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What holds the Atom together?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by tacoman528, Feb 5, 2003.

  1. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

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    Because without those voids in scientific knowledge, creationists would have no reason to exist.
     
  2. tacoman528

    tacoman528 New Member

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    We do not crash into the sun because we have a perfectly balanced orbit (more proof of intelligent design) not the same case as electrons around an atom. I would also like to point out the the force of Electro-magnetizm is thousands of times more powerful than the force of Gravity.
     
  3. tacoman528

    tacoman528 New Member

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    Thank you for that insult and that attempt to throw us off subject :(
     
  4. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

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    And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    You seem to be reading a lot into this if you think it means Jesus is specifically holding together all the atoms in the universe.
     
  5. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

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    Oh, he is serious. If you ever doubt diabolical hate, just look at his treatment of his fellow Christians that are Catholic.

    He hates Catholicism with a passion.
     
  6. Arikay

    Arikay HI

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    We are crashing into the sun, just slowly.

    We are falling in towards the sun, similiar to how a penny or ball spins around a cone, it slowly falls to the center. However on a very large scale. Every year we get very very slightly closer to the sun (compared to how far away we are, its a tiny amount).

    You wont have to worry about hitting the sun though. As it will become a giant (I believe) long before we spiral in. When it becomes a giant, there is a big chance that it will engulf mercury (I believe) and will cook the earth, killing anything thats alive and not protected. However, that not for a long time as well. :)

     
  7. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

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    While I was blunt with that comment, it was meant more as a general observation based on my past debates with creationists than an insult. Too often I have seen creationists use science's lack of knowledge about something as an excuse to claim God's presence. But it's a poor strategy, since as we learn more about the universe, they'll be able to invoke God less and less.

    In ancient times, people used to think the sun, moon, lighting, rain, etc, were the results of a god or gods. Do you believe Jesus is sitting in a cloud hucking lightning bolts down from the sky every time there's a thunderstorm?
     
  8. David Gould

    David Gould Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

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    No, it is leopards. Think about it. Its the only answer that makes sense. It is completely logical

    C'mom, people.
     
  9. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

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    Actually, research into chaos theory would suggest that the planetary systems are not "perfectly balanced", at that it may be possible (due to gravitational disturbances from other planets, comets, etc) for a planet to be flung out of orbit (or fall into the Sun).
     
  10. DNAunion

    DNAunion New Member

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    DNAunion: Several people have answered the first question: why doesn't the nucleus fly apart? Because the residual effects of the color force (the effects that extend to just beyond the 'boundary' of the quarks found in protons and neutrons) is strong enough to bind nucleons together (since it is a bit more than 100 times as strong as the electromagnetic force that would cause the protons in the nucleus to repel each other). In general, the more protons a nucleus has, the more neutrons is has to have. This is because the neutrons contribute to holding the nucleus together (since they are made of quarks) but do not add to electrostatic replusion; and, even help space out the protons, thereby reducing the replusion between them. Thus, neutrons serve to help stabilize larger nuclei.

    As to why electrons remain in orbit about a nucleus... As someone pointed out, classical physics cannot explain an atom. Electrons orbiting a nucleus are charged particles that are accelerating (acceleration here being a change in direction, not in speed). Accelerating electric charge produces electromagnetic waves. Waves transmit energy. Energy cannot be created. Thus, as the electrons accelerate around the nucleus, they would produce electromagnetic waves which would radiate away the electrons' energy, which would mean that their orbits would decay and in far less than a second, would spiral into the nucleus.

    But then quantum mechanics painted a different picture of the atom. Wave-particle duality tells us that electrons are both particles and waves (just as light is). So electrons are not just little solid spheres in circular orbits around a nucleus, they are also standing waves, which means that their wavelengths must be of certain discrete sizes - i.e., they are quantized. A standing wave would not fall into the nucleus, so electrons, being standing waves, do not either.

    There is more to it, but that should be sufficient.
     
  11. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

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    If that is true, wouldnt it have happened in the 4.5 Billion years that the Earth is supposed to have been around?

    Seems like God is protecting us one way or the other.

    :clap:
     
  12. Mechanical Bliss

    Mechanical Bliss Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.

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    First of all, you're wrong right off the bat.

    There are two kinds of nucleons: protons and neutrons. The nucleus of an atom (except the Hydrogen atom excluding its isotopes, Deuterium and Tritium) is not completely made of positive material, but rather of both types of neucleons.

    Right, and when you don't understand quantum mechanics, invoke the supernatural. 
     
  13. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

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    Unfortunately, it's been a number of years since I've done any reading on chaos theory, so I have to check out a bunch of books from the library before I could get into detail.

    From what I remember, the chaotic nature of planetary orbits is rather small. That is, they're not perfectly deterministic, but still confined to their general orbits. But, there is still the chance of a planet being flung out of orbit if given the right circumstances (I think Mercury was the most probable suspect for this happening; I'd really have to double check this).
     
  14. David Gould

    David Gould Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

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    I was reading a book that said computer modelling of the solar system predicts that in 200-300 million years time one of the three inner planets will be thrown out of the solar system.

    Because of chaos, it is impossible to predict which planet it will be or exactly when, but the evidence is clear that there will be a major event.
     
  15. tacoman528

    tacoman528 New Member

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    your point is...

     

     
     
  16. tacoman528

    tacoman528 New Member

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    We hope that we are raptured before this happens
     
  17. David Gould

    David Gould Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

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    Humanity, or whatever our descendants choose to call themselves, will be well clear of the solar system by that event - or extinct through other means.

    I don't think we have too much to worry about.

     
     
  18. Arikay

    Arikay HI

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    I think his point was that your information was wrong.

     
  19. Late_Cretaceous

    Late_Cretaceous <font color="#880000" ></font&g

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    Why does someone have no problem accepting the electromagnetic force, but cannot accept the strong nuclear force?
     
  20. Tenek

    Tenek New Member

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    It's the leopaaaargh!

    I dunno actually. I never heard about strong and weak until I got to high school physics. Good thing, too.
     
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