What would you say?

[the.Sheepdog]

I have a work friend who is a citizen now but came 7 yrs ago from Haiti. He believes in the supernatural strongly for sure! Anyway, he says that God not only allowed Hitler to kill 6 million Jews but helped him do it and made it possible. I asked why he would say that and he says God was forcing the jews back to Israel!

I cannot tell you how strongly I disagree with him but lack the words to tell him as simply as he needs to understand.

What would you say? Thanks

 

[pinetree]

I have a work friend who is a citizen now but came 7 yrs ago from Haiti. He believes in the supernatural strongly for sure! Anyway, he says that God not only allowed Hitler to kill 6 million Jews but helped him do it and made it possible. I asked why he would say that and he says God was forcing the jews back to Israel!

I cannot tell you how strongly I disagree with him but lack the words to tell him as simply as he needs to understand.

What would you say? Thanks

boy...I guess folks will need time to think on that one...boy....

 

[the.Sheepdog]

yea, I hear ya. all I could think to say was that I have faith in the scriptural passage that what was intended for evil will in some way be used for good.

 

[Floatingaxe]

As Hitler was filled with Satan, I highly doubt God would be helping him with his agenda of destruction against God's people. What a diabolical thought! A person like that doesn't deserve but a shake of the head in disbelief. I would just tell him I'll pray for him and I'd do it.

 

[pinetree]

yea, I hear ya. all I could think to say was that I have faith in the scriptural passage that what was intended for evil will in some way be used for good.

does he use any scripture to support his views?

 

[the.Sheepdog]

he says that in the old testament God empowered Nebakanezer to punish old testament Jews and says that God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow meaning he was, is, and will always be a God of punishment.

I just looked at him with my mouth open.

 

[pinetree]

he says that in the old testament God empowered Nebakanezer to punish old testament Jews and says that God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow meaning he was, is, and will always be a God of punishment.

I just looked at him with my mouth open.

God is the same...

BUT the covenant has changed...

That might be a good route to go..

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Yes I did mention the new covenant. He just sticks to the same God is the same. He comes from a country where zombies walk and voodoo rules the government and all the business. An angry God seems easier to believe I guess.

 

[pinetree]

Yes I did mention the new covenant. He just sticks to the same God is the same. He comes from a country where zombies walk and voodoo rules the government and all the business. An angry God seems easier to believe I guess.

yup..

It's not easy,and really if you think about it,someone can find a verse to support almost anything really...

Some thought when 911 happened,it was a judgement.

I think Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell said that on tv,the day it happened.

Could just be one of those things to let go of..

 

[nephilimiyr]

Yes I did mention the new covenant. He just sticks to the same God is the same. He comes from a country where zombies walk and voodoo rules the government and all the business. An angry God seems easier to believe I guess.

The only thing that I can think of right now that might make a difference is tell him that although God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, he dealt with the problem of sin and unbelief 2000 years ago and no longer punishes Israel, although he may have lifted his hand of protection from them.

It's true that God made happen certain things to the Israelites in the OT but since Jesus did his work on the cross, God no longer deals with sin because as far as He's concerned sin was dealt with on the cross.

You might want to try this verse out on him and see what he says.
Matthew 21:43, Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

God no longer deals with Israel as a nation. Yes He is in control but when He lifts his hand of protection over a nation, anything goes really. That is what I have seen in evidence through out the history of the Jews since Jesus left this earth. Because they rejected him, they are no longer the favored ones, only believers in Christ are his favored. He is no longer obligated to treat them as his children and that is what this friend of your seems to believe. That is, that God is still treating them as bad children who He needs to punish.

I don't know, might be worth a try.

 

[lismore]

What would you say? Thanks

God prophecied anti-Semitism through the prophet Jeremiah its true:

"18": And I will persecute them with the sword, with the famine, and with the pestilence, and will deliver them to be removed to all the kingdoms of the earth, to be a curse, and an astonishment, and an hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them. {Jer 29}

But he also promised they would return to their own land, never to be uprooted again. However the prophet Zechariah says all nations will turn against Jerusalem in these last days and attack the Jews, when they turn back to their God he will save them.

 

[lismore]

God no longer deals with Israel as a nation.

Jeremiah 31:

35 This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:

36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"
declares the LORD,
"will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me."

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Lismore brother, I appreciate your thoughts and know you are sincere. I do wonder how that helps with my brother at work though.

 

[lucas122478]

hello, I'm just introducing myself I'm Justin

 

[lismore]

Lismore brother, I appreciate your thoughts and know you are sincere. I do wonder how that helps with my brother at work though.

Hello

God prophecied there would be anti-Semitism, but that does not mean he caused the holocaust.

God works for the good in all circumstances, Romans 8:28, but that does not mean he caused all circumstances.

Its bad men that caused a lot of the sufferings of the Jews. Look at how they were even given their land in the 1917 Balfour Declaration, but Britain broke its word.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

thank you. Thats better for my friend. One must empathized with Haitians however as they live such a sparse life. Death is cheap and easy there. Satan pretty much rules there in the open. Even born again Haitians are still afraid of the Voodoo. The last dozen Presidents have been Voodoo priests. Where missionaries abound they are using real miracles to combat the evil. Please pray for Haiti and those that escaper and find Jesus. Thank you!

 

[lismore]

hello, I'm just introducing myself I'm Justin

Hey Justin. Welcome to the forum

 

[nephilimiyr]

Jeremiah 31:

35 This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:

36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"
declares the LORD,
"will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me."

Ah yes, ok, maybe that was the wrong way to say it on my part. Still, the way I have seen the histroy of the Jews since Jesus created his Church is not of God punishing his children and instigating evil against them, like He seemed to do in the OT, but that He has lifted his hand of protection over them.

Ultimately, the end times Jews will be favored again by his hand of protection, the 144,000, and will partake of their inheritance.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Neph, If I remember my study, which has been a while, more than 144K are saved in Israel. The 144,000 are those young men mostly jewish saved from the 12 tribes (12,000 from each tribe), who end up spreading the Gospel one last time throught the world. So many more than just 144,000 are saved and received their inheritance!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph, If I remember my study, which has been a while, more than 144K are saved in Israel. The 144,000 are those young men mostly jewish saved from the 12 tribes (12,000 from each tribe), who end up spreading the Gospel one last time throught the world. So many more than just 144,000 are saved and received their inheritance!

That's true, I know that, I just used the 144,000 as a reference to show that in the end times God will once again put his hand of protection and favor over the Jews.

So what do you think of my general statement though, do you think it will help your friend?