Why do some Christian's dismiss Creationism?

[The Lady Kate]

Sure I don't have any. God tell us homosexuality is wrong. I have no problem trying to write it into law. For this, I'm doing God's will.

But the Constitution forbids discrimination. You cared about the Constitution a minute ago, remember?

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

But the Constitution forbids discrimination. You cared about the Constitution a minute ago, remember?

Homosexuality isn't covered in Constitution.

What's your understanding of discrimination?
suppose one go to find a job. the interviewer ask him "have you finished high school?" he says "no" the interviewer says "then we can't hire you" Do you call this dicrimination?

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

And Kerry supports legal abortion because
1) it is against the constitution to forbid it,
2) you can't force a religion among people and abortion is opposed on religious grounds,
3) there is no state religion permitted by the US constitution.

That doesn't mean he personally approves abortion. It means he personally believes in upholding the constitution. You cannot write Catholic teachings into the law unless the constitution is changed.

Perhaps you think it is hypocritical for an American Catholic to seek the presidency until the constitution is changed?

1. find the constitution forbids it. I guess a lot of such debates have occured elsewhere in this site. I don't want to go into it now.
2. Murder, theft are all opposed on religious grounds. I can't believe any Christian would question this. Murder and theft is wrong because God told us so.
3. forbidding abortion or homosexual marriage is establishing a state religion? Where did you get that? American Communist Lawyers Union?

 

[Mskedi]

I can't speak for anyone else, but here's why I "dismiss" creationism:

It doesn't matter.

It makes no difference whatsoever to my faith if the world was created in 7 days or if it took millions of years to evolve into what we have now.

I wouldn't consider Genesis a lie regardless-- it's a story with a point. It need not be scientifically or historically accurate for that point to still be valid.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

I can't speak for anyone else, but here's why I "dismiss" creationism:

It doesn't matter.

It makes no difference whatsoever to my faith if the world was created in 7 days or if it took millions of years to evolve into what we have now.

I wouldn't consider Genesis a lie regardless-- it's a story with a point. It need not be scientifically or historically accurate for that point to still be valid.

since it doesn't matter why don't you side with Creationists?

 

[The Lady Kate]

since it doesn't matter why don't you side with Creationists?

Because it certainly would matter if we said that something was true when we believe it to be false.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Homosexuality isn't covered in Constitution.

Fairness and equality are... why deny it to a group of people who never did anything to you?

What's your understanding of discrimination?
suppose one go to find a job. the interviewer ask him "have you finished high school?" he says "no" the interviewer says "then we can't hire you" Do you call this dicrimination?

Suppose one goes to find a job. The interviewer asks him, "are you black?" He says "yes." The interviewer says, "then we can't hire you." Do you call this discrimination?

Suppose one goes to find a job. The interviewer asks her, "are you a woman?" She says "yes." The interviewer says, "then we can't hire you." Do you call this discrimination?

Suppose one goes to find a job. The interviewer asks him, "are you gay?" He says "yes." The interviewer says, "then we can't hire you." Do you call this discrimination?

 

[gluadys]

1. find the constitution forbids it. I guess a lot of such debates have occured elsewhere in this site. I don't want to go into it now.

The Supreme Court is the body which is mandated to interpret the application of the constitution. Forbidding abortion was ruled unconstitutional in the case of Roe vs. Wade back in the 1970s.

2. Murder, theft are all opposed on religious grounds. I can't believe any Christian would question this. Murder and theft is wrong because God told us so.

They are also opposed on secular grounds and to maintain social order. Non-religious and even anti-religious governments such as that of the former Soviet Union forbade these deeds.

Always an interesting philosophical question:

Are murder and theft wrong because God forbids them?

or

Does God forbid murder and theft because they are wrong?

Are murder and theft always wrong whether or not God forbids them?

or

Are murder and theft ok if God does not forbid them?

3. forbidding abortion or homosexual marriage is establishing a state religion? Where did you get that? American Communist Lawyers Union?

If you cannot show that they are wrong on non-religious grounds you cannot forbid them without allowing the state to favour religion over non-religion. That would require a change in the constitution.

Can you show they are wrong without invoking the name of God or the Christian religion?

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Then explain to me why it's not lying. the Father said He created the everything in 6 days and it's not true,

The Holy Spirit inspired the authors of Genesis to communicate certain truths, those authors drew on existing mythology and radically reshaped it in a manner that would be memorable and would get the message across.

The Rommish wise-woman says:

"If the father eats onions and the mother eats garlic the child will have bad breath."​

The Psychiatrist says:

"When you have an alcoholic father and a prescription abusing passive agressive mother the child is likely to exhibit seriously maladaptive psychoses."

Is either lieing?

Which is easier to remember?

the Son came and claimed the Father done it in 6 days

No, you interpret his words to mean that.

I, OTOH, do not believe that when referring to a well known story to make a point it is not necessary to clarify whether or not one beleives the story is factual.

eh, "hidden knowledge" I guess, something God doesn't want everyone to know.

Yet for 1000s of years devout believers interpreted the incorrectly.

But you are absolutely certain that you have not had any knowledge hidden from you, that your interpretation is the TRUTH.

Congratulations, you're qualified as a gnostic now.

You were saying something about abusiveness and namecalling?

We still have water vaper at the top of atmophere, though much less than the pre-flood period.

Do you understand why atmospheric pressure at sea level is 15.2 lbs/sq inch?

Do you understand why nitrogen narcosis occurs at depths below 100 feet and the significance of my calculations based 2 inchs of rain /hour for the raining part of the deluge?​

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

ThaiDuykhang wrote:

JK said he oppose abortion and publicly pushes for abortion. what kind of hypocrisy it is? I mean from either side of the abortion issue, who can say JK isn't a hypocrite?

The Lady Kate wrote:

People on both sides who are smart enough to realize that Kerry doesn't want his personal beliefs made into laws.

ThaiDuykhang wrote:

Do you think someone will push for something he believes is wrong?

Robert the Pilegrim wrote:

At the church of a non-Christian religion they were practicing animal sacrifices, the local town outlawed the sacrifices. The ACLU helped the church bring suit and many major Christian Churchs wrote friend of the court briefs supporting the overturning of the law.

ThaiDuykhang wrote:

What this has to anthing to do with my post?​

Christian Churches believe that animal sacrifices to other gods are wrong, they are backing for the constitutional freedom of those people to worship their gods without gov't interference.

John Kerry* believes abortion to be wrong, but he also believes that the right to privacy and in particular the right of private medical treatment must be upheld.
(The right of privacy having been held to be behind the 4th (and I believe 1 or 2 other) Amendment by the Supreme Court)

In fact, I have not read anything like an indepth explanation of Kerry's thoughts on this matter, so I am guessing here.
I realize you are Catholic, but perhaps you will find an excerpt of Luther's small Catechism worthy of some consideration.
from http://www.ucc.org/faith/small.htm [Bolding added by me.]

The Eighth Commandment:
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
We should love and fear God, and so we should not tell lies about our neighbor, nor betray, slander or defame him, but should apologize for him, speak well for him, and interpret charitably all that he does.​

Jumping to conclusions about what other people think, how they view issues, and then spreading those conclusions as fact does not strike me as a good idea.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Because it certainly would matter if we said that something was true when we believe it to be false.

Are you assuming Mskedi doesn't mean it's really not nothing?One of you two is lying.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Fairness and equality are... why deny it to a group of people who never did anything to you?

Why murderers should be jailed/executed while they have done nothing to me?

Suppose one goes to find a job. The interviewer asks him, "are you black?" He says "yes." The interviewer says, "then we can't hire you." Do you call this discrimination?

Black is racial and is covered under the law. where's homosexuality covered?

Suppose one goes to find a job. The interviewer asks her, "are you a woman?" She says "yes." The interviewer says, "then we can't hire you." Do you call this discrimination?

"Woman" is gender and is covered under the law. where's homosexuality covered?

Suppose one goes to find a job. The interviewer asks him, "are you gay?" He says "yes." The interviewer says, "then we can't hire you." Do you call this discrimination?

this depends on the type of job. homosexuals can't do certain jobs and can do some jobs.
I just show you there's no absolute non-discrimination. to call for that is to ruin the society.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

The Supreme Court is the body which is mandated to interpret the application of the constitution. Forbidding abortion was ruled unconstitutional in the case of Roe vs. Wade back in the 1970s.

Where does it say it's infallible and can't be overturned?

They are also opposed on secular grounds and to maintain social order. Non-religious and even anti-religious governments such as that of the former Soviet Union forbade these deeds.

Always an interesting philosophical question:

Are murder and theft wrong because God forbids them?

or

Does God forbid murder and theft because they are wrong?

Are murder and theft always wrong whether or not God forbids them?

or

Are murder and theft ok if God does not forbid them?

Murder and theft is wrong because God forbids them.
God forbids murder and theft because God thinks they're wrong. not because what human thinks. According to Darwinism, murder and theft can promote the survival of individuals.
If God hadn't forbidden them, then they would have been OK.

You simply failed to grasp what "All morals are given by God" means. Atheists have no God hence no moral.

If you cannot show that they are wrong on non-religious grounds you cannot forbid them without allowing the state to favour religion over non-religion. That would require a change in the constitution.

Can you show they are wrong without invoking the name of God or the Christian religion?

I can't. Can you? you give a reason I'll refute you.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Christian Churches believe that animal sacrifices to other gods are wrong, they are backing for the constitutional freedom of those people to worship their gods without gov't interference.
John Kerry* believes abortion to be wrong, but he also believes that the right to privacy and in particular the right of private medical treatment must be upheld.
(The right of privacy having been held to be behind the 4th (and I believe 1 or 2 other) Amendment by the Supreme Court)

In fact, I have not read anything like an indepth explanation of Kerry's thoughts on this matter, so I am guessing here.
I realize you are Catholic, but perhaps you will find an excerpt of Luther's small Catechism worthy of some consideration.

from http://www.ucc.org/faith/small.htm [Bolding added by me.]

The Eighth Commandment:
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
We should love and fear God, and so we should not tell lies about our neighbor, nor betray, slander or defame him, but should apologize for him, speak well for him, and interpret charitably all that he does.
​

Jumping to conclusions about what other people think, how they view issues, and then spreading those conclusions as fact does not strike me as a good idea.

It's difficult to ban animal sacrifice because one day it may backfire on Christians. the US isn't a monarchy, if it were a Christian(either Protestant or Catholic) Monarchy then there's no problem to ban animal sacrifice.

According to you, John Kerry believes secular teaching overrides God's teaching, do you agree with him?

You call God a liar. that's interpreting charitably what He does?

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

The Holy Spirit inspired the authors of Genesis to communicate certain truths, those authors drew on existing mythology and radically reshaped it in a manner that would be memorable and would get the message across.


The Rommish wise-woman says:

"If the father eats onions and the mother eats garlic the child will have bad breath."​

The Psychiatrist says:

"When you have an alcoholic father and a prescription abusing passive agressive mother the child is likely to exhibit seriously maladaptive psychoses."

Is either lieing?
​

I can't verify either and can't comment. but the onion comment doesn't look true. if it has no context, I would consider it lies or mistakes. about the 2nd one, I only know there's a conclusion like that. I don't know why it's that as I don't study medicine.

Which is easier to remember?

No, you interpret his words to mean that.

I, OTOH, do not believe that when referring to a well known story to make a point it is not necessary to clarify whether or not one beleives the story is factual.

Yet for 1000s of years devout believers interpreted the incorrectly.

But you are absolutely certain that you have not had any knowledge hidden from you, that your interpretation is the TRUTH.

You were saying something about abusiveness and namecalling?

Do you understand why atmospheric pressure at sea level is 15.2 lbs/sq inch?

Do you understand why nitrogen narcosis occurs at depths below 100 feet and the significance of my calculations based 2 inchs of rain /hour for the raining part of the deluge?

There're things God didn't mention in the Bible. perhaps including SR and GR. but He doesn't hamper us from discovering them. Evolutionism on the other hand can only be discovered by some one with little faith(Darwin himself admitted he lost Christian faith)
You're interested in hidden knowledge. that's the definition of gnostic. Can you prove the contrary? gnostic is namecalling? then how about charlatan?
Your calculation has been discussed. Why bring it out now? What are you doing back then?​

 

[shernren]

Murder and theft is wrong because God forbids them.
God forbids murder and theft because God thinks they're wrong. not because what human thinks. According to Darwinism, murder and theft can promote the survival of individuals.
If God hadn't forbidden them, then they would have been OK.

This is majorly off tangent, but that is a more Islamic "syariah" understanding of law and morality than Christian. In Islam something is right or wrong when Allah says / has said so in the Al Quran or supporting Muslim literature. These are declarations and proclamations of an absolute standard.

The crucial (lol) difference between Islam and Christianity in this area is that in Christianity it cannot be simply because of what God says, but because of who God is. In Islam Allah can murder even if He has said that murder is wrong - because Allah is Allah and as an infinite impersonal God He is not held to His own moral standards. For Christianity, murder is wrong because God Himself created life and by God's very character to murder is to usurp God's absolute right to life.

It is not that "Murder would not be wrong if God had not forbidden it" (this points towards the Muslim view - Allah could have chosen not to forbid it and still be Allah) but that God could never have not forbidden murder because God is God and He would never contradict His character and His irrevokable actions in history.

 

[The Lady Kate]

this depends on the type of job. homosexuals can't do certain jobs and can do some jobs.
I just show you there's no absolute non-discrimination. to call for that is to ruin the society.

Name one job that a homosexual is unable to do because they are homosexual.

 

[Mskedi]

Are you assuming Mskedi doesn't mean it's really not nothing?One of you two is lying.

I was saying that I don't think it's important either way. I honestly have no opinion on the subject because it has no bearing whatsoever on my faith. It's entirely possible that the evidence we see for evolution was planted there by God. It's equally possible that the world took a long time to get to the point where it is today. I don't see how how the world was made makes any difference to how people live in the world now.

And I don't think anyone was lying, but I do think I may have been misunderstood.

 

[gluadys]

Where does it say it's infallible and can't be overturned?

Supreme court decisions are not infallible and have been reversed, notably with regard to the constitutionality of slavery.

Perhaps a future Supreme Court will reverse or modify Roe vs. Wade, but until one does, the current interpretation must guide legislation on this issue.

Murder and theft is wrong because God forbids them.
God forbids murder and theft because God thinks they're wrong. not because what human thinks.If God hadn't forbidden them, then they would have been OK.

So by your lights, you would be within your right to murder if God had not forbidden it.

That makes most atheists more moral than you. Most atheists refrain from murder because they can tell for themselves it is wrong without waiting for God to forbid it.

According to Darwinism, murder and theft can promote the survival of individuals.

By "Darwinism" do you mean "evolution"? "Darwinism" has several different meanings, so I ask what does it mean to you?

Evolution is not about the survival of individuals. It is about the origin and survival of species. No murder or theft is needed for evolution to happen.

I can't. Can you? you give a reason I'll refute you.

I can't either. That is why, under the US constitution, no law can forbid abortion or same-sex marriage. That would favour religion over non-religion, and that is what the constitution forbids.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Supreme court decisions are not infallible and have been reversed, notably with regard to the constitutionality of slavery.

Perhaps a future Supreme Court will reverse or modify Roe vs. Wade, but until one does, the current interpretation must guide legislation on this issue.

What's this has to do with topic. have you seen any attempt to outlaw abortion is aimed at reversing roe vs wade or bypass it?

So by your lights, you would be within your right to murder if God had not forbidden it.

That makes most atheists more moral than you. Most atheists refrain from murder because they can tell for themselves it is wrong without waiting for God to forbid it.

I could murder had God not forbidden it.
The difference between me and atheists are, if secular law allows murder, atheists will go on a rampage but I'll still not kill anyone

By "Darwinism" do you mean "evolution"? "Darwinism" has several different meanings, so I ask what does it mean to you?

Evolution is not about the survival of individuals. It is about the origin and survival of species. No murder or theft is needed for evolution to happen.

Darwinism here means evolutionism. a group of human is more likely to survive to they can kill or steal from another group. then the other group is extincted and the first group survived.

I can't either. That is why, under the US constitution, no law can forbid abortion or same-sex marriage. That would favour religion over non-religion, and that is what the constitution forbids.

US consititution never forbid outlawing abortion and homosexual marriage. if you don't agree, show it to me. outlawing homosexual marriage is establishing a religion? also I'd like to ask you which religion it is. Judaism, Muslim, Christianity? Constitution allows making law from religious teachings. It just doesn't allow the establishment of a state religion.