Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[Super Kal]

and i have a bible verse that says otherwise...
the word "tartarus" is only used once in the entire New Testament, and that's in 2 Peter 2:4

"For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,"
this speaks of utterly nothing that the eternal torment doctrine teaches... this says that the angels that sinned are being kept in Tartarus, awaiting to be delivered to judgment... the verse suggests that tartarus is not the final resting place.
furthermore, later in this chapter, we read the following in 2 Peter 2:6
"and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah having turned to ashes, with an overthrow did condemn, an example to those about to be impious having set [them];"

not to mention Jude 1:6-7
6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

both 2 Peter and Jude both say the same thing, that Sodom and Gomorrah "suffered the vengeance of eternal fire" as the KJV puts it.
so this claim of yours, saying that Gehenna and Tartarus are the same, is unfounded.

now am i saying that a place of punishment does not exist? absolutely not. there is indeed a place where the wicked will go, and be punished... and the punishment is indeed eternal, but it is eternal to the length that it is needed to be.

 

[Senecharnix]

and i have a bible verse that says otherwise...
the word "tartarus" is only used once in the entire New Testament, and that's in 2 Peter 2:4

"For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,"
this speaks of utterly nothing that the eternal torment doctrine teaches... this says that the angels that sinned are being kept in Tartarus, awaiting to be delivered to judgment... the verse suggests that tartarus is not the final resting place.
furthermore, later in this chapter, we read the following in 2 Peter 2:6
"and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah having turned to ashes, with an overthrow did condemn, an example to those about to be impious having set [them];"

not to mention Jude 1:6-7
6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

both 2 Peter and Jude both say the same thing, that Sodom and Gomorrah "suffered the vengeance of eternal fire" as the KJV puts it.
so this claim of yours, saying that Gehenna and Tartarus are the same, is unfounded.

now am i saying that a place of punishment does not exist? absolutely not. there is indeed a place where the wicked will go, and be punished... and the punishment is indeed eternal, but it is eternal to the length that it is needed to be.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Of course, a laywer might demand, "Define everlasting punishment."

It could mean that those subjected to it will suffer forever and ever. But it could also mean that they might suffer a long time then cease to exist never to be resurrected. Or both solutions could apply. I opt for the latter definition....

 

[strangertoo]

The key words are "inspired by". There is nothing supernatural going on here.

Inspiration is beyond our understanding , men suddenly know things which had completely flummoxed them a second before ...read the autobiographies of 'great' men , many describe how it happens... something on their mind ,something which current 'theories' don't explain, cannot explain ... they go away to a favourite quiet place and just focus on being confounded by this but SEEKING the Truth... they are meditating , WITHOUT thought because their thought is DEFEATED ... they have pushed thoughts on current theories to the limit and NOT found any answer , PROVEN that they need something NEW [new to them, maybe to the world, not new to God] ... in effect they are humbly seeking before God as an unknowing little child with a wholly open defeated mind ...something God awaits in us all ... that is inspiration, to engage the power of God's truth by means of true humility before God [some put it in those terms others use other words, it matters not what words one uses as few fit anyway]

'supernatural' is an undefined concept , much that was 'supernatural' to cavemen is ow called 'natural' , but it has not changed what it is ... the spirit seems 'supernatural' to many today, but it will not be so in the future... so you see perhaps what a misleading idea this word conveys...?

Men are inspired to write what they THINK---

that is misleading too, inspiration actually requires men to 'meditate' [even if they don't call it 'meditation'] , it is a DIFFERENT brain state than thought [one can even measure physically the change to lower frequency brain waves] ... if one thinks DURING meditation [or even uses a mantra] then it limits or even destroys the meditation ... because meditation is the process of integration of the brain as one , no inner boundaries, no inhibition to delude one ... thought requires [dynamic] boundaries in the brain , so-called 'focus' ,which is selective blindness , NOT 'holistic' ...

just as you are inspired to write by God, and I am inspired to write by God.

thought is engaged separately from meditation [normally afterward] lest it should interfere [fundamentally, because it is a different way of using the same brain]

I write poetry by meditation, and know the fundamental frustration that words CANNOT capture the inspiration , it is not contained in thought, nor can it be ... thought is almost 'tied' to the physical, the 'familiar', the spirit is almost all unfamiliar, strange, a completely different essence ... our 'rules' of what we think we can logically, rationally deduce in thought just don't essentially apply... but God indulges us continually because of his 'purpose' in us, all of us ... for instance good and evil are 'real' to us because evil hurts vastly more than good [eventually] , they are nothing like being the same... and God doesn't 'approve' evil because it hurts us all far more than being Loving to each other would ... but to God as spirit there is no good and evil, God cannot be hurt ... and there is the Truth [stated in scripture that men mostly ignore because they do not yet understand it] , our spirit cannot be hurt , cannot suffer, because it is of God [and God is ONE spirit, not many] ... but it is the spirit, God, who is endless, not what most call 'familiar'... it is 'our world' , 'our' 'universe' , which ends... not God, not our spirit ... so which is 'more real' ? ... which is in fact 'natural' ? ... God? ... or just ONE of countless worlds God endlessly creates [as 'creator' that is all God 'does' apart from 'exist endlessly' which most men don't think they can do !]

It isn't even necessarily a lie-it is a reflection of what these men genuinely believed.

well , indeed, I think one could show , prove, that ALL 'lies' are simply mistakes at heart... words are such crude things, and men take them far too seriously... they don't merit much of the passion they evoke -except my poetry of course LOLOL

There were hundreds if not thousands of these writings. When they were collected and preserved, only the ones that matched the beliefs and ideals of the ones doing the collecting were preserved in the anthology known today as the "bible". The collectors, influenced by the Hellenization of the time liked the dualism inherent in the concepts of Heaven and Hell.

yes, but it doesn't 'matter' does it ? ... God has shown men directly [in meditation ... in spirit baptism] the WAY God moves man from 'naked ape' to pure spirit ... and it is still barely credible to almost all men that God can change physical mortal man into invisible immortal endless spirit that has no individuals [is ONE] ... it's too 'incredible', 'supernatural', etc ... and there is the irony as-it-were ... the spirit cannot move physically , cannot physically divide to each man , is not a physical component of man like a heart or brain...

...so what use the words ? {I often think (and meditate on) this even of my poetry which only attempts to ALLUDE to the Truth of God , about Love]

the words only ALL serve the [apparent] 'purpose' of God ... and as-it-were for 'now' that purpose is served by mass delusion in religion and politics whilst God prepares the NEXT stage of His plan for 'salvation' of all from the delusion :-

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [c.f Ezekiel 28]

Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

there are 'clouds of heaven' for two principal causes ... Satan[antichristos] and Christ , two covering cherubim at the throne of God IDENTICAL at the throne of God, seeming so very different in the earths as men

Ezekiel 10:14 ... the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man...

and these guard the way to the immortality of the spirit, the tree of life in the third heaven, paradise of God...

guard with what ? - one thing is the sword of the Truth of God about Love,
that none still a sinner [opposite of Love, abuse] can enter the kingdom for mass salvation [Rev 7:9-10]
but the other thing is the clouds ... obscurity ...something we see in this world in particular as evil destroying mankind and the planet [for nothing of any value to anyone long-term , except the misery which makes men stop believing in sin eventually and which perfects the Love of saints who will in turn save billions later through the kingdom of Jesus come ... but it isonly i the hearts and minds of the few saints in this earth :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

so for now , as this site clearly shows, mankind wallows in a morass of lies . mistakes, inconsistencies ... and ironically it is Satan who uses the obvious fallacy of all this to unite the world in false belief of combined mass religion and politics, [e.g, Rev 13:3-4, Ezek 28] just as we have seen done on smaller scale by empires in the past already ...

but NO-ONE can prevent God teaching Himself NOW in spirit baptism the few saints required to build and run the kingdom come under Jesus where billions are saved after the thousand years :-

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

the MANY are destroyed, FEW saved now [Matt 7:13-14]
but countless many saved later [Rev 7:9-10]

so there is purpose indeed in the delusion of mankind... and tracing it back to source, it is simply because MOST men are simply not READY yet to freely CHOOSE to Love now... men think they like sin [but haven't yet seen all the consequences .. which sadly God must LET them see , and it is terrible ... so God's seemingly inappropriate 'wrath' in the end of this word against all who choose sin still, won't change to Love , is simply to LET men suffer the results of their own sin ...

 

[Super Kal]

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Of course, a laywer might demand, "Define everlasting punishment."

It could mean that those subjected to it will suffer forever and ever. But it could also mean that they might suffer a long time then cease to exist never to be resurrected. Or both solutions could apply.

or, the "everlasting punishment" that is spoken of means that the punishment can never be undone

 

[strangertoo]

Sheol and Hades are the realm of the dead. Tartarus and Gehenna are Hell. So, yes, Hell is metioned in the Bible....

'sheol' and 'Hades' are arguably similar concepts but Solomon states that the spirit of a man is of God and returns to God at death ... which is counter to the common notions of what ANY of these are :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

but tartarus [of which we have no second witness in scripture ] is very different from gehenna, which is simply the valley outside of Jerusalem where rubbish is dumped [where executed criminals' bodies were once burned in the PAST]

the BIG problem you ignore is why these DIFFERENT things are all spuriously translated as 'hell' [a hole in the ground for storing potatoes in Winter] and why so many folks take Dante's fictional work 'Inferno' ,first part of Dante Alighieri's 14th-century epic poem Divine Comedy, as though it were true and as if it were scripture... now that is bizarre ...

 

[Senecharnix]

.

but tartarus [of which we have no second witness in scripture ] is very different from gehenna, which is simply the valley outside of Jerusalem where rubbish is dumped [where executed criminals' bodies were once burned in the PAST]

You are mistaken. Yes, there was a valley called Gehenna. The inhabitants of Jerusalem burned rubbish in it. But its name became synonymous with Tartarus--a place where the sinful were sent in the afterlife to be punished....

 

[Senecharnix]

or, the "everlasting punishment" that is spoken of means that the punishment can never be undone

Did I say otherwise? Being punished for a while then ceasing to exist never to be resurrected would be permanent....

 

[Super Kal]

2 Peter 2:4,6 and Jude 1:6-7 correspond with one another.

2 Peter 2:4 says these evil angels are in this place, and are "reserved" for judgment... it does not say they are "in" the judgment... they still await it. Jude 1:6-7 implies the exact same thing.

2 Peter 2:4,6
4 For God did not spare angels when they had sinned, but hurling them down to Tartarus consigned them to caves of darkness, keeping them in readiness for judgement.
6 He reduced to ashes the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and condemned them to overthrow, making them an example to people who might in future be living godless lives.

Jude 6-7
6 And angels--those who did not keep the position originally assigned to them, but deserted their own proper abode--He reserves in everlasting bonds, in darkness, in preparation for the judgement of the great day
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having, in the same way as these, given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

this is Peter and Jude taking about the same exact thing. if you read 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6, you see that they both say they are not being punished in the lake of fire... they say they are in "readiness for judgment" (Peter) or "in preparation for the judgement of the great day" (Jude). this plainly suggests that Tartarus and Gehenna are two distinct places

 

[strangertoo]

You are mistaken. Yes, there was a valley called Gehenna. The inhabitants of Jerusalem burned rubbish in it. But its name became synonymous with Tartarus--a place where the sinful were sent in the afterlife to be punished....

... well it is just about conceivable that folks confused the rubbish tip in Jerusalem with a version of the afterlife , though I find it hard to see why as there seems to be no connection ...

but lets consider it anyway to see... from the rest of scripture ...

the 'afterlife' for sinners [as distinct from those who follow Jesus as saints -Jude 1:14] is the physical life after resurrection of the unjust, a thousand years after creation of the kingdom come of Jesus in the righteous new earth :-

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

the many are destroyed [Matt 7;13] and sleep in death [n 'hell'] for a thousand years whilst the few saints of this earth [Matt 7:14, Rev 13:3-8, Jude 1:14] build the kingdom of Jesus , not in THIS earth , but the new earth :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

so ALL the MANY sinners are eventually released from death and 'hell' [Rev 20:13] , freed from sin by death [Rom 6:7] and so are judged by WORKS [Rev 20:13] after death in the righteous [to love] kingdom of Jesus Christ come to all men at last ... we know the MANY were destroyed [Matt 7:13] in the wrath of God and end of this earth and heavens , FEW saved first to build the kingdom where later countless MANY are saved in their 'afterlife', their second physical life [as Jesus showed us that men are resurrected to the body, not the spirit - Luke 24:39 ]

thus no-one is left in hell and hell is ended once it has no use for after a second death to free one from sin in the kingdom if one sins there , no more death is permitted by God :-

Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

again it is clear then that men are as physical bodies in the lake of fire, very much alive, but unable to die... it is the final trial of Love by baptism of fire and God prevents death because of the terrible shame of two lives of sin finally faced , shame that causes men to seek suicide which is not what God requires... shame and the pain of living with the evil of the most wicked men that ever lived, and Satan Himself as a man, evil concentrated by God removing all who are persuaded to Love in the kingdom, not sin any more - as Jesus says, it is sufficient to cause ALL men to accept him and Love in obedience to him as king [at last] and receive the enduring mercy implicit in the Love of God for ALL His creation :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

NOTE: specially the FEW who find the way now [Matt 7:14]of believing enough to stop sinning and Love now even as the MANY are destroyed [Matt 7:13] so that the kingdom can be built by saints and sainst be its kings and priests ready for the alter salvation of billions -Rev 7:9-10-... but try to see those billions were all destroyed in THIS earth... as sinners ... and consider why God resurrects them if ,as many claim, they are pre-judged in this earth ... clearly this is FALSE , they clearly are saved LATER , after resurrection of the UNJUST , not the first resurrection of teh FEW saints , but the second resurrection of the many sinners of this earth freed of sin by death... freed from 'hell' [Rom 6:7, Rev 20:13, Rev 7:9-10]

so the only 'punishment' of men at any time is God allowing the consequences of the sin of men to both teach sinners sin is indeed bad for them in the long run,and to perfect the Love of saints IN LIFE , both the FEW now and the MANY righteous of the kingdom come saved later ...

so the lake of fire [which some like to the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem, 'gehenna'] is simply the final baptism of fire of the last men to accept Jesus ... as Jesus says all men will do so ...

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

 

[Senecharnix]

2 Peter 2:4,6 and Jude 1:6-7 correspond with one another.

2 Peter 2:4 says these evil angels are in this place, and are "reserved" for judgment... it does not say they are "in" the judgment... they still await it. Jude 1:6-7 implies the exact same thing.

2 Peter 2:4,6
4 For God did not spare angels when they had sinned, but hurling them down to Tartarus consigned them to caves of darkness, keeping them in readiness for judgement.
6 He reduced to ashes the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and condemned them to overthrow, making them an example to people who might in future be living godless lives.

Jude 6-7
6 And angels--those who did not keep the position originally assigned to them, but deserted their own proper abode--He reserves in everlasting bonds, in darkness, in preparation for the judgement of the great day
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having, in the same way as these, given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

this is Peter and Jude taking about the same exact thing. if you read 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6, you see that they both say they are not being punished in the lake of fire... they say they are in "readiness for judgment" (Peter) or "in preparation for the judgement of the great day" (Jude). this plainly suggests that Tartarus and Gehenna are two distinct places

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna--a place of torment).

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there. 27 Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brothers; that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[strangertoo]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna--a place of torment).

There is no evidence of anyone being tormented on the rubbish heap just outside Jerusalem[Gehenna] , nor any connection to 'hell' [a hole in the ground for storing potatoes through the Winter]

but as for killing the soul , that happens to most saints in this life , but only those still sinners by Jesus' return have both soul and body destroyed in the end of this earth ...the saints are translated free of death [after all dead saints are first resurrected to physical life] and taken to build the kingdom of Jesus in the new earth , a thousand years before all sinners are FREED from Hades [mistranslated 'hell'] .... but one cannot harm a dead person , they are indeed often burned in cremation, but NOT as a punishment !!!
Jesus went through 'hell' and said nothing of any torment, but described death as a 'sleep' until one awakes in resurrection... many sleep a thousand years and much more until the kingdom is ready for the resurrection of ALL from 'hell' -Rev 20:13 and God 's judgement upon them is the wages of sin, death to free them from sin [Rome 6:7] , not punishment... they suffered enough from sin in life, none knows anything in death:-

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

there is no other reward/wages for sinners than death to free them from sin ... to start again AFTER the Millennium in the kingdom come of Jesus Christ, the righteous new earth...

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

The fake 'parable' of Lazarus has no second witness in scripture and is obviously in conflict with so much else in scripture that I wonder anyone troubles to take it seriously , just one of many inserts , most of which we KNOW of because supposed copies of original scripture all are DIFFERENT ... absolute proof of the editing

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

A simple long-known seemingly-deliberate mistranslation in KJV copied by sinners in many later bibles :-

Matt 25:41 [YLT] Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

again, same mistake/ deliberate mistranslation later very deliberately copied to other versions...

Matthew 25:46 [YLT] And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

The very simple PROOF of the deliberate lie is that time is finite because it is CREATED integral to our space-time universe, so ends with the end of this universe :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

just ask how time could continue without the universe ... in fact Einstein showed it cannot, and scientists did very accurate experiments to prove Einstein's calculation and theory is right ... Newton was indeed mistaken in his presumption of infinite time ...

Jesus too said there is an END :-

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[Super Kal]

the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is just that: a parable.
not a real place.

Matthew 18:23
"Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king..."

Matthew 21:28
"But what think ye? A certain man had two sons..."

Matthew 21:33
"Hear another parable: There was a certain householder..."

Matthew 22:2
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king..."

Mark 12:1
"And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard..."

Luke 7:41
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors..."

Luke 13:6
"He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard..."

need i go on?...

the eternal torment doctrine places torment, suffering, and pain after the creation of the new heaven and the new earth... John was told that there would be NO MORE pain, suffering, or death, for the former things have "disappeared forever"... either Revelation 21:4 is not Biblical and eternal conscious, immortal torment exists, OR, Revelation 21:4 is Biblical, and eternal conscious, immortal torment does not exist. Revelation 21:4 prevents you from having an eternal torment doctrine

 

[Senecharnix]

There is no evidence of anyone being tormented on the rubbish heap just outside Jerusalem[Gehenna] , nor any connection to 'hell' [a hole in the ground for storing potatoes through the Winter]

but as for killing the soul , that happens to most saints in this life , but only those still sinners by Jesus' return have both soul and body destroyed in the end of this earth ...the saints are translated free of death [after all dead saints are first resurrected to physical life] and taken to build the kingdom of Jesus in the new earth , a thousand years before all sinners are FREED from Hades [mistranslated 'hell'] .... but one cannot harm a dead person , they are indeed often burned in cremation, but NOT as a punishment !!!
Jesus went through 'hell' and said nothing of any torment, but described death as a 'sleep' until one awakes in resurrection... many sleep a thousand years and much more until the kingdom is ready for the resurrection of ALL from 'hell' -Rev 20:13 and God 's judgement upon them is the wages of sin, death to free them from sin [Rome 6:7] , not punishment... they suffered enough from sin in life, none knows anything in death:-

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

there is no other reward/wages for sinners than death to free them from sin ... to start again AFTER the Millennium in the kingdom come of Jesus Christ, the righteous new earth...

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

The fake 'parable' of Lazarus has no second witness in scripture and is obviously in conflict with so much else in scripture that I wonder anyone troubles to take it seriously , just one of many inserts , most of which we KNOW of because supposed copies of original scripture all are DIFFERENT ... absolute proof of the editing

A simple long-known seemingly-deliberate mistranslation in KJV copied by sinners in many later bibles :-

Matt 25:41 [YLT] Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers

again, same mistake/ deliberate mistranslation later very deliberately copied to other versions...

Matthew 25:46 [YLT] And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

The very simple PROOF of the deliberate lie is that time is finite because it is CREATED integral to our space-time universe, so ends with the end of this universe :-

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

just ask how time could continue without the universe ... in fact Einstein showed it cannot, and scientists did very accurate experiments to prove Einstein's calculation and theory is right ... Newton was indeed mistaken in his presumption of infinite time ...

Jesus too said there is an END :-

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Strangertoo, it may surprise you, but this universe is not nearly the only time-spce continuum or dimension that exists. Time also flows in the heavenly realms and infernal regions just not at the same rate here. If there were no time in them, they would be inert and nothing at all would ever occur in them. Time is an essential component of existence and is as integral to the equation of existence as width, depth, height, energy, motion, mass, and the forces that hold things together such as gravity and magnetism...The bottom line is that, once this universe is gone, the heavenly realms and infernal regions will still be around, and quite probably, so too will countless other time-space continuums and dimensions....

As for the translation anomolies that you have pointed out, I have no idea what they might signify. The terms "everlasting" and "eternal" make perfect sense to me. The problem might be that the writers using the term that you suggest might have suffered from an inability to conceptualize "everlasting" and "eternal." People back then were just as intelligent as we are. But they did not generally think things out to the point that they grasped the full magnitude of various concepts. [Talking to them about millions and billions of years would have boggled their minds.] A closely related problem is that their languages were not highly evolved (well developed). And so, their abiity express themselves was far more limited than is our ability to do so....

 

[Senecharnix]

the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is just that: a parable.
not a real place.

Matthew 18:23
"Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king..."

Matthew 21:28
"But what think ye? A certain man had two sons..."

Matthew 21:33
"Hear another parable: There was a certain householder..."

Matthew 22:2
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king..."

Mark 12:1
"And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard..."

Luke 7:41
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors..."

Luke 13:6
"He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard..."

need i go on?...

the eternal torment doctrine places torment, suffering, and pain after the creation of the new heaven and the new earth... John was told that there would be NO MORE pain, suffering, or death, for the former things have "disappeared forever"... either Revelation 21:4 is not Biblical and eternal conscious, immortal torment exists, OR, Revelation 21:4 is Biblical, and eternal conscious, immortal torment does not exist. Revelation 21:4 prevents you from having an eternal torment doctrine

Parables reveal the truth in interesting ways....

 

[Super Kal]

and i see you cavalier dismissed Revelation 21:4

 

[Senecharnix]

and i see you cavalier dismissed Revelation 21:4

No more cavalierly than you dismissed the passages that I offered...By the way, Revelation 21 is only referring to the people that God spares from Hell....

 

[Super Kal]

because strangertoo already addressed them. i dont have to repeat what he already said.

and that's not what the verse says... it says pain, suffering, and death are gone. these things are not found in heaven at all. these are only things that are found outside of heaven. as it says, the former things, the first heaven and first earth have passed away... nice try, but no cigar.

 

[Senecharnix]

because strangertoo already addressed them. i dont have to repeat what he already said.

and that's not what the verse says... it says pain, suffering, and death are gone. these things are not found in heaven at all. these are only things that are found outside of heaven. as it says, the former things, the first heaven and first earth have passed away... nice try, but no cigar.

Yeah, pain, suffering, and death are gone in regard to the people that God spares from Hell. If you care to notice what Revelation says in the previous chapter, everyone else is dumped in the Lake of Fire...Anyway, I have had enough fun. I shall leave you to your misconceptions and resume doing something more profitable....

 

[someguy14]

the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is just that: a parable.
not a real place.

Will scripture convince, obviously not.

All parables are true, but only those of God are fully aware of it.

Surprises apparently await those that reject Jesus.

 

[Super Kal]

Yeah, pain, suffering, and death are gone in regard to the people that God spares from Hell. If you care to notice what Revelation says in the previous chapter, everyone else is dumped in the Lake of Fire...Anyway, I have had enough fun. I shall leave you to your misconceptions and resume doing something more profitable....

yeah, I did read Revelation 20, especially 20:14, which says death and hell are thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death. I read it for what it says: the second death. death is death, not everlasting life, as you would put it. and the last time i checked, it was Jesus Himself who said "whosoever beleiveth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life", and Paul said "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"... but that's the problem with dualism.

eternal life is a gift, friend, not something we already have.
go back and read Romans 6:23 and John 3:16 and spend some more time in devotion in prayer with God to fully understand the gift that He has given to us.

Will scripture convince, obviously not.

All parables are true, but only those of God are fully aware of it.

Surprises apparently await those that reject Jesus.

i never said the parables were not true. you wrongfully assumed that.
all parables describe a spiritual situation, but not they do not represent literal places. for example, in the parable of the treasure in the field, the field is symbolic for the earth, and the treasure symbolic for the church... metaphors, friend. not literal things.

and the end of your post suggests that because i believe in Conditional Immortality, i am not a "true Christian"... then Justin Martyr and Irenaeus were not true Christians either, nor were the Christians in the Church at Ephesus, because that was the church taught Conditional Immortality in the 1st-2nd century. it was the church in Rome that first taught the Eternal Torment doctrine, and the church in Alexandria that taught Universal Reconciliation

everlasting life come from repentance, faith, and baptism, friend... not the Eternal Torment doctrine.