What's the big deal about abstaining from alcohol?

[Serendipity..]

Hi guys.

As a christian I have regularly had a glass of wine every few days or an occasional beer for many years with dinner. In the last few months I have abstained all together with a view to stay that way (just because I can). I actually think its a bit boring not having an occasional glass of wine and I dont know what the big deal is from the pro abstinence christian crowd around me real life.

Health wise It doesn't make any difference as I weigh the same and feel the same with or without and probably the same spiritually.

Has anybody else felt pressured by other christians to abstain from controlled minimal drinking of alcohol to later question what the big deal is?

 

[Follower3]

I think it is ok to have a glass of wine a couple of times a week as you said. But what do I know?

 

[Serendipity..]

I think it is ok to have a glass of wine a couple of times a week as you said. But what do I know?

I think same as you.

 

[Bella Vita]

You are free in Christ to have a drink here or there or not at all the choice is yours. I personally only drink a few times a year and I never get drunk of course. Do what you want and what your personal conviction leads you to.

 

[Shattered-Reflections]

Hi guys.
... I dont know what the big deal is from the pro abstinence christian crowd around me real life.

Some of that has to do with traditional creeds, but in the last decade I've seen a lot of anti-alcohol views from both Christian and non-Christian on the academic/psychology side. This has a lot to with alcohol related crimes & deaths, drunk-driving, alcohol abuse, addictions, and some medical (liver, brain, weight, pregnancy). There's also a lot of people who have hurtful histories whether themselves, friends, or family and alcohol represents something very destructive to them or makes them uncomfortable. Some of it might be fear and ignorance too, if poor use and bad examples is all one sees... then it may not be possible to believe there is a healthy way to partake. And a few snobs :0)

Has anybody else felt pressured by other christians to abstain from controlled minimal drinking of alcohol to later question what the big deal is?

I grew up in a family that not only discouraged alcohol consumption but also had alcoholism in the family, plus my churches either looked down on it or were very strict. So I guess that would count as pressure to abstain, at least there was a stigma and I felt uncomfortable around it. But I never really cared to drink and I actually don't care for the smell of most alcohols or wines. I've since learned from scripture that it is okay to drink and I have had vanilla and peppermint alcohol in coffee/hot-chocolate.

I think people can go over-board thinking that everyone should abstain or that it's inherently evil, but I completely understand people who want to abstain or are uncomfortable by it. I don't really question, "what's the big deal?" because I've seen first hand how alcohol can destroy people and abuse others 2nd hand. It's hard for me to not see those images or be reminded when I see others drinking, even though I believe drinking is perfectly fine. Anything can be used in destructive ways and alcohol is one of those things where it's easier to do so. So it is very good that people are cautious and wise about these things.

With all that said, a glass of wine every few days and an occasional beer sounds rather minimal to me. Every body has a different tolerance and conviction about it, so everyone needs to be wise on the subject. There are some people who shouldn't drink and some people who can in good conscious.

 

[Serendipity..]

Actually I think there might be more people addicted to social media and the internet (causing problems) than having issues with alcohol these days and both can be a habit hard to break.

I can take it eave a beer but no iPhone is torture.

 

[boogalaboogala]

Hi guys.

As a christian I have regularly had a glass of wine every few days or an occasional beer for many years with dinner. In the last few months I have abstained all together with a view to stay that way (just because I can). I actually think its a bit boring not having an occasional glass of wine and I dont know what the big deal is from the pro abstinence christian crowd around me real life.

Health wise It doesn't make any difference as I weigh the same and feel the same with or without and probably the same spiritually.

Has anybody else felt pressured by other christians to abstain from controlled minimal drinking of alcohol to later question what the big deal is?

i think you summed it up best when you called life boring without a drink..
if you need a drink to make life a little more exciting. then you have a problem.. i wasn't the one that said it.. you are..
i can have a drink any time i like also.. but, i just never want one.. but, i am sure that if i have one, i am not going to be sent to hell for it..
you do whatever you need to friend. i will certainly not condemn anyone that has a drink, or smokes a big fatty.. i am not saying either are wise..
i firmly believe that some things that are good for some are not good for others..
blessings

 

[Serendipity..]

i think you summed it up best when you called life boring without a drink..
if you need a drink to make life a little more exciting. then you have a problem.. i wasn't the one that said it.. you are..

Yeah I got a boring life maybe but I don't drink to escape it, its just a handy option in a social situation with friends if inclined. For a weird reason I promised myself never to do it again and I am getting used to one less option in life.

 

[Shattered-Reflections]

Actually I think there might be more people addicted to social media and the internet (causing problems) than having issues with alcohol these days and both can be a habit hard to break.

I can take it eave a beer but no iPhone is torture.

True, most everyone uses it so by default more people will have issues with it. The internet has many of it's own ilks and addictions. Which is why I said anything can be destructive, anything can be overused, anything can become an idol. But everything should be measured to itself and to not others things. Something that's relatively less addicting, relatively less influencing, relatively less engrossing, relatively less destructive is STILL something that's controlling you. Comparisons and relativity are poor measures of how bad something is, because you can make just about anything look good if you compare it. Chocolate ice cream isn't bad in comparison to smoking, but that doesn't mean ice cream isn't a problem for some people.

If something is causing you to stumble or hindering your run towards eternal life, shed it off. Not everything secular is bad and there are many good delights in the world, but anything can be slowing us down or enslaving us. We need to be good stewards. We all have to assess ourselves and be honest.

Now that I look again, you said alcohol made no difference, but that life was also a bit more boring. So which is it, is your life the same or less than? And even though I said there's nothing wrong with alcohol and your pervious amounts sounded fine, you make a point about how the internet is worse. I say this lovingly as a sister.... you seem like you're defending a bit too much when everyone agreed with you, which makes me wonder if you don't feel convicted about alcohol but don't want to accept there might a problem or need for change. I know if I start giving too many reasons in defense, I'm holding to something too tightly. If you know you're not doing wrong and you know you're saved by grace you don't need anyone's validation, but if you're unsure you need to seriously listen to your doubts. Your doubts might be right or unfound, but explore them and understand them. We all have to stand before God and give a personal account. It doesn't really matter what I do or what I say, can you stand transparent before God in good conscious?

If I'm wrong, then just ignore this. It really makes no difference to me what you do in your life, I don't believe alcohol is bad no more than pain killers or chocolate icecream, but be careful and honest when evaluating yourself. Satan's greatest lie is that there is nothing wrong with us, so he can keep us where he wants us.

 

[Serendipity..]

True, most everyone uses it so by default more people will have issues with it. The internet has many of it's own ilks and addictions. Which is why I said anything can be destructive, anything can be overused, anything can become an idol. But everything should be measured to itself and to not others things. Something that's relatively less addicting, relatively less influencing, relatively less engrossing, relatively less destructive is STILL something that's controlling you. Comparisons and relativity are poor measures of how bad something is, because you can make just about anything look good if you compare it. Chocolate ice cream isn't bad in comparison to smoking, but that doesn't mean ice cream isn't a problem for some people.

If something is causing you to stumble or hindering your run towards eternal life, shed it off. Not everything secular is bad and there are many good delights in the world, but anything can be slowing us down or enslaving us. We need to be good stewards. We all have to assess ourselves and be honest.

Now that I look again, you said alcohol made no difference, but that life was also a bit more boring. So which is it, is your life the same or less than? And even though I said there's nothing wrong with alcohol and your pervious amounts sounded fine, you make a point about how the internet is worse. I say this lovingly as a sister.... you seem like you're defending a bit too much when everyone agreed with you, which makes me wonder if you don't feel convicted about alcohol but don't want to accept there might a problem or need for change. I know if I start giving too many reasons in defense, I'm holding to something too tightly. If you know you're not doing wrong and you know you're saved by grace you don't need anyone's validation, but if you're unsure you need to seriously listen to your doubts. Your doubts might be right or unfound, but explore them and understand them. We all have to stand before God and give a personal account. It doesn't really matter what I do or what I say, can you stand transparent before God in good conscious?

If I'm wrong, then just ignore this. It really makes no difference to me what you do in your life, I don't believe alcohol is bad no more than pain killers or chocolate icecream, but be careful and honest when evaluating yourself. Satan's greatest lie is that there is nothing wrong with us, so he can keep us where he wants us.

I don't drink at all.

What this whole thread is about not alcohol being right or wrong but around me real life I have a few people who look down on those that drink and mention the virtues of abstinence etc. I think I thought something good was going to happen after months of not drinking like some spiritual or physical improvement but I am still waiting and hoping cause nothing has changed..

Have you ever wondered to yourself "lf God would bless me if I never touch that again?" Whatever it is you felt led to give up.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

I don't drink at all.

What this whole thread is about not alcohol being right or wrong but around me real life I have a few people who look down on those that drink and mention the virtues of abstinence etc. I think I thought something good was going to happen after months of not drinking like some spiritual or physical improvement but I am still waiting and hoping cause nothing has changed..

Have you ever wondered to yourself "lf God would bless me if I never touch that again?" Whatever it is you felt led to give up.

God has already blessed every reborn believer; to receive the results of His blessing we must set our heart to be led by Him, and to not be led by ourselves or by other people.

drinking alcohol is like washing hands...

Mat 15:1-2 KJV
(1) Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
(2) Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Mat 15:10-20 KJV
(10) And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
(11) Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
(12) Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
(13) But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
(14) Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
(15) Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
(16) And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
(17) Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
(18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
(19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
(20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

neither does drinking alcohol; think about this little known scripture:

Deu 14:22-27 KJV
(22) Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
(23) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
(24) And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
(25) Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
(26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
(27) And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

 

[spr]

Having a drink isn't a problem unless it's troubling someone in your life. Remember that verse where Paul said something like: If eating meat or drinking wine causes my brother to stumble I will eat no meat nor drink wine while the earth stands.

 

[Sketcher]

I have, but this was a person who did not have a solid grasp on Scripture and did not care. Fortunately, he repented of his divisive attitude.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I don't drink myself but see nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, but the problem is what IS moderation when it comes to drinking alcohol for a Christian? It is one thing to have an occasional drink and enjoy a good wine with your food but the problem arises when it become addictive and destructive to your life usually either because you end up using it as a drug to escape problems or because you are chemically and/or psychologially predisposed to addiction to it. Christians (early Jews) drank a lot of wine but I don't think it was strong alchohol for the most part and I think it was because at the time they didn't have fridges and a way to have juice all year around nor in some places was the water that good tasting perhaps contained biological contaminants too.

I tend to see two types of drinkers:
1)Those who enjoy it at times but don't really "need" it.
2)Those who have problems that they find alcohol a solution for and that are alcoholics on some level.
The first type can drink whenever and not (for the most part) ever get drunk and go a month without thinking of drinking if needed while the second part has to have alcohol around ready just in case they desire some and end up drunk often..

If alcohol becomes a stumbling block in your Christian walk time for you to drop it altogether but an occasional beer with the guys and a glass of wine at dinner is not going to be an issue. It is those drinking several bottles of wine, hard liquor, a case of beer in a day that it can be a problem with.

 

[seashale76]

Psalm 104:14-15
You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart.

I Timothy 5:23
No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.

Moderation for the win. Unfortunately, some people are judgmental and assume everyone who drinks alcohol is going to drink to excess and will have no self-control. They're also encouraged by the cultural influence/effects of the Temperance Movement, even today. I've seen people become so ridiculous as to not eat out at chain restaurants that have bars in them, and dump BBQ sauce down the drain if it has bourbon as an ingredient. I should hope they don't use mouthwash either, if they're going to go to such lengths. These folks will go to even greater lengths to deny wine as an element in communion- and attempt to claim the miracle at Cana wasn't.

Steer yourself away from drunkenness- but honestly- the tee-totaling crowd doesn't have any more special grace or righteousness in their lives than a Christian who has the occasional drink.

 

[Brianlear]

I'm more concerned about the fact that you claim to "have a boring life". That's so sad! Why is it boring?

 

[Serendipity..]

Psalm 104:14-15
You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart.

I Timothy 5:23
No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.

Moderation for the win. Unfortunately, some people are judgmental and assume everyone who drinks alcohol is going to drink to excess and will have no self-control. They're also encouraged by the cultural influence/effects of the Temperance Movement, even today. I've seen people become so ridiculous as to not eat out at chain restaurants that have bars in them, and dump BBQ sauce down the drain if it has bourbon as an ingredient. I should hope they don't use mouthwash either, if they'reI already going to go to such lengths. These folks will go to even greater lengths to deny wine as an element in communion- and attempt to claim the miracle at Cana wasn't.

Steer yourself away from drunkenness- but honestly- the tee-totaling crowd doesn't have any more special grace or righteousness in their lives than a Christian who has the occasional drink.

Reading your Bible and understanding what's said in it sure saves a lot extra unneeded rules (to try to work your way into heaven with).

I already knew its ok to drink wine before I started the thread. About 15 years ago I studied the bible to see if it's ok to drink alcoholic drinks and it is ok done to to acceptable limits.


Regarding the temperance movement, do you know what is really funny?

Ancient civilisations and Egyptians lived on beer as a staple daily food, and guess what ancient israelites did too!

Numbers 28
7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the Lord at the sanctuary. 8 Offer the second lamb at twilight, along with the same kind of grain offering and drink offering that you offer in the morning. This is a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.


Your bible and salvation..brought to you by some people who drank beer and wine regularly a long time ago.

 

[Serendipity..]

Psalm 104:14-15
You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man,
o

Wine and grapes often gets mentioned in positive ways. God must like them.

 

[Shattered-Reflections]

What this whole thread is about not alcohol being right or wrong but around me real life I have a few people who look down on those that drink and mention the virtues of abstinence etc. I think I thought something good was going to happen after months of not drinking like some spiritual or physical improvement but I am still waiting and hoping cause nothing has changed..

Have you ever wondered to yourself "lf God would bless me if I never touch that again?" Whatever it is you felt led to give up.

People shouldn't look down on you for drinking. Plain and simple. All you can do is point out scripture in love and gentleness if they insist you're wrong. But if they want to abstain, they are doing so to honor God so let them. Respect their choices, just as they should respect yours. I'm sorry to hear this is such an issue for you.

Nothing is going to change unless drinking was a problem for you (health, addiction, money, socially, etc). It could lead opportunities or blessings down the road, but who can say?

I guess that's something I've never wondered about. I don't give something up thinking or hoping God will bless me. I give something up because I know it's hurting me or my relationship with God. It might bless me, but that's not really my concern I suppose.

 

[Inkachu]

The "big deal" is that alcohol kills thousands upon thousands of people each year, and leaves behind wrecked families, orphaned children, widows, parents burying their kids, and untold amounts of destroyed property. Alcohol contributes to thousands of cases of violence and crime each year. Alcohol causes serious health problems that often lead to death. Alcohol causes lapses in judgement, resulting in risky behaviors, especially in young people, including drug use, rape, premarital sex, drunk driving, and more.

Are you hurting anyone by drinking the occasional glass of wine with dinner? Not directly. But every time you purchase a bottle or glass of wine, where is your money going? To the company that produces that wine. Chances are, they produce other alcoholic products as well. Is your dollar funding the next bottle of beer or liquor that a man will drink and then start to beat his wife and kids?

It's up to everyone's conscience to decide whether or not they think consuming alcohol is "OK" or not. I choose to abstain. Not because anyone has pressured me to, but because I choose to see what the industry survives on, and it's not your glass of wine; it's the addict who can't stop purchasing his poison.