What exactly is "Obamacare"?

[SharonL]

Here is one of the articles -
Illegal Immigrants and HR 3200: Estimate of Potential Costs to Taxpayers | Center for Immigration Studies

 

[Vylo]

Here is one of the articles -
Illegal Immigrants and HR 3200: Estimate of Potential Costs to Taxpayers | Center for Immigration Studies

The article states within the first sentence that illegals are not eligible. Any illegal trying to claim such benefits might as well turn themselves in to INS.

 

[conamer]

Why?

Because of the minimum requirement.

 

[childofGod1]

One thing we *do* need to get away from is healthcare insurance through employers.

That's something I could rant about!

Tying insurance to employment does nothing but complicate and needlessly increase costs for insurance. Pople wrongly assume they'll be paid the same wage whether their employer spends 2K a month on healht insurance for them or nothing at all.

Insurance companies don't care what you, the patient,wants from an insurance company, they care what the employer who actually picks and pays for the plan wants. If you purchase your insurance directly, you are the customer instead of your employer (AKA your jerk boss)

If you purchase your insurance directly, you can take it with you from one job to another. You don't lose it when your employer (AKA your jerk boss) gets on your nerves and you quit.

If you purchase your insurance directly, you can choose the type of plan (IF ANY) that suits you, your family and your budget. For example, a young healthy single adult may only want major medical while a young family may prefer to have coverage for routine visits.

 

[SharonL]

The article states within the first sentence that illegals are not eligible. Any illegal trying to claim such benefits might as well turn themselves in to INS.

Read further into the article - it tells of the possibility and how they could not stop them because it does not state that it is illegal.

 

[citizenthom]

The main features, as discussed in a CLE I attended on the PPACA:

1.) The individual mandate: every American has to purchase health insurance or be on Medicare/Medicaid once it goes into effect.

2.) Severely limits the criteria insurance companies can use to determine how much people pay: now premiums can only be rated based on age, geographical location, and tobacco use. In other words a person with zero health problems will have to pay just as much as someone with severe medical issues, and other than not using tobacco none of your healthy lifestyle choices matter.

3.) Greatly expands the reach of Medicaid: now anyone making up to 133% of the poverty level is eligible (about $15,000 for an individual, $20,000 for a couple in 2012)

4.) Forces every state either to have its own "health care exchange" program or to submit to the federal government's centralized system. This system will supposedly tell people what health insurances are available in their area and rate them as "bronze, silver, gold, or platinum" plans. Basically whomever donates the most to the right politicians gets free government-funded advertising; and the states are saddled with most of the cost.

5.) Severely limits insurers' ability to exclude conditions from coverage, most notably pre-existing conditions. Essentially means health insurance is no longer "insurance."

6.) Punishes businesses of a certain size that don't provide "good enough" health insurance for their employees.

Those are the big ones but there are a TON of other regulatory changes that providers, insurers, and employers are still trying to figure out.

 

[Viren]

Direct government control restricts freedom, which is a major part of this country's foundation. It is generally better from a liberty standpoint to educate people on risks and have them pay for their mistakes then to outright prevent poor decisions.

Everyone pays for their mistakes through higher rates.

Government tampering with (and eventual dissolution of) the best healthcare system in the world

Right now we're have a whooping cough epidemic in my state, because so many people are uninsured and haven't recieved the vaccine. It is a standard shot given at regular doctor's visits and lasts 10 years. It just shows how many people haven't been to the doctor in the last decade.

 

[KrimsonDraegon]

Oy, do we have to go through this... yet again?

Government-run health care

Is such a bad thing that Sarah Palin has admitted to crossing international borders to poach their Health Care when she and hers needed it.

Government control of 1/6th of our economy

Why fund our government when we can allow private overseas investors to run off with our money!

Government mandate that citizens purchase it

Government mandate that citizens purchase insurance for their vehicles, etc.

Massive increases in IRS bureaucracy to "oversee" the mandate

New jobs are bad

2,500+ plus pages of regulation no one understands (not even Nancy "we must pass it to know what's in it" Pelosi)

Like we do with most all of our over-bloated legislation anyway

Forces everyone to support/pay for abortions

Accepting a broken solution and then working to fix it over time (like every other nation on Earth does) is worse than accepting no solution

Government-run committees who determine whether care is "cost-effective"

As opposed to the private investors who currently determine if you live or die when you need medical treatment

Government involvement in how we live our lives, what we eat, smoke, drink

As opposed to the numerous anti-smoking propagana commercials, warning stickers and labels, etc. which are now federally appointed and funded (just as one example)

Government tampering with (and eventual dissolution of) the best healthcare system in the world

THIS ONE IS AWESOME!!! The BEST healthcare system IN THE WORLD. IN OUR WORLD! LIKE HERE ON EARTH! The same world where the WHO has consistently ranked the United States in the mid-thirties out of all nations!

Gargantuan increases in taxation to pay for it

Because I'd rather not have paid higher taxes and have healthcare when and where I need it than not have enough cash to pay out-of-pocket and insurance that refuses to extend coverage when I need it.

Massive waste

Indeed, think of all that extra medical waste when people start getting care they need because they no longer have to pay out of pocket! IT SICKENS ME!

Eventual decline to horrifically poor healthcare for all

By "all" I'm including the 1% too, as it is only the 99% who are getting cheated now.

..
..
..
(as if that weren't enough)

No, no - keep going; we're having fun laughing.

In all seriousness; do you only watch Fox News?

 

[Vylo]

Those are the big ones but there are a TON of other regulatory changes that providers, insurers, and employers are still trying to figure out.

One of the major reasons that many of us on the left dislike it. Obama should have just gone for single payer. We don't need this much regulation.

Everyone pays for their mistakes through higher rates.

You could change that and incrrease the rates for those who choose to neglect their health.

 

[Suomipoika]

Government tampering with (and eventual dissolution of) the best healthcare system in the world
..............
Eventual decline to horrifically poor healthcare for all

ROFL

Have a nice day everyone!

 

[citizenthom]

You could change that and incrrease the rates for those who choose to neglect their health.

Not without doing away with one of liberals' favorite parts of the legislation: prohibiting coverage exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

 

[David Jerome]

Yeah, he's wrong on that. It won't increase taxes, seeing as it is funded through people/employers buying medical insurance.



Because this isn't medicaid or medicare. If they just expanded those to encompass everyone, that would be single payer. It is far too efficient for us to do anything that logical .

Okay.

Direct government control restricts freedom, which is a major part of this country's foundation. It is generally better from a liberty standpoint to educate people on risks and have them pay for their mistakes then to outright prevent poor decisions.

1) There's enough to "educate people on risks" (surgeon general warnings on cigarettes, putting both nutrition facts and ingredients on food packages, teaching kids about STD's in school, etc.) The problem is that people ignore them.

2) People don't actually pay for their own mistakes; the expect the government to help, usually through government-run healthcare. Also, people expect the government to take care of the rising obesity problem, rather than take care of it themselves.

In other words, people can't be trusted to take care of themselves. U.S. citizens have huge gluttony/drug-use/spending on what they can't afford/self-control issues. Left to make their own decisions and pay for it, this country would sink fast, and people would then ask government leaders what they would do about. This being the case...doesn't it make sense that the government step in?

 

[David Jerome]

Because of the minimum requirement.

Which is what? And how would this result in "millions" having less healthcare?

 

[GQ Chris]

just a Utopian ideal where obama wants our healthcare to be as awesome as Cuba's.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

ROFL

Have a nice day everyone!

Yep. Sounds like things are working out great for Greece:

State healthcare insurance pays most of the cost of drugs in Greece but pharmacists say the state owes them 762 million euros for drugs delivered on credit since 2011 and they can no longer afford to deliver them without payment.

The article states within the first sentence that illegals are not eligible. Any illegal trying to claim such benefits might as well turn themselves in to INS.

How does one turn oneself in to a government bureaucracy that doesn't exist?

I've thought about that and what the logic is behind employer based healthcare.

I think one major issue is that if your employer is paying for your medical insurance, it gives them incentives to keep you healthy.

The logic behind employer provided healthcare relates to government provided wage controls from World War 2.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Yep. Sounds like things are working out great for Greece:

How does one turn oneself in to a government bureaucracy that doesn't exist?

ROTFL. Indeed.

 

[Suomipoika]

Yep. Sounds like things are working out great for Greece:

What does Greece have to do with anything about this?

 

[Illuminaughty]

What does Greece have to do with anything about this?

Obamacare ruined Greece. Everyone knows that.

 

[Suomipoika]

Obamacare ruined Greece. Everyone knows that.

Obamacare ruins Greece. The ruin of Greece raises the U.S. to the first position in all WHO statistics. Logic has never been more lucid

 

[EdwinWillers]

Is such a bad thing that Sarah Palin has admitted to crossing international borders to poach their Health Care when she and hers needed it.

Dunno - you'll have to ask Sarah

Why fund our government when we can allow private overseas investors to run off with our money!

Well, if those are the only two choices...

Government mandate that citizens purchase insurance for their vehicles, etc.

Didn't I stipulate "federal" somewhere? I'm sure I did.

New jobs are bad

Then you might consider voting Obama! He's implemented a plan for that that's working great right now.

Accepting a broken solution and then working to fix it over time (like every other nation on Earth does) is worse than accepting no solution

We're not like every other nation on Earth.

As opposed to the private investors who currently determine if you live or die when you need medical treatment.

"private investors" determine whether I live or die??
Assuming that is true, how is the federal government determining whether I live or die somehow better?

THIS ONE IS AWESOME!!! The BEST healthcare system IN THE WORLD. IN OUR WORLD! LIKE HERE ON EARTH! The same world where the WHO has consistently ranked the United States in the mid-thirties out of all nations!

Who?

Because I'd rather not have paid higher taxes and have healthcare when and where I need it than not have enough cash to pay out-of-pocket and insurance that refuses to extend coverage when I need it.

ok?

Indeed, think of all that extra medical waste when people start getting care they need because they no longer have to pay out of pocket! IT SICKENS ME!

Anger is unhealthy. But then, I'm sure the government has a great solution for that too.

By "all" I'm including the 1% too, as it is only the 99% who are getting cheated now.

See, and here I thought more than 1% of America had health care... silly me.

No, no - keep going; we're having fun laughing.

Good! You know, I heard it once said that "laughter is the best medicine!"

In all seriousness; do you only watch Fox News?

Seriously? Yes. What do *you* watch?