Which is more important to you - faith or knowledge?

[ephraimanesti]

Faith (belief that is not based on proof) and knowledge (acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles) are by definition mutually exclusive. Faith can be inspired by knowledge (even false knowledge), but faith in and of itself is not a tool for acquiring knowledge. If your religious beliefs are justified to you by evidence or some kind of personal revelation then you are no longer operating on faith to believe. Faith does nothing to demonstrate that the beliefs you have are true- in order to do that you must rely on logic, reason, and evidence.

Therefore, resolving to faith without justifying that faith is tantamount to foolishness.

MY FRIEND,

When dealing with God, increased Faith leads to increased Knowledge. Reason being that as our Faith and Trust in Him grows, He allows us to experience and apprehend more of His Glory. As the relationship continues to grow, so does our Faith in God and our Knowledge of God. This is a basic axiom of the Christian Faith.

i thank you, though, for the fun experience of listening to an atheist pontificate on the nature of faith.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Hestha]

Faith (belief that is not based on proof) and knowledge (acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles) are by definition mutually exclusive. Faith can be inspired by knowledge (even false knowledge), but faith in and of itself is not a tool for acquiring knowledge. If your religious beliefs are justified to you by evidence or some kind of personal revelation then you are no longer operating on faith to believe. Faith does nothing to demonstrate that the beliefs you have are true- in order to do that you must rely on logic, reason, and evidence. Therefore, when Christian apologists say they have faith, they aren't quite right because they have the "evidence" of creationism to support their beliefs.

Resolving to faith without rational justification is simply foolish.

You do realize that not all Christians are creationists, do you?

Evangelicals are notorious for their belief in creationism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You do realize that not all Christians are creationists, do you?

Evangelicals are notorious for their belief in creationism.

Though not all. The Evangelical Right, generally; but there are plenty of self-identifying Evangelicals (even those who would probably describe themselves as "conservative") who embrace evolutionary theory. The most prominent name I can think of is Francis Collins, the former head of the Human Genome Project.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Theofane]

Which is more important to you - faith or knowledge?

Knowledge is important, but more important is faith. Like how imagination is more important than knowledge. (Einstein)

 

[Theofane]

Faith (belief that is not based on proof) and knowledge (acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles) are by definition mutually exclusive. Faith can be inspired by knowledge (even false knowledge), but faith in and of itself is not a tool for acquiring knowledge. If your religious beliefs are justified to you by evidence or some kind of personal revelation then you are no longer operating on faith to believe. Faith does nothing to demonstrate that the beliefs you have are true- in order to do that you must rely on logic, reason, and evidence. Therefore, when Christian apologists say they have faith, they aren't quite right because they have the "evidence" of creationism to support their beliefs.

Resolving to faith without rational justification is simply foolish.

I'm not sure faith has any rational justification to begin with. It's irrational.

 

[Azadok2day]

You do realize that not all Christians are creationists, do you?

Evangelicals are notorious for their belief in creationism.

You do know that if you do not believe that God created the heavens and the earth and man you are not a Christian . You can call yourself a Christian but you're not.

A simple example you see i am a multi trillioniar , but because I do not have the paper to back it up , it is not so and my insisting will not make it so. The fact you do not believe all of Gods word , makes you a non Christian , no matter how you try to justify it in your brain you are ot a true christian . They honer God with their lips yet their heart is far from me.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not sure faith has any rational justification to begin with. It's irrational.

Faith is multifaceted. We tend to mean several different things at once when we speak of "faith", and we aren't always meaning the same thing when we use the word "faith".

Faith can mean "belief in something without evidence", but in its most basic sense faith just means "trust", and this is how it is used theologically when talking about "faith in Christ". Trust in Christ is more important than having beliefs about Christ; though there is certainly lots of overlap there. A small child can trust in Christ, without having all of theological minutia down (indeed, chances are none of us have that); indeed from a Lutheran POV even the newborn infant can have faith, since this radical trust in Christ is not human-derived but divinely given; imputed into us by God according to His grace through the Means given to us: Word and Sacrament.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You do know that if you do not believe that God created the heavens and the earth and man you are not a Christian . You can call yourself a Christian but you're not.

Agreed, but "Creationism" tends to mean something much more than believing that God is the "Maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen," it generally refers to a system of thought more prominently called "Young Earth Creationism", namely that Genesis 1 literally recounts a scientific-historical narration of the universe being formed in six 24-hour periods roughly six thousand years ago. This "Creationism" is not a prerequisite to being a Christian, and indeed has never been the official teaching of the Christian faith, as indicated by a healthy study of Christian history and broad examination of the Church today.

This "literal" reading of Genesis is but one of many possible views Christians may adhere to. There is no official Christian position on this.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ephraimanesti]

You inadvertently provided a nice illustration for my point.
" increased Faith leads to increased Knowledge."
If I understand this correctly, God has at this point already "revealed himself" to the individual and has even imparted him with knowledge. In other words, the individual had a personal revelation validating his belief in god. His experience was justified through personal experience and therefore he no longer needs faith to believe- his faith has been nullified through his experience.

MY BROTHER,

FAITH and KNOWLEDGE ARE TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN. If one grows, the other grows. Works in both directions.

You ask regarding "increased Faith leads to increased Knowledge". Faith, as St. Paul states, comes initially from hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). The written Word of God--the Bible--contains knowledge about God and His dealings with His Creation. So the process was for me: i heard the Word, judged it to be worthy of belief based on the knowledge i have gleaned from my reading, put my trust in what it said, and followed its directions regarding developing a direct relationship with God. i had faith that God was as presented and His directions to His creatures are valid and trustworthy as far as laying out a path which can be followed into the Light of God's Kingdom. i acted accordingly and my efforts were rewarded accordingly--i.e., God delivered what He promised.

As i follow the Path into the more perfect Light available to those who are obedient to God's expressed desires, things presented in written form in God's Word become visible experientially as i draw closer and closer to God. The more i see for myself, the greater my Faith becomes regarding the truth of those things which i have not yet seen for myself. As Paul testified, "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed unto Him until that day."(2 Timothy 1:12) The more knowledge i obtain regarding God, the more i have faith in His Word; the more i have faith in His Word, the more that faith engenders the realization of that which God's Word led me to believe would happen as a result of my acting out of my faith in Him. In spiritual matters, things are reversed from our normal way of thinking--BELIEVING IS SEEING, not the other way around.

This poses one paradox however. The definition of faith is belief that is not based on proof, but proof is by definition demonstrable. Personal revelation is not demonstrable and is therefore not proof.

Faith is indeed demonstrable. Faith can move mountains (Matthew 17:20). Personal revelation is likewise demonstrable as the testimonies of millions of believers over thousands of years amply verifies.

"As the relationship continues to grow, so does our Faith in God and our Knowledge of God."

How can you have varying degrees of faith? I'm more inclined to believe some things than others, but when it comes down to it I either believe something or I don't. For example, If my friend told me he just got a new spaceship, I would definitely not believe him based on faith or otherwise. If that same friend told me he got a new Ferrari, I would be more inclined to believe him than if he alleged he had a new spaceship, but deep down I still wouldn't believe it. How can you "sort of" have faith?

i "sort of had faith" for a good number of years--enough faith for me to not turn away from God, but not enough faith to bring about any meaningful changes in my life. However, i came across a Scripture which states, " 'Put me to the test in this,' says the Lord Almighty, 'and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.' "(Malachi 3:10) i did and He did. From then on it was just a case of taking Him at His Word and acting accordingly. He has never failed in a promise yet.

As an aside, it should be obvious that here is no way an atheist can make any judgments on either the KNOWLEDGE of God or the resulting FAITH in God, possessing neither, any more than a blind man can judge the beauty of a sunset or even verify its existence. Perhaps you could spend some time on your knees and get the Truth firsthand as i did.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[elopez]

Similar to what I said.

Yes but that would then mean faith and knowledge of Christianity are not mutually exclusive. That way, there is no reason to assume one is more important than the other.

 

[DCJazz]

Hmmm... it looks like you are treating knowledge as more important than faith.

Perhaps you should not take things out of context and read the entire statement, eh?
So much for the 'objective' view.

 

[talitha]

How so? Can you give an example?

I've been trying to figure out how to answer this question without authoring a book. What it boils down to this - whatever stands in opposition to the Truth is a lie. There is only one God, and that is Yahweh. All others are pretenders - liars who lead people to destruction.

 

[7angels]

let us look at it like this. paul had a very extensive knowledge of the word and yet he understood little of what it meant until his conversion. knowledge means little without wisdom. you cannot unlock the mysteries of God with just knowledge. abraham was not congratulated for his knowledge but for his faith and this fact is shown us through the bible.

without faith we cannot please God. without faith we cannot be saved. without faith we cannot receive the promises. the list goes on concerning how valuable faith is because through faith we receive all things.

if all things come by faith then i will get knowledge by choosing faith but i cannot get faith by choosing knowledge.

God bless

 

[someguy14]

MY FRIEND,

When dealing with God, increased Faith leads to increased Knowledge. Reason being that as our Faith and Trust in Him grows, He allows us to experience and apprehend more of His Glory. As the relationship continues to grow, so does our Faith in God and our Knowledge of God. This is a basic axiom of the Christian Faith.

i thank you, though, for the fun experience of listening to an atheist pontificate on the nature of faith.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Belief in God is knowledge and wisdom.

 

[98cwitr]

I don't find it feasible to separate the two.

 

[talitha]

cant - verb

• Talk hypocritically and sanctimoniously about something.
• Cause (something) to be in a slanting or oblique position; tilt: "he canted his head to look at the screen".

hmmmm.....

 

[drich0150]

Which is more important to you - faith in Jesus Christ or knowledge in the Bible and Christianity?

For me, I'd rather have knowledge about the Bible and Christianity. I would rather be a person knowledgeable about the Bible than a devout Christian who doesn't know what he believes in (yes, I have seen the news about them).

These two principles are not mutually exclusive. (One does not have to choose one or the other.)
These two principles work together and should never oppose one another.

 

[bling]

Knowledge is commendably and useful, but faith is required.
You can always go Back to the prodigal son story and get some insight (Luke 15: 11-32). The prodigal son had plenty of “knowledge” about the father, but that did not make him unselfish or humble. It is only when the prodigal son got himself left lonely in the pigsty, starving that he was willing to “trust” (faith in) the father’s Charity.