Which of these two gospels is most correct?

[EmSw]

You contradicted yourself...ALL sins include future sins.

My opinion, you took James way out of context with your cherry picking.

If all sin includes future sins, why did Jesus tell the churches in Revelation to repent?

 

[EmSw]

The "doing good" is the same as obeying the Gospel. When some Jews came to Christ and asked Him what works God requires (John 6:28,29), Jesus said that believing was the *work* that was required in order to be saved.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Anyone who thinks believing is a work, then they must say they are saved by works.

 

[-57]

I'm wondering how all this is accomplished if man does nothing.
How does man lay hold on eternal life if he doesn't fight the good fight of faith?
How does man strive against sin if he does nothing?
Does he hide his talent in the ground and do nothing?

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

2nd Tim 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God

Phillipians 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

 

[-57]

If all sin includes future sins, why did Jesus tell the churches in Revelation to repent?

Because they were not representing His church.

 

[Marvin Knox]

................A behavioral standard like the Law can never be the basis for our standing before God (justification), because all it can do is accuse us of being imperfect.

Amen to that brother.

That's the problem with gospel number 2 and those which say things along the lines I expressed in explaining it.

We see the same mistake being made here again on this thread just as elsewhere.

There are variances in particulars just as I said that there were in both number 1 and number 2. But the basic difference between the two ways to salvation remains the same.

Any behavioral standard can never be the basis for our standing before God (justification). Only the work of Christ on our behalf can be that basis.

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[EmSw]

Because they were not representing His church.

So, all your sins are forgiven if you represent the church, and they aren't forgiven if you aren't representing the church.

Do you have scripture which says God will forgive us if we represent the church? What exactly is representing the church?

 

[EmSw]

Amen to that brother.

That's the problem with gospel number 2 and those which say things along the lines I expressed in explaining it.

We see the same mistake being made here again on this thread just as elsewhere.

There are variances in particulars just as I said that there were in both number 1 and number 2. But the basic difference between the two ways to salvation remains the same.

Any behavioral standard can never be the basis for our standing before God (justification). Only the work of Christ on our behalf can be that basis.

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

You don't know much about justification (righteousness) in the Old Testament, do you? Perhaps you should do a study on the word tsaddiyq (Strong's H6662).

 

[-57]

So, all your sins are forgiven if you represent the church, and they aren't forgiven if you aren't representing the church.

So forgiveness is given if you represent the church? Do you have scripture which says God will forgive us if we represent the church? What exactly is representing the church?

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[EmSw]

How did you come to that conclusion?

It came from your lips.

 

[-57]

It came from your lips.

Where did I say you must represent the church to get saved? You seemed to have said it for me.

 

[EmSw]

Where did I say you must represent the church to get saved? You seemed to have said it for me.

Post #44. Perhaps you didn't mean the ones who are told to repent by Jesus didn't represent the church.

 

[Marvin Knox]

You don't know much about justification (righteousness) in the Old Testament, do you? Pe

Since you put it into the form of a question - the answer is yes.

But I'm sure that others would like to be enlightened by you if you will favor us.

 

[EmSw]

Since you put it into the form of a question - the answer is yes.

But I'm sure that others would like to be enlightened by you if you will favor us.

Man was justified, thus righteous, by the life he lived, not just his belief. In other words, by his behavior and obedience.

 

[samir]

Scripture says that SANCTIFICATION is a lifelong process, but that too has three tenses.

1. We are already sanctified through the indwelling Holy Spirit

2. We are being sanctified by the power of the Spirit into the likeness of Christ

3. We shall be perfected when we see Christ at the Rapture.

As to justification, we don't have to go back to the 16th century. Just read and study the epistle to the Romans, which is the Word of God. Take Rom 5:1 as an example:

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Interesting that you quote Rom 5:1 that says "being justified" meaning they are presently continuing the process of justification and not "have been justified" which would have indicated an event in the past. Rom 5:1 confirms that justification is a lifelong process.

 

[samir]

The "doing good" is the same as obeying the Gospel.

Part of obeying the Gospel is obeying the commandments.

When some Jews came to Christ and asked Him what works God requires (John 6:28,29), Jesus said that believing was the *work* that was required in order to be saved.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing in one work that is necessary but not the only one. Read the rest of scripture and you'll see that other works are required too.

 

[samir]

Any behavioral standard can never be the basis for our standing before God (justification).

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him,d]">[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25, NKJV)”

Only the work of Christ on our behalf can be that basis.

If that's the case then everyone goes to Heaven since Christ died for everyone. Are you a universalist?

 

[hedrick]

Interesting that you quote Rom 5:1 that says "being justified" meaning they are presently continuing the process of justification and not "have been justified" which would have indicated an event in the past. Rom 5:1 confirms that justification is a lifelong process.

This is a bizarre reading of the grammar of English, not to mention Greek. "Justified" here is aorist, and certainly does mean in the past. Hence NRSV translates "Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand; and wec boast in our hope of sharing the glory of God."

 

[ewq1938]

The OP has been revised to indicate which gospel I prefer - even though anyone should be able to comment on their own views without referring to mine.

Gospel means "good news" and neither position represents "good news". You should be using "theology" not "gospel".

 

[Marvin Knox]

Man was justified, thus righteous, by the life he lived, not just his belief. In other words, by his behavior and obedience.

You seem to have misunderstood the basics on justification as the N.T. fleshes it out for us.

The righteous life one lives is a good indicator of the faith one has in God.

But men are not justified before God because of their actions but because of Faith.

That goes for the saints of old such as Abraham and also for the saints of today.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Gospel means "good news" and neither position represents "good news". You should be using "theology" not "gospel".

Number one has always seemed to me to be pretty good news even though it seems to be foolishness to some.

By all means enlighten us on what is the good news of Jesus Christ.