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what power or authority should pastor have within the church?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by schir, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. schir

    schir Newbie

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    what is the role of "Pastor" and should he do what is right according to human or according to what our Lord, Jesus said? i am sad to see that even pastor seem to change once they have the positon and think that they are now above what God plan for his children.
     
  2. MrJim

    MrJim Well-Known Member

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    The baptist churches I've been part of (Southern/American/Reformed) the pastor is subject to the deacons~they're the shepherd but not the ultimate boss.
     
  3. jehoiakim

    jehoiakim Servant

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    Of course they should do what God says over man...

    but sadly, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Because all mankind is totally deprived we need a system of checks and balances, the elders need to be strong enough to hold the pastor accountable as well as support him and vica versa. Accountability is really missing in a lot of churches and in many those that have authority are more often yes men to a stronger leader, by default usually the pastor. Even if the pastor has great ideas and is led by the spirit, they are human and faulted, they need input from other people. One the other hand the elders and the congregation need to encourage the pastor and real take to heart what he has to say if they really believe he was called to lead their church.

    From your original question however I gather there is more information you could give us to a specific situation. While you have not provided the details it seems you support what the pastor is trying to do believing it is Godly and the congregation is resisting, sadly this is also a common problem because people don't like change are are afraid to step out in faith. If you can give us more details maybe we can give you ideas on how you can support the pastor
     
  4. prophecyistrue

    prophecyistrue Newbie

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    Well since the pastors pay is defined by how many people come in and give their money, Its just plain logic that a Pastor is going to try and keep everyone happy and feeling good
     
  5. stephenbooth

    stephenbooth Newbie

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    when i think of this, these thoughts/verse come to mind


    New International Version (©1984)
    "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    "Don't let anyone call you 'Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.
    English Standard Version (©2001)
    But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.
    International Standard Version (©2008)
    "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' because you have only one teacher, and all of you are brothers.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    But don't make others call you Rabbi, because you have only one teacher, and you are all followers.
    King James Bible
    But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
    American King James Version
    But be not you called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all you are brothers.
    American Standard Version
    But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.
    Bible in Basic English
    But you may not be named Teacher: for one is your teacher, and you are all brothers.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren.
    Darby Bible Translation
    But ye, be not ye called Rabbi; for one is your instructor, and all ye are brethren.
    English Revised Version
    But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
    Weymouth New Testament
    "As for you, do not accept the title of 'Rabbi,' for one alone is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. World English Bible
    But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Young's Literal Translation
    'And ye -- ye may not be called Rabbi, for one is your director -- the Christ, and all ye are brethren;

    and i wonder how this verse may relate


    New International Version (©1984)
    It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    As it is written in the Scriptures, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
    English Standard Version (©2001)
    It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
    International Standard Version (©2008)
    It is written in the Prophets, 'And all of them will be taught by God.' Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned anything comes to me.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    The prophets wrote, 'God will teach everyone.' Those who do what they have learned from the Father come to me.
    King James Bible
    It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
    American King James Version
    It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes to me.
    American Standard Version
    It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me.
    Bible in Basic English
    The writings of the prophets say, And they will all have teaching from God. Everyone whose ears have been open to the teaching of the Father comes to me.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me.
    Darby Bible Translation
    It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every one that has heard from the Father himself, and has learned of him, comes to me;
    English Revised Version
    It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught from God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned from the Father, cometh to me.
    Weymouth New Testament
    It stands written in the Prophets, 'And they shall all of them be taught by God'. Every one who listens to the Father and learns from Him comes to me.
    World English Bible
    It is written in the prophets, 'They will all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me.
    Young's Literal Translation
    it is having been written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God; every one therefore who heard from the Father, and learned, cometh to me;

    so i ponder it in such a way. (loose references)

    - He is the true light

    - as long as i am in the world, i am the light of the world

    - abide in me, and i will abide in you

    - you are the light of the world

    so i consider some may say, "we are told to teach all nations"

    so i ponder. in my words (one who doesnt understand all things)

    It is Christs ministry, we share in Christs ongoing ministry , teach all nations, dont be called teacher.



    what do you think?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  6. stephenbooth

    stephenbooth Newbie

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    double post
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  7. Goinheix

    Goinheix New Member

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    According to human or according to our Lord? There is two things with the same name: pastor. We call that omonimos.
    One thing is the pastor from the NT point of view. In the NT chruch it was established pastors to wach over the brothers; to keep them in the right path and doctrine. Those are brothers apointed by the Holy Spirit to to an specific work in the Body of Christ. They are members to wich the Holy Spirit gives an specific function as pastors.
    A different thing is a profesional that went to a school to obtain a degrre as pastor. A professional that is hired by a organization to take care of a brach. Some denominations like to call them pastors.

    To wich pastor are you refering to?
    The pastor apointed by the organization has as much authority as the internal rules gives to him.
    The pastor apoited by the Holy Spirit is a servant (slave) of the brothers.
     
  8. makingchristiandisciples

    makingchristiandisciples Making Christian Disciples

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    The church belongs to Christ, as she is His bride. He runs the place. A pastor works under the leadership and guidance of the Holy Spirit to advance the work of the ministry, whether it's teaching, visiting the sick, or performing a wedding ceremony. As a former SBC Associate Pastor, I can tell you that most pastors do not abuse their authority. The ones who do give a bad name to everyone else. I was in the ministry for 10 years and I never noticed anyone trying to grow the church to increase his salary like someone mentioned above. Pastors aren't to be absolute authorities, but they are an authority. So are other staff members and Sunday School teachers.

    I think someone appropriately mentioned above that accountability is important, and I agree with that. Everyone needs to be accountable to someone. I think the best policy is to trust a pastor unless he gives you a reason not to. God bless!
     
  9. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Pastors are servant's to the sheep. Some are gifted in teaching, some are gifted preachers. Either way their roll is to glorify christ through the teaching and feeding their members the inspired word. Build up your people don't convict them to misery. Our lord told peter feed my sheep not shear them till they bleed. Their are Deacon possessed churches and ruling the deacons are their wives. In these churches the pastor is a figure head.Sometimes they can study and present a good act on Sunday but they are not spirit lead. A pastor that is truly called is the authority in the workings of the church. He obeys gods word and is lead by the holy spirit which is infallible. A preacher or pastor must truly be called otherwise it is destructive and sometimes demonic. One way to tell if somethings wrong the church doesn't grow new people come but they soon leave your left with the same little click for years. Neither hot nor cold to be spewed out loosely quoted they are in their comfort zone. A pastor needs the authority to make changes if needed. Just my opinion god bless
     
  10. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    You would be suprised just how many baptists believe that the pastor should have complete and total control of eveything in church. You'd be suprised just how many believe a pastor should be allowed to "Lord over" the church.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  11. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Moderator Supporter Staff on LOA

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    "Pastors are servant's to the sheep."

    ^^^Nail on the head....
     
  12. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi schir,

    The power, authority and wisdom to teach and follow the truth.

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  13. Don Oscar

    Don Oscar Newbie

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    You are mixin two different things. First you are talking of the pastors as in the NT. Then you are talking of the pastors as professionals. Those two are not the same. You are missleading the brothers saying that one is the other.
     
  14. Don Oscar

    Don Oscar Newbie

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    Again. You semms to believe that the person infront of the church is a NT pastor. He is a servant of a private organization; a professional performing his job for a salary. Do not mix things up.
     
  15. Panevino

    Panevino Newbie

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    Thought this may be relevant

    Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,17 Which may go out before them, and which may go in before them, and which may lead them out, and which may bring them in; that the congregation of the LORD be not as sheep which have no shepherd.18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom [is] the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;19 And set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation; and give him a charge in their sight.20 And thou shalt put [some] of thine honour upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.21 And he shall stand before Eleazar the priest, who shall ask [counsel] for him after the judgment of Urim before the LORD: at his word shall they go out, and at his word they shall come in, [both] he, and all the children of Israel with him, even all the congregation.22 And Moses did as the LORD commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:23 And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.
     
  16. Don Oscar

    Don Oscar Newbie

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    Very good. Your quotation is very enlighting. It is about God, not the humans, who set a man... That is not the case of the man we see and listen every sunday from the pulpit. He has been apointed by the high rank administration of the church; not by God. Very good and enlighting.
     
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