Why do you think people find it so hard to walk away from the RCC?

[christseeker45]

Who saves? Christ or the Church? The Church is an aid to our salvation & supposed to be a light to a dark world.

It seems the Church. She says one can only get it in her, I heard that before.

 

[Michie]

It seems the Church. She says one can only get it in her, I heard that before.

No, Jesus Christ saves. The Church is an aid to help us get to heaven. The Catholic Church holds the fullness of faith that seems to make most miserable.

 

[christseeker45]

I wonder how many believe the Church holds "the fullness of truth" who are in her

 

[fhansen]

One thing I've noticed since converting is that people find it very difficult to walk away from Catholicism. I see more people stay that seem miserable & just go through the motions than leave. Or... trying to change the Church from the inside.

On the other hand, in my protestant days people left their Church all the time. Either in search of another Church that suited them or just a stay at home lone ranger Christian.

Why is that?

I don't know-except that there's a lot of heritage/cultural baggage in Catholicism. The Italian side of my family were Catholics since almost BC... OK, not quite. But I found it easy to leave as a late teen-and I never looked back until I returned-almost 25 years later!

 

[Michie]

I wonder how many believe the Church holds "the fullness of truth" who are in her

I'm not sure. There are more that disagree with something or another than those that are in full compliance in word & deed it seems.

 

[Michie]

I don't know-except that there's a lot of heritage/cultural baggage in Catholicism. The Italian side of my family were Catholics since almost BC... OK, not quite. But I found it easy to leave as a late teen-and I never looked back until I returned-almost 25 years later!

There is a lot of baggage in Catholicism it seems. I'm a convert & still wondering why God led me there. I personally think there is not enough emphasis on Scripture regardless of the missal excuse. Not enough effort with the Lord & a little too much effort with the p's & q's of the Church. It does tend to leave one a bit exhausted. It does not leave one very motivated for much else.

Note-
My attitude is rotten lately.

 

[ElisaMC]

I think the Catholic Church is a big tent, and inside that tent is a multi-ring circus.

You and I could go to the same Mass every week, but when we walked out how would we spend the rest of the week? Would we say the same prayers?
Probably not. I have an inordinate fondness for Liturgy of the Hours. Would we read the Bible the same way? Probably not. I am more of a Lectio person, and you might go for Steven Ray's studies (which I thought were stultifying).

I don't know what the Divine Mercy Chaplet is, and I don't think that one needs to say it to be Catholic. I would belong to different organizations, perhaps--choir, small church community. You might belong to sodalities.

When we went to the same Mass I would look at it as a eucharistic feast and you would look at it as a holy sacrifice.

But you know, it doesn't bother me, as long as you don't try to impose your vision on everyone else. I have found my spiritual nourishment within the big tent doing different things from you, or doing the same things with a different understanding and philosophy about them.

The beautiful thing about Catholicism is that you can make it your own--not somebody else's.

Fantine - EXCELLENT post!! So often we hear about the Catholic faith not being "scriptural" enough, or not this, or not that - everything that someone else believes that is "wrong" with the RCC..... In reality, it is all completely up to US! Which is the very beauty of being Catholic! Yes, some of us ARE interested in deep meditative prayer, belonging to organizations, giving our time, reading and studying scripture.. Catholocism gives us the FREEDOM to explore our faith, our lives, our world around us!! We make it our own, using the foundation of Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium - we allow the Spirit to guide us to where we need to be when we need to be there! I love your post - thank YOU!!!

 

[Fantine]

The main reason why I have never left Catholicism (after returning at the age of 32 or so) is because it is within the Catholic Church that I have experienced the presence of God. Sometimes those experiences occurred during things that happened within "the Church" but which some of you might not consider to be doctrinaire. Marriage encounters. Jesuit retreats. Retreats that might use techniques like centering prayer and things that have fallen into disfavor.

Within the Church I have experienced some unusual things. I attended a workshop run by nuns about Native American spirituality. I was interested because when I had lived in South Dakota I had many Native American friends. A nun walked around my body with a drum, beating the drum at about M=60 from head to toe on all four sides. No, I did not experience God then, but I have done a lot of things that aren't traditionally Catholic under Catholic auspices.

I have said before that one of my most meaningful experiences of God took place during my son's Confirmation. I was singing with the choir and we said the "Our Father" holding hands (which some of you look on with disfavor) and felt the presence of the Holy Spirit and asked God to heal my brother, my son's sponsor, who had MS. When he walked by after receiving Communion he started walking perfectly as soon as he passed the choir by, and went into remission for several years. Well, that's the biggest miracle I've ever experienced, and it happened in a Catholic Church. A nice, suburban, progressive one in Missouri. Not a conservative influence in sight (well, there was the young associate pastor I called the time traveler, but he wasn't there that night.)

I've had some powerful religious experiences in other churches, but not as many. I went to a Taize service at an Episcopal church an hour away. When I left to drive home, I couldn't turn on the radio. All I could do was sing the hymns we'd sung, very softly, while I drove...but I thought to myself, "The Catholics should be doing this. It started out Catholic." Or, "If I lived in a more normal place other than the Bible Belt, the Catholics would be doing this and I wouldn't have to drive 60 miles to an Episcopal Church to experience it."

 

[fhansen]

There is a lot of baggage in Catholicism it seems. I'm a convert & still wondering why God led me there. I personally think there is not enough emphasis on Scripture regardless of the missal excuse. Not enough effort with the Lord & a little too much effort with the p's & q's of the Church. It does tend to leave one a bit exhausted. It does not leave one very motivated for much else.

Note-
My attitude is rotten lately.

Yeah, but the reason I can't leave now is still completely different- the difference is now I love the Church!

 

[Fantine]

I should add that I think my God experiences in Catholicism happened independently of any of the structural or organizational aspects of the Church. I think that most of them could have happened anywhere in any Church--but I happened to be in the Catholic Church at the time and I have associated those many experiences with the faith communities I belonged to.

And when I am disappointed by my Church I remember that there is good amidst the bad.

Basically, those experiences have built up a huge repository of good will inside of me that allow me to overlook what I see as flaws.

 

[Michie]

Yeah, but the reason I can't leave now is still completely different- the difference is now I love the Church!

I'm glad. I'd love the Church more if I saw more joy in it & less fear.

 

[MikeK]

I'm glad. I'd love the Church more if I saw more joy in it & less fear.

You (and I, and every person) should try to focus more on what and who Od is, and less on what we percieve.

Whether God seems kind or mean or arbitrary or random or structure tired or inconsistent to our finite pea-brains matters not. We have been given the Truth, that He is all wise, all-knowing, all-loving, all-merciful and all-just. That we don't understand is our shortcoming, not His.


(not saying that you were stating otherwise, just saying...)

 

[Michie]

You (and I, and every person) should try to focus more on what and who Od is, and less on what we percieve.

Whether God seems kind or mean or arbitrary or random or structure tired or inconsistent to our finite pea-brains matters not. We have been given the Truth, that He is all wise, all-knowing, all-loving, all-merciful and all-just. That we don't understand is our shortcoming, not His.


(not saying that you were stating otherwise, just saying...)

It just seems like Catholics focus on a fear based God than a loving & merciful one. As if He is waiting for us to fail. Given all that is offered in our faith it seems like He is our biggest cheerleader. It really depresses me at times. This being one of them.

 

[MikeK]

It just seems like Catholics focus on a fear based God than a loving & merciful one. As if He is waiting for us to fail. Given all that is offered in our faith it seems like He is our biggest cheerleader. It really depresses me at times. This being one of them.

I'm sure that at some point you've read the Bible cover-to-cover. Sometimes, God just isn't as "nice" as we'd like Him to be.

There's rules, yo.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Because of hell.

This was one reason why I couldn't continue RCIA. There was this strong suggestion that those who join are there to stay, and that those who leave are putting their souls in the gravest of danger. It's as if there was no forgiveness for them. It felt more like a trap than a loving church.

If you live a life full of weakness and mortal sin, paralysing fear becomes an everyday thing.

You people must not sin mortally or something, if you're never afraid or guilty.

Wow. So very true.

 

[Michie]

I'm sure that at some point you've read the Bible cover-to-cover. Sometimes, God just isn't as "nice" as we'd like Him to be.

There's rules, yo.

Yes I'm aware of the rules yo.

But I think it still appears to be fear based with a lot of people within the RCC.

 

[christseeker45]

It just seems like Catholics focus on a fear based God than a loving & merciful one. As if He is waiting for us to fail. Given all that is offered in our faith it seems like He is our biggest cheerleader. It really depresses me at times. This being one of them.

It seems whereas in Catholic God is one of fear not joy, whereas in other Christian camps He is one of Joy and Peace.

 

[fhansen]

I'm glad. I'd love the Church more if I saw more joy in it & less fear.

If I was still focused on a fear-based faith I doubt I'd be Catholic-or anything else for that matter. I certainly wouldn't have bothered coming back. What I came to cherish about the CC are her teachings-and in them I find love to be at the core-more so than with any other church I can think of with the possible exception of the EOs and Methodists.

It may not always have been practiced or even taught that way, but at the heart of the Church and all through her Catechism, love is the basis-and I also happened to find this basis proclaimed well in the particular parish I attended. Either way, I no longer look left or right but straight ahead-and if Luther had done that he wouldn't have bothered inventing a new church. There was a lot more hellfire and damnation preached in the Protestant church I attended previously.

 

[Michie]

If I was still focused on a fear-based faith I doubt I'd be Catholic-or anything else for that matter. I certainly wouldn't have bothered coming back. What I came to cherish about the CC are her teachings-and in them I find love to be at the core-more so than with any other church I can think of with the possible exception of the EOs and Methodists.

It may not always have been practiced or even taught that way, but at the heart of the Church and all through her Catechism, love is the basis-and I also happened to find this basis proclaimed well in the particular parish I attended. Either way, I no longer look left or right but straight ahead-and if Luther had done that he wouldn't have bothered inventing a new church. There was a lot more hellfire and damnation preached in the Protestant church I attended previously.

I'm glad you posted. When I vent like this I need a boost.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Not brain washing, but conditioning.

Catholics who grew up in Pre-Vatican II days, were fed guilt far more than God's mercy and love.

Jim

I agree. When I was a kid the Nuns would often tell us about the damnation of Hell. They taught fear more than love.