When does God stop taking...?

[Ash Crimson]

Assuming that it is, in fact, God who is doing the taking, when does he decide, enough is enough and stops taking from us?

Or if it's the devil or some other factor, then just disregard this post altogether then.

 

[chaoticfirefly]

Read the book of Job.

I think your answer will lie in there.

 

[Ash Crimson]

Read the book of Job.

I think your answer will lie in there.

I have, many times.

A literal reading of Job only furthers my feelings about God's character in this regard.

Care to actually give me your thoughts or no?

 

[chaoticfirefly]

I have, many times.

A literal reading of Job only furthers my feelings about God's character in this regard.

Care to actually give me your thoughts or no?

I was always taught that God only prepares, He only takes when you do thank Him for what He gives you.

For example, if you were to ask Him to help you get that new iPhone and He does, and you do not thank Him or praise Him, He will take it away, much like a parent would take away a child's toy.

That is what I was taught.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

like I've said before, there's no point in trying to figure all of this out. You'll either get an answer or you won't, and you probably won't. Best thing to do is just deal with it. Life is always going to be miserable, especially for a Christian. If you keep trying to figure out everything God does all the time you'll only make yourself even more miserable than before.

 

[chaoticfirefly]

like I've said before, there's no point in trying to figure all of this out. You'll either get an answer or you won't, and you probably won't. Best thing to do is just deal with it. Life is always going to be miserable, especially for a Christian. If you keep trying to figure out everything God does all the time you'll only make yourself even more miserable than before.

True fact.

 

[Ash Crimson]

I was always taught that God only prepares, He only takes when you do thank Him for what He gives you.

For example, if you were to ask Him to help you get that new iPhone and He does, and you do not thank Him or praise Him, He will take it away, much like a parent would take away a child's toy.

That is what I was taught.

Wow, that is a complete lie... at least, in my life anyway.

Something very important was taken from me today and I never once ceased to thank him for it, even today. Yet he still rent it from my hands.

So, I know that he does not work that way, at least in my life anyway.

 

[Ash Crimson]

like I've said before, there's no point in trying to figure all of this out. You'll either get an answer or you won't, and you probably won't. Best thing to do is just deal with it. Life is always going to be miserable, especially for a Christian. If you keep trying to figure out everything God does all the time you'll only make yourself even more miserable than before.

Then why worship God if this is how he treats us?

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

that's a good question. . . unfortunately there is no answer I can give for that one considering how I'm struggling with learning about God's nature myself. I honestly don't know anymore. Of course I still believe and what not but I still have much to learn.

 

[Ash Crimson]

that's a good question. . . unfortunately there is no answer I can give for that one considering how I'm struggling with learning about God's nature myself. I honestly don't know anymore. Of course I still believe and what not but I still have much to learn.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's faith. Mine is basically shot at this point anyway.

I just think, "How can people worship someone who mistreats them so badly?" Yeah, some Christians try and pin all the blame on the devil, but just as many, especially religious fanatics, love to blame God for all the evil they experience. The thing is though, THEY can cite bible references for God as the tormentor and afflictor of us - those who blame the devil have to ignore A LOT of scriptural evidence that says God is the one who ruins us, not satan.

 

[wayfaring man]

Well, it may be that sometimes what God has done/is doing, includes what He allowed/allows Satan to do, or have done.

And sometimes The Bible refers to what The Lord is doing/has done, with Satan's part taken out of the formula, so to speak.

Consider -

For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he sees the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. <-----> Exodus 12:23

The Lord is not "the destroyer", Satan is...but since The Lord, (in a controlled fashion),"unleashed him", it can be seen as His doing...though not actually His specific doing.

The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep. <-----> John 10:10+11 (Words of Jesus)

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; <-----> Hebrews 2:14

Perhaps another way to look at it, is that God has set some things as being "off limit", for man, and God placed a roaring lion which seeks to kill and destroy, in those off limit places, so that, as long as we stay in our rightful/obedient place, we are safe...but if we wander too far, for too long...we might just be devoured.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour: <-----> 1st Peter 5:8

Hope this helps to clarify.

wm

 

[Ash Crimson]

Right, so God controls satan, and thus, evil and suffering.

Great.

 

[wayfaring man]

Would you rather it be another way ?

 

[Ash Crimson]

Would you rather it be another way ?

Yes.

It's actually quite horrifying, when you think of it.

Essentially, it makes God evil.

 

[wayfaring man]

Yes.

It's actually quite horrifying, when you think of it.

Essentially, it makes God evil.

I disagree. It only means that God is over all, even the evil.

The LORD has made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. <-----> Proverbs 16:4

 

[Ash Crimson]

I disagree. It only means that God is over all, even the evil.

The LORD has made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. <-----> Proverbs 16:4

If God creates, wills and causes evil, then by definition, he would have to be evil. There's no other way around it logically.

 

[wayfaring man]

If God creates, wills and causes evil, then by definition, he would have to be evil. There's no other way around it logically.

Sure there is - God has a primary will. And a secondary will.

His primary will speaks on this wise -

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. <-----> 2nd Peter 3:9

And His secondary will emphasizes -

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. <-----> Luke 13:1-3

 

[Ash Crimson]

Sure there is - God has a primary will. And a secondary will.

His primary will speaks on this wise -

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. <-----> 2nd Peter 3:9

And His secondary will emphasizes -

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. <-----> Luke 13:1-3

Oh, so he has a split personality?

Wonderful.

I'm guessing you're a calvinist.

If that's so, can you tell me why I should want to follow this God who wills my life to be garbage then?

 

[wayfaring man]

Oh, so he has a split personality?

Wonderful.

I'm guessing you're a calvinist.

If that's so, can you tell me why I should want to follow this God who wills my life to be garbage then?

Not at all the case.

If you had a house guest with which you desired to enjoy the company of, while co-existing in a peaceable manner, and that house guest honored the rules of your house in a respectful and appreciative way...all would be well. Such is God's primary will.

But if your house guest had little or no respect for your household and proceeded to cause much trouble and hurt for the rest of the household, and would not listen to your many kind reproofs, you would have to banish them from your household to preserve the joy and peace thereof. Which is God's secondary will.

 

[seeingeyes]

Read the book of Job.

I think your answer will lie in there.

For example, if you were to ask Him to help you get that new iPhone and He does, and you do not thank Him or praise Him, He will take it away, much like a parent would take away a child's toy.

This is exactly what the Book of Job does not say. What you stated here is nearly a summary of what Job's friends were trying to tell him - and God was not too happy about it. Give it another read.

If God creates, wills and causes evil, then by definition, he would have to be evil. There's no other way around it logically.

Well, if we say he creates both good and evil, then technically he would be neutral? Or perhaps I've hung out with too many D&D players!

Assuming that it is, in fact, God who is doing the taking, when does he decide, enough is enough and stops taking from us?

Your question seems to be "Why is God making me suffer?" It's a good, honest question and folks have spilled millions of gallons of ink over the centuries trying to answer it. If you tried to study just this one question for the rest of your life, you could never finish all the books written on it.

So let's just skip over all the well-meaning (but insufficient) answers that christians usually give. (We suffer because we are being tested, we suffer because we are being disciplined, we suffer from the natural consequences of sin, etc.) Let's get to the meat.

Why does God suffer?

I have yet to find a book written on this topic. The idea that God suffers at all is controversial in most circles, but it is in fact at the heart of the christian faith.

It is easy enough to conceptualize a God who allows/causes suffering for His creation, but is Himself immune to it. He might be a callous God, but He is easy to imagine. But who is this God who suffers at the hand of His creation? Why would He let bad things happen to Himself?

The truth is that the ways of God really are foolishness to the world, and when I say "the world", I'm not talking about the "unsaved" - I mean everybody, christian or otherwise, who was born on this planet at some point.

Think about it, as christians we claim to follow a God who sees a convicted, unrepentant criminal on death row, and decides to put His own son in the electric chair to take that guy's place. Who the hell would do that?! There is no religious or philosophical organization on earth that would commend that course of action as "good". And yet, that's exactly what we claim God did.

So who is this God anyway?