I have much to say about this but 1) my comment would probably get deleted as it has on other threads 2) you guys would just go around or not answer them and 3) if you do answer them there wont be a straight answer given from anyones personal, free thought but here it goes.
give me a try, start a private chat with me and find out. Oh, but don't just claim I'm not a free thinker because we have different conclusions on the matter, they are not one and the same.
Not long ago, I had this question presented on a forum and the poster insisted on discussing it even though it was off topic. End result, that poster never accepted that understanding involved seeing through a different perspective, which is like common everyday stuff when they ran out of arguments they thought sounded wise, instead of thinking for themselves, they resorted to name calling and false accusations. If you are open to think for yourself and not just what you have been taught to believe, and if you are willing to apply everyday communication rules to the topic at hand, and if you are willing to discuss the topic, not just try to shame me into agreeing with everything you say, which is how these discussions usually go, by all means start a conversation with me, I would love, and I mean that sincerely, I would love to have someone really challenge the truths I have found through study. So far, all anyone has offered is inflammatory insults without objective criticisms of the arguments presented....maybe...you will be the exception to the rule? (I'm hopeful, but run into enough people that I am also doubtful. Just being painfully honest here)
My belifes are not challenged by this on any level rather i feel your rationality to what is being said right before your that you try to twist into something good and holy. I mean have you ever taken a step back and thought about this? and are you sure about that "yes i have" that you tell yourself?
well, personally, I have stepped back and thought a lot about it. In fact, one of the things that made the other posters angry was that I have come to the conclusion that based on all the information available to us, we do not have enough information to judge "fairly" the matter, that the best we can do is try to understand both sides of the issue and in that, decide whether or not we are going to trust God on the matter, or trust ourselves. IOW's I make no judgment of whether it was right or wrong, none at all, all I do is present both sides as accurately as I can through a careful study of the accounts. Judgement is left for any individual and hopefully that individual will understand both sides before making that judgment call, cause frankly, that is the only fair and right way to judge anything, to understand both sides and from that, decide which side you hold to be truth. Sounds like you aren't willing to do that yet, I'm praying you soften your heart to be able to, given that I am looking for serious challenge to my understanding and not just some rhetorical, inflammatory arguments of "my way or your stupid and not thinking for yourself"
Since this topic is about loving your enemies it seems not to be to far off topic or more of loving your creations which you seem to hate and punish excesivley because you made them imperfect.
I am pretty harsh about this staying on topic issue because one time I followed the line of discussion and was reported and warned for being off topic, even got points for it. I get that that sounds nutty, but I have even been warned for accepting another persons apology, so I try to be very careful not to violate forum rules at all, as crazy as that sounds. I guess that is the price of people using reporting to escape arguments that they can't win....sad but true...none the less, I am seriously looking for true challenge to my understanding, so private chat or another thread dedicated to it would be cool by me, at least if you drop the venom and actually talk about the topic.
As for seeing things 1) through gods perspective what does that mean exactly his hypocrisy in not practicing what he preachs? his blatant hate for some humans and love for others for irrational reasons?
this is some of that venom I was talking about...from God's perspective, iow's what scripture says He was doing from what He understood about the situation, He was showing Love. Now like I have said dozens and dozens of times before, understanding this perspective doesn't mean you agree with it. Just like if you put forth some effort to understand my perspective doesn't mean you agree with that perspective, it just means you understand how I could think/feel/act, the way I do. I am currently writing a series of murder mysteries, the series doesn't work at all if you can't see why the murderer would do what he does nor the detective would do what they do. You have to build a character understanding for the book to hold your interest so that you are able to identify with the characters. Now, identifying with the characters, something that happens every time you read a book or watch a movie or TV program doesn't mean you agree with that character or will do things they same way they do, what it means is that you can begin to grasp why things happened the way you are being told they happened. Likewise, scripture gives us enough details to grasp God's perspective, doesn't mean we have to agree with that perspective or accept it as good, or even do things the same way, we all have our own perspective, but understanding God's perspective gives us a way of putting ourselves in His situation and comprehending why things when the way they did...just like in any good story, we begin to relate to the characters and begin to see things through their eyes, not just our own. If you can try to do this, I would love the challenge to our understanding of God's perspective, as to agreeing or disagreeing, that is as individual as you and I are.
and 2) can you define biblical love after reading the bible from cover to cover? because after reading it myself im quite confused as to what you mean
the best definition I have for Biblical Love is....putting another above yourself in an act of humility, creating a covenant whose intent/purpose is reconciliation/restoration. I have an entire chapter of passage references with directed connections if you want, but would take up quite a few posts here.
To add a bit of clarity though....the world tells us to look out for number one, to put ourselves and our own interests above the interests of others, this is contrary to what real Love tells us to do. Real Love or Biblical Love as you would know it by, is to put the best interests of others ahead of our own. How we think a good parent does with their children would be a good example (not bad parents here, but the ideal parent)
This is an act of humility...CS Lewis says that humility is not thinking less of yourself but rather thinking of yourself less...this is a very good definition. In order to do more than just go through the motions of helping others, it requires that we change our focus from ourselves to others. We have to have an outward focus not an inward one for Biblical Love to exist.
Creating a covenant...if you go to the characteristics of Love in I Cor. 13, the first characteristic listed is Love is patient, if you love down the list, we are told that Love always perseveres...this is a lasting thing. We taught this concept to a youth group one time using this....we took a poster, covered it with small tiny little sticky bricks. Then we explained while asking two or three kids to walk up to the poster, remove a brick, put the brick on a sheet on the table, then return for another one. As they were doing this, we talked about every time we get hurt, we build walls around ourselves, to protect us from further hurt. Love removes that wall little by little. As we Love, with a true, unfailing Love, the wall comes down little by little. This is why Love is patient, why Love always perseveres, because it takes time to tear down the walls that we have built up by all the non Love we have known in our lives. By the time we were finished explaining, the wall was only about 1/2 to 1/3 of the way removed. Covenant is about staying power, not giving up, staying the course, promising with a promise that is serious, to Love for as long as that Love is needed.
And now, for the purpose of Love, the goal of Love....Biblical Love absolutely has a goal and that goal is to set things right, to make it as though the pain and hurt caused is reconciled. In biblical terms, it is to restore us to our original image, the image of God, a God that is said to be Love (again, deals with the above discussion I would love to have with someone who is willing to think enough for themselves to discuss and challenge not just attack and belittle)
Any other questions about Biblical Love, have about 7 years of 8-10 hours a day 6-7 days a week study and/or teaching/counseling biblical Love, so not a problem to talk more about it, just ask.
Oh, and as I previously said, since the core of Love is humility, the opposite of Love is pride, self centeredness, not hate. Hate is an emotion only, Love is emotion, attitude, action, and more...