's and early 1990's American Afghanistan policy was flawed and today we are suffering from the consequences. Sadly today the US is making the similar mistakes in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We don't fight wars anymore...we "play war". The end of WW2 introduced this notion of civilized warfare where you don't engage in total warfare anymore.

We basically agreed to rules of warfare that prevent victory...and ironically prolong war.

 

[Michael]

What is also worth a mention is Libya. A few years ago Libya had the highest living standards in Africa with improving relations with the US and the west but largely due to US and foreign intervention it a hotbed of extremist activity. Also the US administration is funding and supporting extremist rebels in Syria. Hey the Assad secular government is tame compared to the groups the US is funding in Syria apart from the Kurds. Also the US has not condemned the bombing of the Kurds who are fighting against the ISIS by Nato member Turkey. Turkey is much more focused on attacking the Kurds who are the main force fighting against ISIS than fighting against ISIS. Hey the Kurds have been the biggest force of fighting against ISIS and so far the US has not disapproved on Turkey attacking the Kurds.

I opposed the war in Iraq prior to the conflict as I knew the situation will be worse eventually there.

I am not American but I do see a lot of American foreign policy flawed.

They are not the world policeman and so much has gone wrong with US foreign policy in the last 60 years.

Anyway the 1980's and early 1990's American Afghanistan policy was flawed and today we are suffering from the consequences. Sadly today the US is making the similar mistakes in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

IMO Bernie Sanders is the only credible candidate in this election with respect to war. He's consistently opposed it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

IMO Bernie Sanders is the only credible candidate in this election with respect to war. He's consistently opposed it.

Balance is a better approach to that topic. You don't want someone who's "for it at all costs" like a Bush 2...that can cause issues. on the flip side...a person who's "against it at all costs" poses some issues as well. For example, see USS Cole

 

[ThatRobGuy]

We don't fight wars anymore...we "play war". The end of WW2 introduced this notion of civilized warfare where you don't engage in total warfare anymore.

We basically agreed to rules of warfare that prevent victory...and ironically prolong war.

Correct...and there are some folks who make a lot more money by the war being sustained rather than by winning.

Logistically/Technologically/Manpower speaking...we could win just about any war really quickly if we threw the rules of engagement out the window.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

"A few years ago Libya had the highest living standards in Africa..."

Just how is the standard of living measured in an oppressive authoritarian regime?

Inspector: “How is your standard of living?”

Oppressed citizen: “Well, I wasn’t executed, imprisoned or tortured today.”

Inspector: “Then I will put excellent.”

 

[Michael]

"A few years ago Libya had the highest living standards in Africa..."

Just how is the standard of living measured in an oppressive authoritarian regime?

Here's how you measure it:

 

[Desk trauma]

Why is the United States unable to win on the battlefield?

Because we have entangled our selves in conflicts with objectives that are unattainable.

 

[Michael]

Balance is a better approach to that topic. You don't want someone who's "for it at all costs" like a Bush 2...that can cause issues. on the flip side...a person who's "against it at all costs" poses some issues as well. For example, see USS Cole

Let's face some cold hard facts. We haven't done the Middle East any favors by trying to police the planet. We've destroyed their infrastructure and the social structure. We've destroyed any sense of a stable government in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria and in Lebannon. We've given rise to ISIS, and we've walked away from the genocide that now goes on there like utter cowards. I'll take Bernie every single time. We totally and completely suck at policing the planet.

 

[wing2000]

How do you define winning?

Before taking any military actions, clear objectives need to be stated. In the Gulf War, there was a clear objective:
Remove the Iraqi military from Kuwait.

In 2002, the military was ordered to disband the Iraqi government. They did so. Thereafter, there was never any clear military objective. Combat units were sitting in Baghdad with no orders or plan from that moment forward. There was no plan to govern....and in any case the US Military should NEVER be expected to govern another country.

We need to return to the Powell/Weinberger Doctrine:

1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
7. Is the action supported by the American people?
8. Do we have genuine broad international support?[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_Doctrine

In Iraq, conditions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8 were all violated.

 

[Blank Stair]

World War II was the last war America was involved in after a Congressional declaration.

All else since then make for profit for special interests. So to answer your question, America hasn't lost a declared war yet.

Why is the United States unable to win on the battlefield? It’s certainly not for lack of power. From 1846 to 1945, the United States had a minuscule peacetime army but won almost every major campaign. After World War II, Washington constructed the most expensive military machine that ever existed and endured seven decades of martial frustration.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/america-win-loss-iraq-afghanistan/394559/
It a very interesting article and with it, seems that it looks like Iraq and Afghanistan will turn into another defeat like Vietnam.

 

[TheBarrd]

WAR
uh
what is it good for?

Absolutely nuthin!

 

[Blank Stair]

WAR
uh
what is it good for?

Absolutely nuthin!

Great song, inaccurate lyric.
The American war of independence, (Revolutionary War), helped to give birth to the country we live in today.
WW1 benefited the American economy enormously in matters of our natural resources and industry and overcoming Germany's market with our own exports.

Just a cople of examples.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Here's how you measure it:

Oh propaganda video.


“In 1951 Libya was a poor nation”… yep, sure was, and in 1959 they discovered oil, under King Idris.


“Gaddafi kept his promise, his father died before he was housed.” Yes, because his father was a Nomadic Bedouin and refused to give up that lifestyle.


“All loans are interest free 0% by law” yes Islamic law forbids interest, just don’t try doing this in Seattle, Washington.


Nice piece of socialist pro Libyan propaganda there, lots of good anti Jew stuff too.

 

[Blank Stair]

Oh propaganda video.


“In 1951 Libya was a poor nation”… yep, sure was, and in 1959 they discovered oil, under King Idris.


“Gaddafi kept his promise, his father died before he was housed.” Yes, because his father was a Nomadic Bedouin and refused to give up that lifestyle.


“All loans are interest free 0% by law” yes Islamic law forbids interest, just don’t try doing this in Seattle, Washington.


Nice piece of socialist pro Libyan propaganda there, lots of good anti Jew stuff too.

The propaganda here though is more serious given the contemporary atmosphere as pertains to the image Muslim community has in America now.
Federal banking laws can't be amended to give special treatment to one religious class. Imagine the ramifications were it to happen. How many people would convert to Islam just to take advantage? Oh, at least one.

Whereas what is hardly mentioned in these types of fear track reporting, especially when a politician thinks they'll gain points with a particular community to which they pander while lying at the same time, is that in the Muslim community nation wide, world wide, there is a thing known as Sharia banking! And while it is seemingly for Muslims only, non's can also participate. Though not in such good graces as do the Muslims who borrow.

So Muslims do not need infidel banks to make special exception for their borrowing needs. They are flush already with the opportunity in their own system of merit, commerce, and banking.

 

[TheBarrd]

Great song, inaccurate lyric.
The American war of independence, (Revolutionary War), helped to give birth to the country we live in today.
WW1 benefited the American economy enormously in matters of our natural resources and industry and overcoming Germany's market with our own exports.

Just a cople of examples.

True enough.
However, none of that does much to ease the grief of the mother whose son is killed in the war, I'm afraid.
Some wars are worth being fought. Others, not so much.
I will never forget my own Dad, who was a decorated WWII (the big one) hero. He was shot down over Alsace Lorraine...evidently a strip of disputed territory between France and Germany. Behind enemy lines and injured, he not only managed to evade capture, but he was able to free a small group of POWs, and together, they made it back to France.
Flash forward to the sixties...the same man, brave WWII flying ace, now with two sons of his own, swears mightily that, should this bs in Viet Nam go on and his sons be in danger of the draft, he will personally move his entire family into Canada himself. Fortunately, it didn't come to that.

However, he knew, intimately, the horrors of war. "They come back," he once told me. He was referring to the men he had killed in that mad attempt to get to French soil. "They come back at night, and sometimes they bring women with them." Now, I was born two years after the war was over, and I was in my teens by this time. "Sometimes they have children clinging to their skirts," he went on. He was never able to put the horror of it behind him, to his dying day.
Even now, some fifteen years after his death, I can still hear him whispering, "They come back"....

 

[Blank Stair]

I have no argument with anything a veteran hero suffers in the aftermath of war or service conflict.
When I see someone who I know is military, uniforms that they're wearing, I thank them for their service. Same as I do when I see police. And firefighters wearing their company tee shirts.

Thank you for your service.

I thank them for believing our people, our nation, with all its perks, beauty, and its flaws, is worth fighting for. And dying for. And suffering all that comes after that they never imagined they'd signed up for.

God eternally bless and watch over all those who put themselves between danger and us.
Thank you all wherever you are. And eternally, from the bottom of my heart.

 

[TheBarrd]

I have no argument with anything a veteran hero suffers in the aftermath of war or service conflict.
When I see someone who I know is military, uniforms that they're wearing, I thank them for their service. Same as I do when I see police. And firefighters wearing their company tee shirts.

Thank you for your service.

I thank them for believing our people, our nation, with all its perks, beauty, and its flaws, is worth fighting for. And dying for. And suffering all that comes after that they never imagined they'd signed up for.

God eternally bless and watch over all those who put themselves between danger and us.
Thank you all wherever you are. And eternally, from the bottom of my heart.

Don't get me wrong, Blank Stair...I am inordinately proud of my war hero Dad. He was a great man, and a wonderful Daddy.
But if he were here right now, he'd agree with me...war is NEVER a good thing.
Yes, he made it through tremendous odds, and lived to be my Dad.
How many other men did not?

In his name, I accept your thanks...
But in his name I also add...let's stop getting involved in these "wars" that are none of our business, getting our children killed in wars that we can't...or won't win.