From my point of view, people are tested when others tell them it's been fulfilled when it hasn't been and those who cross over to the other side have failed the test. A Jew is to stay true to Torah even in the face of the entire world screaming that we are wrong. We are to cling to Torah. Every faith I know that loves to tell us we're wrong first tells us that we no longer need Torah; we can have something else!
I can understand that for centuries, Jews may have expected the prophet of [Deut 18:18] to be an Israelite one, but once it became clear to them that the prophecy was actually fulfilled in an Ishmaelite prophet, jealousy/enmity should not have been allowed to prevent a majority of the Jews from accepting him.The Madinese had always heard the Jews say that a Prophet was about to rise, for the time for a new dispensation had arrived. Him they would follow and then smite their enemies as the children of ‘Ad and Iram had been smitten.
... The Prophet (Peace be upon him) presented to them (the Arabs of Madina) an expose of Islam, explained its implications, and the responsibilities that fell upon the men who accepted it. When the Prophet (Peace be upon him) concluded his talk, they exchanged among themselves ideas to the following effect: “Know surely, this is the Prophet with whom the Jews are ever threatening us; wherefore let us make haste and be the first to join him.” They, therefore, embraced Islam, and said to the Prophet ...
Ibn Ishaq, on the authority of the Mother of believers Safiyah (May Allah be pleased her) narrated: Safiyah, daughter of Huyayi bin Akhtab said: I was the closest child to my father and my uncle Abi Yasir’s heart. Whenever they saw me with a child of theirs, they should pamper me so tenderly to the exclusion of anyone else. However, with the advent of the Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) and setting in Quba’ with Bani ‘Amr bin ‘Awf, my father, Huyayi bin Akhtab and my uncle Abu Yasir bin Akhtab went to see him and did not return until sunset when they came back walking lazily and fully dejected.
I, as usually, hurried to meet them smiling, but they would not turn to me for the grief that caught them. I heard my uncle Abu Yasir say to Ubai and Huyayi: “Is it really he [i.e. Muhammad (Peace be upon him)]?” The former said: “It is he, I swear by Allâh!” “Did you really recognize him?” they asked. He answered: “Yes, and my heart is burning with enmity towards him”
An interesting story that took place on the first day, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) stepped in Madinah, could be quoted to illustrate the mental disturbance and deep anxiety that beset the Jews. ‘Abdullah bin Salam, the most learned rabbi among the Jews came to see the Prophet (Peace be upon him) when he arrived, and asked him certain questions to ascertain his real Prophethood. No sooner did he hear the Prophet’s answers than he embraced Islam, but added that if his people knew of his Islamization they would advance false arguments against me.
The Prophet (Peace be upon him) sent for some Jews and asked them about ‘Abdullah bin Salam, they testified to his scholarly aptitude and virtuous standing. Here it was divulged to them that he had embraced Islam and on the spot, they imparted categorically opposite testimonies and described him as the most evil of all evils. In another narration ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, “O Jews! Be Allâh fearing. By Allâh, the only One, you know that he is the Messenger of Allâh sent to people with the Truth.” They replied, “You are lying.” ... That was the Prophet’s first experience with the Jews.
Salaam Alaikum. Where do you get the idea that Muhammad is described in the Torah? Is it true that the Quran says that he is in the Torah and Gospel, and that Christians and Jews are instructed to look in these books to find him mentioned there?You might the following excerpt from the book 'Ar-Raheeq al Makhtum' (The Sealed Nectar) of some interest. It is about the Jewish expectations of a prophet at the time (according to Deut 18:18), which they had told the Arabs around them, and their subsequent attitude after they recognised Muhammad s.a. as being the very prophet whom they were expecting:
I can understand that for centuries, Jews may have expected the prophet of [Deut 18:18] to be an Israelite one, but once it became clear to them that the prophecy was actually fulfilled in an Ishmaelite prophet, jealousy/enmity should not have been allowed to prevent a majority of the Jews from accepting him.
Accepting the Qur'an does not involve rejecting the Torah which is described as a guidance and light in the Qur'an; rather, one rejects the Torah by rejecting the fulfillment of it's prophecies about Muhammad s.a.
Peace.
Salaam Alaikum. Where do you get the idea that Muhammad is described in the Torah? Is it true that the Quran says that he is in the Torah and Gospel, and that Christians and Jews are instructed to look in these books to find him mentioned there?
It does not say 'fellow israelites' in the hebrew or in most translations. It states 'their brethren', by which it was meant the ishmaelites, who are the brethren of the israelites, for Ishmael and Isaac were brothers.This is what Deuteronomy 18:18 states:
No, he was one of the Ishmaelites, the brethren of the Israelites.Was Muhammad an Israelite?
Our messiah and the messianic age suppose to bring back exiles, universal peace, etc. None of this happened, yet. As a matter of fact, events since 1st century AD make the Babylonian exile look like rainy vacation in Hawaii. How can any sane Jew look at Jesus' and his followers "accomplishments" and even consider him the promised messiah?Shalom. What makes you say He failed?
Muhammad s.a. is mentioned in a number of places in the Bible.
It does not say 'fellow israelites' in the hebrew or in most translations. It states 'their brethren', by which it was meant the ishmaelites, who are the brethren of the israelites, for Ishmael and Isaac were brothers.
No, he was one of the Ishmaelites, the brethren of the Israelites.
Peace.
Because He has yet to return. He was crucified, died and was resurrected... as He predicted.Our messiah and the messianic age suppose to bring back exiles, universal peace, etc. None of this happened, yet. As a matter of fact, events since 1st century AD make the Babylonian exile look like rainy vacation in Hawaii. How can any sane Jew look at Jesus' and his followers "accomplishments" and even consider him the promised messiah?
He was the return of the Spirit and Power of Elijah, according to Jesus.
The reason I am asking ViaCrucis this question, is - many were expecting the literal return of the flesh and blood of Elijah and they got - John the Baptist, born of a woman.
And ViaCrucis just stated that Jesus of Nazareth is going to literally return in the flesh.
Why would he accept John the Baptist as the return of Elijah, but expect a physical return of Jesus?
Because He has yet to return. He was crucified, died and was resurrected... as He predicted.
He is coming back.
Alaikum Salaam.
True enough, I should have looked more closely. It does say "their brethren". Let's read Deuteronomy 18 to see what the term "their brethren" is a reference to.
Are you saying your grandpa predicted his death and resurrection, and then died and after three days rose from the dead? I have to run to work now, I'll be glad to discuss Isaiah 53 with you later. Take care.And if he comes back and finishes the job then, and only then, would a Jew who follows Torah be able to call him messiah. I could claim my grandfather is coming back to be messiah and it holds the same chance as of this moment in time.
I don't recognize what he did as being any part of the Messianic mission and I'm sure if your thinking Isaiah 53 you have seen me go over that a good 10 times on this forum.
Because that's what the Apostles taught, laid down in the New Testament, confessed by the holy catholic and apostolic Church in all her creeds and confessions down through the last two thousand years.
If I believed otherwise I wouldn't be a Christian.
-CryptoLutheran
Are you saying your grandpa predicted his death and resurrection, and then died and after three days rose from the dead? I have to run to work now, I'll be glad to discuss Isaiah 53 with you later. Take care.
Because that's what the Apostles taught, laid down in the New Testament, confessed by the holy catholic and apostolic Church in all her creeds and confessions down through the last two thousand years.