What is "White Privilege" in american politics and law?

[RDKirk]

What you've described is not white privilege, that's hatred and racism. But I think it would be foolish to assume none of the boomer generation could have a change of heart, or that those who don't wouldn't teach their Gen X children to continue to carry the torch of racism after they're dead and gone

Ken

What I described is not "white privilege" per se, but the reason it persists.

Who said "none?" What is it with people on the Internet who seem not to understand the concepts of "bell curve" and "outliers?"

And if you will note, I largely ignored the X-gen an specifically stated "...and Millennials are in control." Now, if your argument is that "the torch of racism" will be carried forever, then you don't have an anti-White Privilege argument to make until whites are no longer the culture group (a term that encompasses both race and ethnicity in America) that hold most of the political and economic power in this country.

 

[LyraJean]

Your black friends are just as entitled to their personal opinions as my white friends are. And since your black friends haven't lived the lives of my white friends, I seriously doubt they could tell my white friends that their experiences aren't real or substantial to the point where my friends would listen to them or take them seriously. In fact, neither can you or anyone else who denies the existence of white privilege. It's the whole "walk a mile in my shoes" kind of thing. And for the record, there are studies and reports online available discussing the existence of white privilege. You're more than welcome to look them up if you so choose. And for the sake of my sanity and for the sake of harmony, I'm no longer going to argue with you about this and keep going round and round over it. This is my last response to you because it's pointless to keep arguing.

Then equally you shouldn't dismiss the opinions of white people who have said they never experienced this white privilege because I have yet to experience it. I noticed a few other white people have not experienced it either. I will give you a couple of examples. I worked at a fast food restaurant with a black manager. There were both black and white workers. A new dress code rule came down the pipeline which stated that nose rings are no longer allowed. The day after this rule took affect a black girl wore a nose ring nothing was said. A second black girl came in with her nose ring and again nothing was said. So the next day one of my white coworkers wore a rhinestone sticker so it looked like a nose ring. The moment she stepped behind the counter she was asked to remove her nose ring.

Later that year, I quit the job by walking out. A black girl was fired from the job for stealing from the register. She was caught red handed. The next year I was looking for work and applied to the same place because I didn't have a lot of options. I was not hired. But the girl who was caught stealing was re-hired. Now I'm not saying they should have re-hired me because I did walk out but then on that same notion they shouldn't have re-hired the girl who was caught stealing either.

I think it just a new term for racism which does exist. But the new definition is if you are white you are racist and your opinion does not matter. If you are not white it is impossible to be racist and all white people are automatically racist unless they agree with you 100% but not too much otherwise they are accused of cultural appropriation.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't know why this would be the case. Every young generation starts off thinking that they'll change the world, right all wrongs, etc., and they end up just like the one before them. For millennials, your parents may have grooved out at Woodstock and protested against the Vietnam war or whatever, but by the time they were raising you, they were just as much supporters of the two party political system and either Reagan's, Bush Sr.'s, Clinton's, Bush Jr's., or now Obama's wars as their parents were supporters of Nixon or McGovern or whoever. Generational change may be profoundly transformative for those within a given generation (i.e., people of a certain age may be shaped by their experiences as young adults during WII, the post-war Civil Rights struggle, the hippie movement, etc.), but, people being as they are, there is likely to be a serious backlash against whatever the previous generation stood for by whoever's coming up. Why would all this stuff concerning race relations and foundational inequality be immune to this? It does seem like the emerging Millennial generation is more in tune with issues of privilege, they're less interested in things like voting: "Older Americans showed an overall voting rate increase between 1964 and 2012 (66.3 percent to 69.7 percent), surpassing the rates of all other age groups. Voting rates decreased for 25- through 44-year-olds (69.0 percent in 1964 to 49.5 percent in 2012), and for 18- through 24-year-olds and 45-through 64-year-olds as well." (source)

As is typical, the older someone is, the more likely they are to vote. I am among the "older" Millennials, I suppose (I'm in my early 30s), and I'll put it this way: While there are great many younger people doing good and important work when it comes to race and dealing with racial problems, most of it is coming outside of the channels by which people typically obtain and keep political power. The protests in Ferguson, for instance, may have captured the world's attention, but the people participating in them are still economically depressed and socially disadvantaged, so good luck waiting for any of them to become senators or whatever. That reality, combined with the fact that this newest generation is for the most part almost exclusively obsessed with personal 'gender identity' issues which do nothing in themselves to help the political, social, and economic standing of racial groups (read: if Caitlyn Jenner were a poor Native American, black person, or Latino, there would be no "I am Cait" show, and no ESPY award; "being your true self" does nothing for anyone outside of your immediate circle -- generic, monetizable 'awareness' be damned), pretty much guarantees that race-based inequality will be around for a long, long time.

That was a fairly jumbled and self-conflicted essay. My point is that each generation will, when they come into control of society in their middle age (in their fifties), revert to considering internally as "natural" the social structure as they perceived it as children.

For Boomers, that was a segregated society. For Millennials, it is not. I'm a mid-generation Boomer, and I never even knew a white kid by name until I was in the 7th grade--had never been in a classroom or even a school with one until then. Now, I had been taught that segregation was wrong, but experience counts in the reptilian part of the human brain more than words. Just as I had never known a white kid until I was in the 7th grade, those white kids had never known a black kid until that same time--and they got less pro-integration propaganda than I did.

Integration did not happen with the blink of a genies eyes in 1954 or even 1963. It happened gradually over decades after that. Segregation was effectively outlawed in 1954, but I doubt a single school had integrated because of the Supreme Court ruling until 1963. I know they certainly hadn't in Oklahoma even by 1967. Heck, the last time I sat in segregated movie seating was July 20, 1969.

My bottom line is that Millennials are the first generation in which the bell curve of the population had not been raised in a society in which racial segregation was either the de facto or the de jur norm.

Thus, when they suffer their inevitable reversion in their fifties, it won't be to racial segregation. As far as I can see, Millennials are looking at many other different social factors to determine their social groups, and race per se is a very minimal factor, whereas with Boomers race is and was one of the top two or three factors.

 

[RDKirk]

Then equally you shouldn't dismiss the opinions of white people who have said they never experienced this white privilege because I have yet to experience it. I noticed a few other white people have not experienced it either. I will give you a couple of examples. I worked at a fast food restaurant with a black manager. There were both black and white workers. A new dress code rule came down the pipeline which stated that nose rings are no longer allowed. The day after this rule took affect a black girl wore a nose ring nothing was said. A second black girl came in with her nose ring and again nothing was said. So the next day one of my white coworkers wore a rhinestone sticker so it looked like a nose ring. The moment she stepped behind the counter she was asked to remove her nose ring.

Later that year, I quit the job by walking out. A black girl was fired from the job for stealing from the register. She was caught red handed. The next year I was looking for work and applied to the same place because I didn't have a lot of options. I was not hired. But the girl who was caught stealing was re-hired. Now I'm not saying they should have re-hired me because I did walk out but then on that same notion they shouldn't have re-hired the girl who was caught stealing either.

I think it just a new term for racism which does exist. But the new definition is if you are white you are racist and your opinion does not matter. If you are not white it is impossible to be racist and all white people are automatically racist unless they agree with you 100% but not too much otherwise they are accused of cultural appropriation.

You said, "I worked at a fast food restaurant with a black manager" and then pointed out examples of what you consider favoritism of that black manager for black workers. Okay, that's fine.

What makes you think, then, that it doesn't happen the same way for blacks working for white managers? And have you noticed that in American society, there are far, far, far more blacks working for white managers than whites working for black managers? And far more whites working for white managers than blacks working for black managers?

And in fact, far, far more white managers than black managers overall?

So since you seem to think you've proven that managers will favor their own race, by your own example you must admit that whites will have an advantage far more often than blacks will. Yes, "white privilege" is a facet of racism, but it's the facet that acknowledges one race has the major advantage of being able to effectively exert its own racism in this particular culture.

Of course, this conversation would be slightly different if it were to take place in India, China, or Japan.

 

[RDKirk]

Are you under the impression that most black people would prefer to be white if they were given the option?

Ken

That would be an interesting survey of black children around age 12 or 13.

 

[LyraJean]

You said, "I worked at a fast food restaurant with a black manager" and then pointed out examples of what you consider favoritism of that black manager for black workers. Okay, that's fine.

What makes you think, then, that it doesn't happen the same way for blacks working for white managers? And have you noticed that in American society, there are far, far, far more blacks working for white managers than whites working for black managers? And far more whites working for white managers than blacks working for black managers?

And in fact, far, far more white managers than black managers overall?

So since you seem to think you've proven that managers will favor their own race, by your own example you must admit that whites will have an advantage far more often than blacks will. Yes, "white privilege" is a facet of racism, but it's the facet that acknowledges one race has the major advantage of being able to effectively exert its own racism in this particular culture.

Of course, this conversation would be slightly different if it were to take place in India, China, or Japan.

I'm not saying that white people are not racist. Of course some of them are. The term white privilege implies that only white people are racist and that all white people are racist. While minorities are not racist and in fact can not be racist. Throwing the term white privilege into a conversation just shuts the conversation down because once it is out there no matter what a white person says it is deemed racist and therefore their opinion or factual evidence does not matter. That is why I included those examples because according to white privilege those scenarios should not have happened.

 

[RDKirk]

The term white privilege implies that only white people are racist .

No, it doesn't.

Louis CK gets it.
<STAFF EDIT>

 

[SuperCloud]

Someone told me I enjoy certain privileges cause I am white, I don't understand the idea of white privilege. It seems very racist.

Do you think white people get a advantage for being white?

I mean, I don't get a lot of scholarships because I'm not a minority. What laws or system favors me being white?

I have a hard time with people rejecting reality.

I had some privileges being reared in the Black-American middle-class and later attending 4 years of Catholic high school which was overwhelmingly made up of white pupils. A minority of those white pupils were from wealthy homes and impoverished homes. Most seemed to come from white middle-class homes.

Those things alone provided me a social and/or personal capital that Black-Americans from the "ghettos" didn't have. It better allowed me to understand navigation through a white dominated world. That included certain communication skills.

This does not mean white people don't experience human sufferings nor does it negate the fact that some white people are brought up at a disadvantage themselves.

I really get tired of hearing about this "scholarship" and "affirmative action" thing because the vast majority of black people don't receive these things.

What's more important is networking anyways. And hands down white folks are more advantaged in that area. Even blue collar white folks looking to enter into the construction trades. Most of them know some guy that has an uncle or father or friend that runs a construction business, small, midsized, or large. Almost no black people do.





I do realize no matter the race--from black rapers to white truck drivers--nearly everyone in the United States likes to project they built themselves from scratch. Makes their egos feel better. But no one is really "self made."

Nonetheless... many of the problems among Black-Americans or Puerto Ricans have nothing to do with white privilege.

Don't confuse that with me insinuating knowledge or understanding of how to build wealth is innate in everyone one. Usually such knowledge or understanding has to be acquired. One is very fortunate--no matter their race, sex, religion, nationality, ethnicity, or sexual orientation--if they have had parents or mentors that taught them these life skills very early on.

 

[dzheremi]

That was a fairly jumbled and self-conflicted essay.

Thanks.

My point is that each generation will, when they come into control of society in their middle age (in their fifties), revert to considering internally as "natural" the social structure as they perceived it as children.

If this is true, then for most millennials it does not include racial justice in any real (non-Facebook reposting) way anyway, precisely because they view racial inequality as the provenance of the previous generation. "We're the generation that voted for Obama!", "More representation in media now!", "Remember the names of black people who are shot by the police!" amounts to a hill of beans when you don't vote, and voting is what gets people elected and bills/amendments passed. The conservatives of their parents' generation, the dying Evangelical/Moral Majority types, went as far as they could go on the culture war issues of their day (abortion, gays in the military, whatever); the new culture war issues that the Millennials themselves are fighting for are mainly personal/gender identity issues. "Don't mistreat/kill black people" is definitely in there, but if you ask the majority of young people these days what is the defining civil rights struggle of their time, they're going to say gay marriage/gay rights (or the coming wave of transgender rights), not race-based inequality. It's simply not on the radar of enough people as the number one pressing problem in society in the way that all of this sexual identity stuff is.

So while you are right that for millennials the default is not an officially/legally segregated society, you are wrong if you think that means that the privilege that comes with being white is going to go away. I am a part of this generation myself, and I was raised around people of many different colors and ethnicities, and from where I'm sitting race-based discrimination is as alive and well as it ever was. No, there are no segregated movie theaters anymore, but the measure of structural race-based inequality isn't in such obvious things anyway. One of my Navajo friends can go to the same movie theater as me, but they're still much more likely to live in poverty and poor health than I am, in addition to the reality of living on or coming from reservations with notorious and festering social problems. There is a huge difference between race-based inequality (what I'm talking about) and literal (de facto or legal) segregation.

Thus, when they suffer their inevitable reversion in their fifties, it won't be to racial segregation. As far as I can see, Millennials are looking at many other different social factors to determine their social groups, and race per se is a very minimal factor, whereas with Boomers race is and was one of the top two or three factors.

Very true. That, plus the squandering of their political capital in their youth (pre-reversion days) that I already alluded to, is a big part of the reason race-based inequality will stick around. There is a world of difference between "I have no personal problem with non-whites" and "I have no personal problem with the structural inequalities that result in non-whites getting the short end of the stick being rectified via measures that might personally affect me." Everybody's for the troops until they have to face the real possibility of becoming one, right?

I hope this reply wasn't too "jumbled and self-conflicted" for you to understand, RDKirk.

 

[SuperCloud]

It's when you exercise your right in an open-carry state to walk down the street with a rifle in your hands and the police talk to you for half an hour without even pulling out their guns and certainly without throwing you down on the ground.

LOL. Didn't think about that. But pretty true.

 

[Reep]

So it's still worth asking you the question: Given the world as it is, how many white people would have chosen to be born black into it?

It's also fair to ask people of any race which they'd prefer to be born into. The vast majority wouldn't change. Otherwise this question amounts to race baiting knowing that next to no one (of any race) would wish to change.
Although I could see how well spoken and law abiding black people would want to change. It must be tiring being called an uncle Tom by other black people simply because you are not "gangsta" enough.

And white non-guilters getting their information from a host of white Boomer right-wingers, such as I've already named. It's a generational issue.

I'm not even remotely close to being a boomer and every single person I know my age or younger doesn't buy into white privilege or white guilt, so it's not a generational issue.
Plus what do white people have to feel guilty about? Is this truly what liberalism preaches now? Love yourself...unless you're white?! Do you honestly believe that millennials once they get older, and realize they don't actually have any extra privilege are going to keep feeling guilty about being white?

 

[RDKirk]

It's also fair to ask people of any race which they'd prefer to be born into. The vast majority wouldn't change.

I think that's questionable, especially if asked of child who is just coming to terms with "who am I and what is my place in society?"

I'm not even remotely close to being a boomer and every single person I know my age or younger doesn't buy into white privilege or white guilt, so it's not a generational issue.

You just said in that same sentence that it is a generational issue. The second clause of your sentence conflicts with the first clause.

Plus what do white people have to feel guilty about? Is this truly what liberalism preaches now? Love yourself...unless you're white?!

If they are my age or older, they have this to feel guilty about...and amazingly, many (if not most) still believe they were right back then.

Do you honestly believe that millennials once they get older, and realize they don't actually have any extra privilege are going to keep feeling guilty about being white?

That's rather a silly response when I said, "...As far as I can see, Millennials are looking at many other different social factors to determine their social groups, and race per se is a very minimal factor."[/QUOTE]

 

[RDKirk]

while you are right that for millennials the default is not an officially/legally segregated society, you are wrong if you think that means that the privilege that comes with being white is going to go away.

The problem here is that you have bought into the overwrought definition of "white privilege" that Social Justice Warriors have been selling rather than the much more simple Original Concept.

"White privilege" is not a description of the social and economic state of white people compared to anyone else. White privilege is very simply "positive prejudice." It means that being white gives a person "the benefit of the doubt" when no other factors are evident.

As I said before, an example of "white privilege" is that a white kid seen cutting the lock off a bicycle will be assumed to be the bike owner having forgotten his lock combination; a black kid cutting the lock off a bicylce will be assumed to be stealing it.

This is certainly a situational thing--it doesn't work the same way in Honolulu, for instance. And it is a generational thing. I think Millennials tend to make their pre-judgments on factors other than race, while for Boomers and earlier, pre-judgments will tend to start with race.

 

[rambot]

Are you under the impression that most black people would prefer to be white if they were given the option?
Ken

As Louis CK puts it, being white is so much better. Watch the video.

 

[LyraJean]

<STAFF EDIT>
Yes it does. That is how it has been used in every single conversation I've participated in or listened too. The fact that it is not being used that way makes this conversation an exception.

 

[Reep]

I think that's questionable, especially if asked of child who is just coming to terms with "who am I and what is my place in society?"

Then you should perhaps ask everyone, rather than limiting the question to just white people. Even you say it's "questionable" because you are just assuming black people would rather be white.

You just said in that same sentence that it is a generational issue. The second clause of your sentence conflicts with the first clause.

You claim that boomers are the issue. I'm not a boomer. I'm part of the generation you claim will "change". There is no conflict.

If they are my age or older, they have this to feel guilty about...and amazingly, many (if not most) still believe they were right back then.

That's quite pitiful if you believe every white person your age or older should feel guilty about that or anything they didn't have a part in. But wallow in your white guilt :/

As Louis CK puts it, being white is so much better. Watch the video.

Oh, well if a comedian says so it must be true. That's it, white privilege IS real! Being white IS better. Random unfunny comedian has said so -_-

 

[RDKirk]

Yes it does. That is how it has been used in every single conversation I've participated in or listened too. The fact that it is not being used that way makes this conversation an exception.

You have to participate in more of them that are not with SJWs. SJWs distort everything. You can't even have a rational discussion about bacon with an SJW.

 

[RDKirk]

Then you should perhaps ask everyone, rather than limiting the question to just white people. Even you say it's "questionable" because you are just assuming black people would rather be white.

As I said, earlier, that's been a discussion among black people for generations. We know a substantial number of blacks would prefer to be white in the world as it is, and if that could be a magical choice before birth, there would likely not be any black people.

I showed you a videos of a couple of tests where young children an adolescents clearly indicate their discomfort with being black. Do you think their Cinderella dreams don't include white skin along with that ball gown and glass slippers?

You claim that boomers are the issue. I'm not a boomer. I'm part of the generation you claim will "change". There is no conflict.

So are you arguing that Millennials are just as oriented toward racial segregation as Boomers? Is that your argument?

That's quite pitiful if you believe every white person your age or older should feel guilty about that or anything they didn't have a part in. But wallow in your white guilt

Anyone and everyone ought to feel bad that the past was what it was, and if they had a personal part in it--which many Boomer whites living today had--then they ought to feel guilty about it.

 

[Reep]

As I said, earlier, that's been a discussion among black people for generations. We know a substantial number of blacks would prefer to be white in the world as it is, and if that could be a magical choice before birth, there would likely not be any black people.

No, we don't know. It's yet again assuming that black people would simply want to be white.
I mean if we're all suppose to believe that being white is the best thing since sliced bread, then why (according to you) do so many black people want to be saddled with living with such constant guilt?

I showed you a videos of a couple of tests where young children an adolescents clearly indicate their discomfort with being black. Do you think their Cinderella dreams don't include white skin along with that ball gown and glass slippers?

I do recall reading some controversies over how it was done. Whether that applies to the ones you post idk. Either way this isn't a scientific study and isn't a white privilege or guilt issue.

So are you arguing that Millennials are just as oriented toward racial segregation as Boomers? Is that your argument?

I'm saying that (white) milennials once in the real world will discover they don't actually have any extra privilege granted to them, nor should they feel guilty for being white. Are you also suggesting that all boomers were in favour of racial segregation, or that there aren't milennials who support it now?

Anyone and everyone ought to feel bad that the past was what it was, and if they had a personal part in it--which many Boomer whites living today had--then they ought to feel guilty about it.

Honestly, WOW! I'll be honest I have no idea what it's like to have the mindset that you must feel guilty for past actions you had no role in. I'll never understand this guilt ridden way of thinking.

 

[SuperCloud]

That's quite pitiful if you believe every white person your age or older should feel guilty about that or anything they didn't have a part in. But wallow in your white guilt :/

I'm from Generation X. Not the Boomers. But my generation was raised by the Boomers.

You're comment seems to be made out of total ignorance. The generation(s) before mine were all living, operating, and adapted into a racial caste system. There was no "few" to it. The only "few" were those that were the exception to the rule, the outliers. And for those white outliers the social consequences could be pretty harsh--at times physically so even to the point of being murder.