Why Do You Trust Muhammad?

[laconicstudent]

Isn't it under Christianity?

The forum rules don't allow a proper answer on that, as you well know.


And their polygamy is based on a book that only they use, so using their polygamy to criticize anyone else is nonsensical.

So tell you friend

You can tell him yourself.

not to use other sects to insult Islam.
Shiahs can never be Muslim even if they claim so because whoever rejects Prophet Muhammad pbuh are considered kuffr as well.

Just to point out that Shia Islam, the second largest Muslim denomination is considerably more mainstream and orthodox to Islam then LDS is to Christianity. So your comparison fails on that count as well.

 

[newborn2007]

I would ask that instead of flaming me as being "childish" and demanding that I not reply if my response doesn't fit your arbitrary standards that you treat me with more respect. Thanks.

In any event, you seem to be operating on the assumption that there would ever be conflict within the Trinity, and you then ask whether Jesus could do something completely in absence of the Holy Spirit and God the Father, which simply does not compute in Trinitarian theology.

The simple answer is,even some Christians reject the Trinity .it is not gonna make any difference whether I accept or not

Again you didn't respond on what I posted but eventually you deviated and force me to accept.

Jesus pbuh cannot do anything on his own as he has claim himself and i don't need to provide any proofs as it is above

I can never believe in trinity as you and others have failed to explain.even the priest cannot explain

and Jesus pbuh didn't have split identity

It is either you bring proof from your scripture that he can do everything on his own or you withdraw this discussion.

I shall withdraw because this discussion is leading no where without proofs from the scripture


have a great day and if my post sounds a bit harsh,I apologize.Other than that,I didn't manupulate any of your scripture.I only stated what is written there.

It is individual's choice to accept or reject
Peace

 

[laconicstudent]

Jesus pbuh cannot do anything on his own as he has claim himself and i don't need to provide any proofs as it is above

Jesus would never do anything "on his own" in any event, so the point is moot.

I can never believe in trinity as you and others have failed to explain.even the priest cannot explain

Why on Earth would God be comprehensible to mere mortals. Can ants comprehend humans? And yet the ants don't deny we exist. (of course they don't have the neural capacity to do so, but that is beside the point)

and Jesus pbuh didn't have split identity

Of course not. God the Son is only one part of the Trinity.

It is either you bring proof from your scripture that he can do everything on his own or you withdraw this discussion.

Why should I have to? Because you say so? Nah, I don't think so.

have a great day and if my post sounds a bit harsh,I apologize.Other than that,I didn't manupulate any of your scripture.I only stated what is written there.

As did I.

It is individual's choice to accept or reject
Peace

Indeed.

Revelation 22:12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."​

John 8.54-59

54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[Montalban]

perhaps you are not smart enough to see what is written there.let me help you

[Matthew 5:27-29] Jesus says "You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery. But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Which is nothing about lowering one's gaze. I can look a woman in the eye and talk to her without believing she's a sex object.

Islam actually says though that a woman must cover herself up because of the effect she will have on a man.

Islam actually says that men have a higer sex drive than women.

Christianity does not.

are you a Jewish?

Neither a Jewish, nor a Jew am I

Well you can personally pm meI shall show you what is corrupted.by the way,there are already some who have created threads on that issue.

I've asked many Moslems to show me a Bible with all the corrupted verses highlighted

 

[Montalban]

The simple answer is,even some Christians reject the Trinity .it is not gonna make any difference whether I accept or not

It makes no difference to this dicussion thread either
a) what Christians accept the Trinity
or
b) whether you accept anything

This thread is about the founder of Islam

Again you didn't respond on what I posted but eventually you deviated and force me to accept.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what slavery has to do with me

Jesus cannot do anything on his own as he has claim himself and i don't need to provide any proofs as it is above

Great. You just post your opinions and we'll just accept that then

I can never believe in trinity as you and others have failed to explain.even the priest cannot explain

What's this got to do with Muhammad?

and Jesus pbuh didn't have split identity

You are correct. What's this got to do with Muhammad?

It is either you bring proof from your scripture that he can do everything on his own or you withdraw this discussion.

What's this got to do with Muhammad?

I shall withdraw because this discussion is leading no where without proofs from the scripture

You're more than welcome to discuss Muhammad, though

 

[Montalban]

Can ants comprehend humans? And yet the ants don't deny we exist.

Funny you should raise that, because in Islam they believe that Solomon could talk to ants.

Koran 027.018 AL-NAML (THE ANT, THE ANTS)
YUSUFALI: At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
PICKTHAL: Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving.
SHAKIR: Until when they came to the valley of the Naml, a Namlite said: O Naml! enter your houses, (that) Sulaiman and his hosts may not crush you while they do not know.




CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

 

[b&wpac4]

At the heart of nearly every religion is fear and terror. Especially the 3 Abrahamic traditions. Get over yourselves already. What makes one security blanket any better than another? They all cover your head when the big bad monster in the closet makes a thump. Does it matter what color ut is?

Could you please let me know what it is that I fear or am terrorized by? I know I don't go to synagogue every week, maybe I missed that meeting.

 

[Livindesert]

Funny you should raise that, because in Islam they believe that Solomon could talk to ants.

Koran 027.018 AL-NAML (THE ANT, THE ANTS)
YUSUFALI: At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
PICKTHAL: Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving.
SHAKIR: Until when they came to the valley of the Naml, a Namlite said: O Naml! enter your houses, (that) Sulaiman and his hosts may not crush you while they do not know.




CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

Luke 19:39-40 (New International Version)



39Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!" 40"I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."


This shows your beliefs are no different than the Muslims here with rocks talking to people.

 

[Livindesert]

The simple answer is,even some Christians reject the Trinity .it is not gonna make any difference whether I accept or not

Again you didn't respond on what I posted but eventually you deviated and force me to accept.

Jesus pbuh cannot do anything on his own as he has claim himself and i don't need to provide any proofs as it is above

I can never believe in trinity as you and others have failed to explain.even the priest cannot explain

and Jesus pbuh didn't have split identity

It is either you bring proof from your scripture that he can do everything on his own or you withdraw this discussion.

I shall withdraw because this discussion is leading no where without proofs from the scripture


have a great day and if my post sounds a bit harsh,I apologize.Other than that,I didn't manupulate any of your scripture.I only stated what is written there.

It is individual's choice to accept or reject
Peace

Very true the Father is greater than the son as the Bible says so the son relies on the Father as we all rely on him.

 

[Tinker Grey]

From the atheist perspective the irony of this statement is utterly awe inspiring.

This.

 

[IzzyPop]

more tu quoque

Not really. You called Islam 'the religion of fear and terror'. I was pointing out that since they are almost all built on the same fear and terror, singling out Islam for this is not fair.

 

[Erfan777]

newborn2007, no offence but you really need to get your knowledge about Christianity right before you jump into a deabate about it. Because there are things that you are saying that does not makes sense.

 

[Erfan777]

again, the tu quoque argument is drawn out

well explain this tu quoque argument then, whatever it means. Why would God allow such a thing? If this was done to your own country you would call this act the most evil thing, your children, wife, whole family along with your countrymen getting slaughtered...how would you feel?

 

[Livindesert]

Not really. You called Islam 'the religion of fear and terror'. I was pointing out that since they are almost all built on the same fear and terror, singling out Islam for this is not fair.

True

 

[Isambard]

From the atheist perspective the irony of this statement is utterly awe inspiring.

At the heart of nearly every religion is fear and terror. Especially the 3 Abrahamic traditions. Get over yourselves already. What makes one security blanket any better than another? They all cover your head when the big bad monster in the closet makes a thump. Does it matter what color ut is?

This.

 

[français]

The last time I checked, Muhammad performed miracles too.. such as the splitting of the moon. If I am correct, there are over 40 SAHIH(very authentic) Hadiths that state that Muhammad split the moon. Anyone who knows anything about the uloom-al-hadeeth(Sciences of the Hadiths) know that there is a rigorous process to authenticate a narration. This is contrary to Christianity that merely accepts 4 Gospels, which conflict in different areas. Add to that the fact that there are no independent reports that Jesus performed these miracles, and even if there are some, there are just as many for other Pagan-religions and other figures at that time that were deemed as being prophetic.

So if you are basing this belief that we shouldn't trust Muhammad because he didn't perform miracles, then you are by all means mistaking and misinformed on Islam.

For those who want to know why I trust Muhammad... I trust him because he was a man of reform, and a man of unity. Prior to Islam, the people of Arabia would often times bury female children because they didn't want females. Yet one of the first revelations that Muhammad recited condemned this violent act. Later, once Islam ruled Arabia, this inhumane practice came to a stop.

He also gave women basic rights, established property rights, preached the process of "innocent until guilty" in a court system, set up a way to verify claims in a court so that the innocent weren't blamed unjustly, and strongly enhanced privacy rights.

Now I am a homosexual, very liberal dude. Many of my practices are in direct contradiction to Islamic teachings. But I still love Islam and Muhammad because of all of the good in Islam.. The good certainly outweighs the bad, in my opinion.

I am in graduate school and will be receiving my Masters in Sociology. I have taken many classes which emphasize the religious prevalence of a society. And, I have learned that Islam really helped get Arabia out of a big mess, to put it simple.

I have also found that most people who have studied Islam or at least History with some emphasis on Islam, these people generally have a much more favorable view of Islam than those who just watch the news to get their "lesson" on Islam.

 

[anatolian]

...and 2) that he rode a horse to heaven in the middle of the night (no witnesses). How could anyone consider Muhammad believable?

Haven't you heard that what Abu-Bakr said when the non-muslim citizents of Mekkah asked about this event? "If He says it is true."

If you have a chance to read a siyer-the life story of the Prophet you can see that He was called Muhammed al-Ameen/the trustworthy Muhammed even before His prophetood.

When I read the hadiths I see the light that those words come from a trustworthy person. It is much more a feeling than a deterministic observation..

 

[Montalban]

Not really. You called Islam 'the religion of fear and terror'. I was pointing out that since they are almost all built on the same fear and terror, singling out Islam for this is not fair.

That is tu quoque

I would be forced to defend Christianity as not being a religion of terror FIRST - before I could address Islam.

That is tu quoque.

 

[Montalban]

The last time I checked, Muhammad performed miracles too.. such as the splitting of the moon. If I am correct, there are over 40 SAHIH(very authentic) Hadiths that state that Muhammad split the moon. Anyone who knows anything about the uloom-al-hadeeth(Sciences of the Hadiths) know that there is a rigorous process to authenticate a narration. This is contrary to Christianity that merely accepts 4 Gospels, which conflict in different areas.

Thank you for misrepresenting both Islamic texts and Christian texts in the one passage.

The 'science of Hadith' is not about proving that he split the moon, but about proving a line of transmission of what was reported.

Thus if ten people were there, and four people witnessed a 'miracle' and you have their testimony recorded and passed on, and you have a record of that record being passed down through every point till we have it today, then you have an 'authentic' hadith. That does not mean that the event took place.

Secondly we Christians don't just rely on 4 Gospels. Most Christians, through most of Christianity have not relied solely on 4 Gospels. Nor, solely on the Bible.

As an Orthodox we have a 2,000 year history of saints and they attest through the Holy Spirit to what happened. We are a living church, with continual revelation (not of new truths, but of 'the truth')

Add to that the fact that there are no independent reports that Jesus performed these miracles, and even if there are some, there are just as many for other Pagan-religions and other figures at that time that were deemed as being prophetic.

What did 'splitting the moon' do for mankind?

So if you are basing this belief that we shouldn't trust Muhammad because he didn't perform miracles, then you are by all means mistaking and misinformed on Islam.

There's a film called "The Message" approved of by a very renowned and old Islamic centre in Egypt. In that they have the only miracle that he produced was the Koran itself.

For those who want to know why I trust Muhammad... I trust him because he was a man of reform, and a man of unity. Prior to Islam, the people of Arabia would often times bury female children because they didn't want females. Yet one of the first revelations that Muhammad recited condemned this violent act. Later, once Islam ruled Arabia, this inhumane practice came to a stop.

That's 'cause he fancied younger girls. Like Aisha

He also gave women basic rights, established property rights, preached the process of "innocent until guilty" in a court system, set up a way to verify claims in a court so that the innocent weren't blamed unjustly, and strongly enhanced privacy rights.

That's a half-truth. Being given rights less than, and not equitable to men is what you left off.

Now I am a homosexual, very liberal dude. Many of my practices are in direct contradiction to Islamic teachings. But I still love Islam and Muhammad because of all of the good in Islam.. The good certainly outweighs the bad, in my opinion.

What bad? Aside from issues of homosexuality?

I am in graduate school and will be receiving my Masters in Sociology. I have taken many classes which emphasize the religious prevalence of a society. And, I have learned that Islam really helped get Arabia out of a big mess, to put it simple.

What mess?

You've been a long-standing apologist for Islam. If you think it's great that the Arabs were united so that they could pour out of the desert and enslave people, that's great.

 

[Montalban]

well explain this tu quoque argument then, whatever it means. Why would God allow such a thing? If this was done to your own country you would call this act the most evil thing, your children, wife, whole family along with your countrymen getting slaughtered...how would you feel?

This is a thread concerning Islamic matters.

It is something that should be able to be discussed on its own merits.

Islam doesn't have to be justified by its comparison to other religions does it?