What Does Aionios Mean in Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9? (part 1)

[ClementofA]

No, you don't understand, your translations you site don't even make sense

Why is that? You don't understand them?

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

my threads:

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

 

[ClementofA]

There never was a time when God was not the life, there never was a time past or future when the Word was not life.

True. But that is not the topic. The topic is aionios life.

That life is "eternal life,', "everlasting life", never ending or and going back in time eternally for His life is always.

Incorrect. Scripture speaks of "before aionion times". Therefore before "aionion life". So aionion life can't be eternal in the past. Scripture does not contradict itself.

Time, or eternity, in the past goes "beyond aionios life". There is scripture that proves there was "before" aionios life, so aionios life is not eternal, at least not in the past:

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

We see here that the "times eonian"(aionion) had a beginning:

in expectation of life eonian[aioniou], which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian[aionion], (Titus 1:2, CLV)

before eternal times (Titus 1:2, Greek-English Interlinear, ACVI): Online Parallel Study Bibles

Obviously there cannot be a "before eternal" past time. That would be nonsense. Therefore these "eternal"[aionion/eonian] times must have had a beginning.

Likewise with 2 Tim.1:9,

G4253προG5550χρόνωνG166αιωνίων
.....BEFORE.........TIMES.......AIONION(EONIAN)

"before times of the ages[aionion]":

2 Timothy 1:9 Interlinear: who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, (2 Tim.1:9, CLV)

Similarly 1 Cor.2:7 speaks of "before the eons"[aionon], i.e. "before the ages" (NASB).
And Jude 1:25 says "before all the eons"[aionos], i.e. "before all ages" (NIV).

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

So whatever you think of the "aionios life" in John 1:2, it cannot be eternal in the past and had a beginning.

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

It is not right to say God is age life, or life of an age.

God is certainly life in the present age. That age will end. Who can deny that? And God was life in the age before this one we are now in. That age ended. So the life He had during that age is over because that age is over. Yet His life goes on. Get it? When my teenage years ended, my life didn't end, but my teenage years life ended.

In Mk.10:30 (cf Lk.18:30) Jesus links directly the concepts of eonian life and the "eon to come". Yet Paul & John speak of multiple future ages. Does this, then, limit the duration of "life eonian"?

And how long are believers going to know Him?

We'll live forever because we'll have immortality, etc.

When speaking of God's character and nature and power the word "aeons" always has an eternal everlasting , perpetual, never ending

Scripture calls God the "Ancient of days" (Dan.7:9, 13,22). Does that mean He had a beginning? Of course not.

Re Greek scholar Deissman:

"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?" "

Chapter Nine

The Greek text is on p.275ff of the following url. The English translation follows.

"I adjure thee by the great God, the eternal and more than eternal and almighty, who is exalted above the exalted Gods." (p.277)

"The tablet, as is shown not only by its place of origin (the Necropolis of Adrumetum belongs to the second and third centuries, A.D.; the part in which the tablet was found is fixed in the third), but also by the character of the lettering, is to be assigned to the third century,1 that is— to determine it by a date in the history of the Greek Bible — about the time of Origen." (p.279)

https://ia800300.us.archive.org/4/items/biblestudiescon00deisuoft/biblestudiescon00deisuoft.pdf

If time ends, the "times eonian" (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9; Rom.16:25) end & eonian ends with the beginning of eternity, then in Scripture eonian can never mean endless or everlasting.

The eons had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7, etc) & may also have an end (1 Cor.10:11; Heb.9:26). Then, arguably, that which is eonian ends as well.

More examples re aion/ios (& olam) being finite:

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

12 points re forever and ever being finite:
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

aionios life, 2 UR views, eon/ian ends, millennial eon, 1 Jn.1:2, Chrysoston, Origen, Dan 12 2-3:
how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

John 3:36, 3:16, 1 Jn.1:2, aionios life:
Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Rev.14:9-11 & 20:10 & forever & ever a deceptive translation:
If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

 

[LoveofTruth]

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9)

"2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"(Titus 1:2)

this simply says that God promised this eternal life before the world began. That shows that this eternal life (perpeptual life, never ending life ) was always in existence. Titus 1:2 does not say that eternal life had a beginning. And again context is everything and defines the usage.

Eternal life is the result of God's divine purpose for man fixed and was there in Christ from eternity, or we could say this eternal life in God has always been in Him alone from all time and before all things. We read that the Son of God was before all things and eternal life is in the Son of God who is God. ThWord of God has always been and has always been the life John 1..

The expression "before the world began.," could simply refer to when God promised to Adam and Eve that the seed would come to bruise the head of the serpent. The world we live in now, under the curse began with the fall of Adam and Eve, But God gave them a promised hope in the seed. Also to Abraham was the promise made this was all at the beginning of the world. Or before the Jewish world was known etc.

To suppose that the word αιωνιος here refers to a literal expression "before eternal times." is a contradiction of terms and so it is translated "before the world began.

If we say that before time began to be reckoned as ages, eternal life was promised. This would simply mean that eternal life was always there and God promised it to men when the ages of the world began. Either way your assumption does not eliminate Jesus Christ as eternal life and the life eternally in both directions. He has always been eternal life for the life he is is eternal , the word abideth forever. .

also we could see it as "‘before the times of the world’s history,"

God also has His purpose in His mind and has always had His plan even before man was ready to receive it..

 

[ClementofA]

To suppose that the word αιωνιος here refers to a literal expression "before eternal times." is a contradiction of terms and so it is translated "before the world began.

It's no contradiction when you understand that "aionion times" had a beginning, which is implied by the fact that there was a "before" these "aionion times". As Titus 1:2 says:

before eternal times (ACVI Greek-English Interlinear)
before the ages of time (IGNT Greek-English Interlinear)
before times eternal (Apostolic Greek Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear) Study Bible - Online Greek Hebrew KJV Parallel Interlinear Tools
before times eonian (Online Greek-English Interlinear) http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit1.pdf
before time eternal (Greek-English Interlinear)
Titus 1:2 Interlinear: upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,


Therefore, since aionion/eonian has a beginning in the Scriptures, it can never be eternal in the past. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"(Titus 1:2)

That shows that this eternal life (perpeptual life, never ending life ) was always in existence.

The deceptive KJV obscures the fact of God's Word [and the Holy Spirit's] teaching that there was "before times aionion" & therefore "times aionion" are not eternal in the past. It follows from that that what is aionion cannot be eternal in the past.

Titus 1:2

KJV In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Aside from the mistranslation "eternal" in some of the following versions, they translate the phrase in question - προ χρονων αιωνιων (pro chronon aionion) [before times eonian] - more accurately than KJV:

Berean Literal Bible
in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time eternal
Jubilee Bible 2000
for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages
American Standard Version
in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;
Darby Bible Translation
in [the] hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time,
English Revised Version
in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;
Weymouth New Testament
in hope of the Life of the Ages which God, who is never false to His word, promised before the commencement of the Ages.
Young's Literal Translation
upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,

AMP based on the hope and divine guarantee of eternal life, [the life] which God, who is ever truthful and without deceit, promised before the ages of time began,
DLNT on-the-basis-of the hope of eternal life which the non-lying God promised before eternal times—
EHV based on the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.
ESV in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
ESVUK in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
EXB That faith and that knowledge ·come from [or lead to] the ·hope for [confidence/certainty of] ·life forever [eternal life], which God, who never lies, promised to us before ·time began [L eternal times].
JUB for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages
LEB in the hope of eternal life which God, who does not lie, promised before eternal ages,
MOUNCE for the sake of the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before times eternal,
NRSV in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVA in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVACE in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVCE in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NTE in the hope of the life of the coming age. God, who never lies, promised this before the ages began,
OJB The mekor (basis) of this is a tikvah of Chayyei Olam which Hashem Who cannot speak sheker [BAMIDBAR 24:19; SHMUEL ALEF 15:29] promised before the Yamim HaOlam (days of eternity),

in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian (CLV)
In hope of life age-abiding; which God, who cannot lie, promised before age-during times, (Ro)
in hope of life age-lasting, which promised the not false God before times age-lasting, (Diag)
on hope of eternal life which the God who does not lie promised before the eternal times (GLT)

before eternal times (ACVI Greek-English Interlinear)
before the ages of time (IGNT Greek-English Interlinear)
before times eternal (Apostolic Greek Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear) Study Bible - Online Greek Hebrew KJV Parallel Interlinear Tools
before times eonian (Online Greek-English Interlinear) http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit1.pdf
before time eternal (Greek-English Interlinear)
Titus 1:2 Interlinear: upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

 

[LoveofTruth]

It's no contradiction when you understand that "aionion times" had a beginning, which is implied by the fact that there was a "before" these "aionion times". As Titus 1:2 says:

before eternal times (ACVI Greek-English Interlinear)
before the ages of time (IGNT Greek-English Interlinear)
before times eternal (Apostolic Greek Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear) Study Bible - Online Greek Hebrew KJV Parallel Interlinear Tools
before times eonian (Online Greek-English Interlinear) http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit1.pdf
before time eternal (Greek-English Interlinear)
Titus 1:2 Interlinear: upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,


Therefore, since aionion/eonian has a beginning in the Scriptures, it can never be eternal in the past. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.



The deceptive KJV obscures the fact of God's Word [and the Holy Spirit's] teaching that there was "before times aionion" & therefore "times aionion" are not eternal in the past. It follows from that that what is aionion cannot be eternal in the past.

Titus 1:2

KJV In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Aside from the mistranslation "eternal" in some of the following versions, they translate the phrase in question - προ χρονων αιωνιων (pro chronon aionion) [before times eonian] - more accurately than KJV:

Berean Literal Bible
in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time eternal
Jubilee Bible 2000
for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages
American Standard Version
in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;
Darby Bible Translation
in [the] hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time,
English Revised Version
in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;
Weymouth New Testament
in hope of the Life of the Ages which God, who is never false to His word, promised before the commencement of the Ages.
Young's Literal Translation
upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,

AMP based on the hope and divine guarantee of eternal life, [the life] which God, who is ever truthful and without deceit, promised before the ages of time began,
DLNT on-the-basis-of the hope of eternal life which the non-lying God promised before eternal times—
EHV based on the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.
ESV in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
ESVUK in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
EXB That faith and that knowledge ·come from [or lead to] the ·hope for [confidence/certainty of] ·life forever [eternal life], which God, who never lies, promised to us before ·time began [L eternal times].
JUB for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages
LEB in the hope of eternal life which God, who does not lie, promised before eternal ages,
MOUNCE for the sake of the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before times eternal,
NRSV in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVA in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVACE in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVCE in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NTE in the hope of the life of the coming age. God, who never lies, promised this before the ages began,
OJB The mekor (basis) of this is a tikvah of Chayyei Olam which Hashem Who cannot speak sheker [BAMIDBAR 24:19; SHMUEL ALEF 15:29] promised before the Yamim HaOlam (days of eternity),

in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian (CLV)
In hope of life age-abiding; which God, who cannot lie, promised before age-during times, (Ro)
in hope of life age-lasting, which promised the not false God before times age-lasting, (Diag)
on hope of eternal life which the God who does not lie promised before the eternal times (GLT)

before eternal times (ACVI Greek-English Interlinear)
before the ages of time (IGNT Greek-English Interlinear)
before times eternal (Apostolic Greek Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear) Study Bible - Online Greek Hebrew KJV Parallel Interlinear Tools
before times eonian (Online Greek-English Interlinear) http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit1.pdf
before time eternal (Greek-English Interlinear)
Titus 1:2 Interlinear: upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

No your wrong, the context means everything. If the words eternal life are in connection to God they are pereptual, never ending life and that life is in jesus Christ the Son of God. So if a believer is in Jesus Christ and He is in them, they have (present tense) eternal life). This life is Jesus Christ Jesus said "i am the ....life". And in Him is "life'. That life is eternal life as scripture clearly shows. In other context the word can be used slightly different. Thats where the issue comes in. You seem to just take the word and use it in every case that same. This is not how words are used and the literal usage is not the way it is used there are idioms and context and many factors.

even when you read this verse

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"(Titus 1:2)"

The question immediately should be, when did God "promise" this to men?. We can see that the world we are in now, the fallen workd=ld was from Adam and Eve. All life before that was in Christ who is eternal life" when they died, they died spiritually the day they dd eat. They lost that eternal life in Christ. And needed to be born again.

So when we read these kind of verses they are talking about eternal life bing in us and that eternal life is Jesus Christ, he is the life,

"John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

2 Corinthians 13:3
"Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."

and we read

1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."


"3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."( John 17:3 KJV) [When speaking of God's character and nature and power the word "aionios" always has an eternal everlasting , perpetual, never ending unending Romans 16:26, Romans 1:20 etc]

"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
[and so when eternal life is connected to God and jesus Christ this word is always to be translated eternal everlasting, meaning perpetual, never ending.This clearly says that Jesus Chris is God AND he IS eternal life. ]

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life [what life is that he speaks of?, the LIFE in His Son, this is eternal life. For jesus Christ is always and ever will be and he is the Word of God that abideth forever, if we are born again by the word of God and abide in faith we abide forever in Him] is in his Son.[only IN the Son does any have His life and His life is eternal life]

John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." To have everlasting life is a present reality to those he spoke to and an ongoing everlasting life because as they abide in Christ they live in the word of God that abideth forever. So you are corrected by scripture again.

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Notice the present tense "is passed", and John refers to everlasting life as the life in many cases as he does in 1 John as well. So again you are corrected by scripture.

John 6:47
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." Again a "present tense reality" by faith in Jesus Christ. That is because Jesus Christ is eternal life, everlasting life. He is the LIFE and He never ends. So again you are corrected by scripture.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the seed sown in the hearts of men this is the word of God that abideth forever. It is a never ending word and those who are born again are born again by the word of God, this is the word that abideth forever. So if the seed is sown in the heart then eternal life is sown in the heart and this eternal life is God working in us, and this is Jesus Christ in us.

and who can forget these verses that expose the error of universalism and the twisting of the word "aionios"

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15) Notice where eternal life is. It can be IN a person or no longer remaining in them. How does this fit into your theology?

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, [showing that eternal life was, past tense always there with the Father] and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

That above verse is as clear as it can get. You tried hard to find some translation that clouded it and said otherwise. But this and many other reasons are why I use the KJV.

Also I am a King James Bible Christian, if you have to define what scriptures I believe and read. I reject all the modern corrupted translations. You can vote all the translations you want and twist the Greek how you will. The wording is clear in the context from the KJV.

But that is a 45 hour talk. You can mock me for that all you want, but I have many reasons for it.

 

[ClementofA]

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"(Titus 1:2)"

The question immediately should be, when did God "promise" this to men?.

My question is, why did the KJV deceive people with that translation?

A literal translation is "before times aionion". But KJV changed the Spirit inspired Word of God into "before the world began".

The proper Greek word for "world" is KOSMOS, but KJV mistranslated CHRONON AIONION (times eonian) as "world began". Thereby KJV mutilated the Word of God. The Greek word for "world" is KOSMOS, not CHRONON or AIONION.

And the KJV word "began" is not CHRONON (=time).

 

[LoveofTruth]

My question is, why did the KJV deceive people with that translation?

A literal translation is "before times aionion". But KJV changed the Spirit inspired Word of God into "before the world began".

The proper Greek word for "world" is KOSMOS, but KJV mistranslated CHRONON AIONION (times eonian) as "world began". Thereby KJV mutilated the Word of God. The Greek word for "world" is KOSMOS, not CHRONON or AIONION.

And the KJV word "began" is not CHRONON (=time).

"As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began"(Luke 1:70 KJV)

when did the prophets start to speak? and when was "since the world began"?

also the use of the words everlasting and eternal in our english have variances of usage as well as the Greek words. They can in fact be more loose and have subtle variations than the English. There are idioms in all different language and some of them cannot bear a literal translation into other languages. So to trust in Yonge Literal translation is not wise. And His translation doesn't even make sense.

I read this a while ago also (this is my attempt to translate from old language.

"It has been shown that AIOON, used without the preposition EIS, may be applied, without any ambiguity, to this world, or to the present state of existence. And this answers to the other passage in Luke 1:70- "holy prophets, which have been since the world began", AP EPEKEINA,
DR C. says again, "the particle, ETI and EPEKEINA, are sometimes added in the Septuagint version of the old testament, to the word AIOON, to give it greater emphasis: Whereas, should we add the English words, answerable to those Greek particles, to the word eternity, it would make evident nonsense; as one may readily perceive upon trial." (
Universalism confounds and destroys itself; or Letters to a Friend; in four parts. Part I. Dr. Huntington's and Mr. Relly's Scheme, which denies all future punishment, shown to be made up of contradictions. Part II. Dr. Chauncy's, Mr. Winchester's, Petitpierre's, and ... Dr. Young's Scheme, which supposes a limited punishment hereafter, shown to be made up of contradictions, etc)

and

" The doctor shows, however, that the Jews used AIOON without any addition excepting the preposition EIS and used it in the most universal sense; to include all worlds, all dispensations, and all duration..."

you may want to read this old book

Universalism confounds and destroys itself; or Letters to a Friend; in four parts. Part I. Dr. Huntington's and Mr. Relly's Scheme, which denies all future punishment, shown to be made up of contradictions. Part II. Dr. Chauncy's, Mr. Winchester's, Petitpierre's, and ... Dr. Young's Scheme, which supposes a limited punishment hereafter, shown to be made up of contradictions, etc

 

[LoveofTruth]

My question is, why did the KJV deceive people with that translation?

A literal translation is "before times aionion". But KJV changed the Spirit inspired Word of God into "before the world began".

The proper Greek word for "world" is KOSMOS, but KJV mistranslated CHRONON AIONION (times eonian) as "world began". Thereby KJV mutilated the Word of God. The Greek word for "world" is KOSMOS, not CHRONON or AIONION.

And the KJV word "began" is not CHRONON (=time).

I also noticed how you just avoided all the s scriptural evidence I gave showing the context of eternal life being Jesus Christ.

just avoiding scripture in this instance won't help your error

universalism has been exposed again as wrong

you cannot just try to play with words and avoid context and specific usuages of the word etc. In our english word have meanings as well and they also have subtle nuances and usages that seem to differ depending on how we use them. This fact seems to have escaped you and you stick tenaciously to your erroneous understanding of "aionios" as it relates to God, Jesus Christ and God's power etc.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved

No they won't

we read

1 Peter 4:17,18 KJV
"17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

 

[ClementofA]

No they won't

we read

1 Peter 4:17,18 KJV
"17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
18 And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

Peter asks these questions. Does he know the answer to them?

Saved from what? Going to Hades? The lake of fire? Then being saved when the lake of fire (the 2nd death) is abolished when death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes All "in all" (v.28), even all who were in Adam (v.22).

Compare from the same chapter of 1 Pet.4:

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

and from 1 Pet 3:

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

and here Peter speaks again:

Acts 3:21 whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of restoration of all, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.

And Paul:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."


https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

my threads:

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

 

[LoveofTruth]

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
18 And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

Peter asks these questions. Does he know the answer to them?

Saved from what? Going to Hades? The lake of fire?

Peter says further in His next letter

"...whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; [spoil entirely in Greek, no hint of them not continuing in this state]

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,"(2 Peter 2:3-21 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Acts 3:21 whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of restoration of all, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.

"21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."


The word "restitution" or "restore" here does not mean that men will be "saved" afterwards in the world to come or eternally. We read from Matthew,

"11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.(Matthew 17:11 KJV)

This is the same expression but obviously this does not mean that before Jesus would do His own work that John the baptist must first save all men. This is not what is meant. This is obvious for why would Jesus need to come then?

 

[ClementofA]

"21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."


The word "restitution" or "restore" here does not mean that men will be "saved" afterwards in the world to come or eternally. We read from Matthew,

"11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.(Matthew 17:11 KJV)

This is the same expression but obviously this does not mean that before Jesus would do His own work that John the baptist must first save all men. This is not what is meant. This is obvious for why would Jesus need to come then?

"Peter repeats this soon after, announcing the eventual restoration, in Acts 3:24: “all the prophets […] foretold these days,” that is, those of the universal apokatastasis. In the immediate continuation of Peter’s speech, the fulfilment of this prophecy is linked to the accomplishment of the promise made to Abraham, the benediction of all families of the earth in his progeny. Now, this will be accomplished in the eschatological times as well, and will be an action of God." (Ramelli, p.14, in the following).

Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp.)


Acts 3:25 And you are sons of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers, when He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all the families of the earth will be blessed.'

Gen.12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Psalm 72:11
Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

Psalm 102:15
So the nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth Your glory.

Psalm 138:4
All the kings of the earth will give thanks to You, O LORD, When they have heard the words of Your mouth.

Isaiah 60
2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you. 3"Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate.

Isa.45:22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23"I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousnessAnd will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.24"They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame

The context of Dan.12:2-3 suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further." (Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?


Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

 

[ClementofA]

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; [spoil entirely in Greek, no hint of them not continuing in this state]

and these, as irrational natural beasts, made to be caught and destroyed -- in what things they are ignorant of, speaking evil -- in their destruction shall be destroyed, (YLT)

The word "destroyed" (2 Pet.2:12b) is the same as at 2 Cor.3:17:

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

In context this is for the person's salvation:

1 Cor.5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

God's judgements are salvific:

"My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." (Isa.26:9)

The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for CORRECTION[“κολαζω] in the day of judging. (2 Pet.2:9)

The Online Bible Greek Lexicon gives the primary meanings of “κολαζω”as:
1. to lop or prune
2. to chastise, correct, punish

Abbott-Smith's A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament gives the meanings:
1. to curtail, dock, prune
2. to check, restrain
3. to chastise, correct, punish

Hebrews speaks of those who reject Christ as deserving a "sorer" punishment than death by Moses' law, i.e. stoning:

10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so horrific as being tortured forever, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an eternal tormentor who abandons forever the beings He created in His image & likeness so easily.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[ClementofA]

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

Very few versions say "for ever" as KJV. The vast majority do not have those two words:

2Peter 2:17 - Bible Gateway

"for ever] The two last words are omitted in some of the best MSS. and versions."

"...The words "for ever" are omitted in the Vatican and Sinaitic Manuscripts..."

2 Peter 2:17 Commentaries: These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.

"Forever

The best texts omit."

[Vincent's Word Studies]

"The best authorities omit the ‘for ever’ of the A. V. "

2 Peter 2:17 - These are springs... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Also the words εἰς αἰώνα [eis aiōna] do not mean "for ever" but literally "into age". Compare:

Young's Literal Translation
These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[LoveofTruth]

and from 1 Pet 3:

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

and here Peter speaks again:

Acts 3:21 whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of restoration of all, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.

And Paul:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

The word “preached” there does not mean the same as the word “preach the gospel”. The word “preached” there is to herald or proclaim something. This is not for evangelizing or preaching the gospel for salvation to those that repent and believe.

Jesus simply descended to the lower parts of the earth and led captivity captive he heralded what he had done for them and took them out of paradise leading captivity captive.

Kerusso- of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel):--preacher(-er), proclaim, publish.”

Ephesians 4 - 8. “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?”

Also the word “preached” as in preached the gospel the is different than used byPeter word “preached here is

Euaggelizo-from 2095 and 32; to announce good news ("evangelize") especially the gospel:--declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel).

Acts 14 - 21. And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,”

 

[LoveofTruth]

Very few versions say "for ever" as KJV. The vast majority do not have those two words:

2Peter 2:17 - Bible Gateway

"for ever] The two last words are omitted in some of the best MSS. and versions."

"...The words "for ever" are omitted in the Vatican and Sinaitic Manuscripts..."

2 Peter 2:17 Commentaries: These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.

"Forever

The best texts omit."

[Vincent's Word Studies]

"The best authorities omit the ‘for ever’ of the A. V. "

2 Peter 2:17 - These are springs... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Also the words εἰς αἰώνα [eis aiōna] do not mean "for ever" but literally "into age". Compare:

Young's Literal Translation
These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

That’s why I am a KJV bible Christian and don’t follow the corrupted manuscripts that disagree with each other in thousands of places

But again that’s a 45 hour talk

 

[LoveofTruth]

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so horrific as being tortured forever, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an eternal tormentor who abandons forever the beings He created in His image & likeness so easily.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

This is your human reasoning again, we have already been though this one .

Read carefully the text from THE bible

Hebrews 10 - 27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

I think words like ,”fearful, fiery indignation, judgement, much sorer punishment, vengeance, devour,” are serious and horrific enough for the lost.

Again, as usual your entire argument shatters at a few simple verses in scripture taken as they are written. We don’t even need to rush in some frantic search for a remote translator or some erroneous version or Greek word answer these things. All that is needed is simple scripture .

 

[LoveofTruth]

It's no contradiction when you understand that "aionion times" had a beginning, which is implied by the fact that there was a "before" these "aionion times". As Titus 1:2 says:

before eternal times (ACVI Greek-English Interlinear)
before the ages of time (IGNT Greek-English Interlinear)
before times eternal (Apostolic Greek Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear) Study Bible - Online Greek Hebrew KJV Parallel Interlinear Tools
before times eonian (Online Greek-English Interlinear) http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit1.pdf
before time eternal (Greek-English Interlinear)
Titus 1:2 Interlinear: upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,


Therefore, since aionion/eonian has a beginning in the Scriptures, it can never be eternal in the past. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.



The deceptive KJV obscures the fact of God's Word [and the Holy Spirit's] teaching that there was "before times aionion" & therefore "times aionion" are not eternal in the past. It follows from that that what is aionion cannot be eternal in the past.

Titus 1:2

KJV In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Aside from the mistranslation "eternal" in some of the following versions, they translate the phrase in question - προ χρονων αιωνιων (pro chronon aionion) [before times eonian] - more accurately than KJV:

Berean Literal Bible
in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time eternal
Jubilee Bible 2000
for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages
American Standard Version
in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;
Darby Bible Translation
in [the] hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time,
English Revised Version
in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal;
Weymouth New Testament
in hope of the Life of the Ages which God, who is never false to His word, promised before the commencement of the Ages.
Young's Literal Translation
upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,

AMP based on the hope and divine guarantee of eternal life, [the life] which God, who is ever truthful and without deceit, promised before the ages of time began,
DLNT on-the-basis-of the hope of eternal life which the non-lying God promised before eternal times—
EHV based on the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.
ESV in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
ESVUK in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
EXB That faith and that knowledge ·come from [or lead to] the ·hope for [confidence/certainty of] ·life forever [eternal life], which God, who never lies, promised to us before ·time began [L eternal times].
JUB for the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages
LEB in the hope of eternal life which God, who does not lie, promised before eternal ages,
MOUNCE for the sake of the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before times eternal,
NRSV in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVA in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVACE in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NRSVCE in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—
NTE in the hope of the life of the coming age. God, who never lies, promised this before the ages began,
OJB The mekor (basis) of this is a tikvah of Chayyei Olam which Hashem Who cannot speak sheker [BAMIDBAR 24:19; SHMUEL ALEF 15:29] promised before the Yamim HaOlam (days of eternity),

in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian (CLV)
In hope of life age-abiding; which God, who cannot lie, promised before age-during times, (Ro)
in hope of life age-lasting, which promised the not false God before times age-lasting, (Diag)
on hope of eternal life which the God who does not lie promised before the eternal times (GLT)

before eternal times (ACVI Greek-English Interlinear)
before the ages of time (IGNT Greek-English Interlinear)
before times eternal (Apostolic Greek Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear) Study Bible - Online Greek Hebrew KJV Parallel Interlinear Tools
before times eonian (Online Greek-English Interlinear) http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/tit1.pdf
before time eternal (Greek-English Interlinear)
Titus 1:2 Interlinear: upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

It is interesting that whenever anyone disagrees with you who quotes from THE bible (the KJV) and uses the manuscripts and Greek for the KJV, you attack with the corrupted versions and twist of words.

I can see how whole different religions can be invented using the other corrupted versions of the bible. A different Jesus, a different gospel and salvation can be invented using the corrupt manuscripts.

This is the real issue at stake here not the error of universalism. When plain scripture that a child could understand is twisted and made to say the opposite of what it says by some fancy word twisting and by using corrupt manuscripts and translations this causes great confusion.

This is the real discussion underneath this false universalism talk.

It should be obvious to the reader after hearing the many other contradictory versions and twist of Geek words as we see here.

It’s almost as if some are soo puffed up in their carnal reasonings that they think no one could ever understand the bible unless they know what they do.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Very few versions say "for ever" as KJV. The vast majority do not have those two words:

2Peter 2:17 - Bible Gateway

"for ever] The two last words are omitted in some of the best MSS. and versions."

"...The words "for ever" are omitted in the Vatican and Sinaitic Manuscripts..."

2 Peter 2:17 Commentaries: These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.

"Forever

The best texts omit."

[Vincent's Word Studies]

"The best authorities omit the ‘for ever’ of the A. V. "

2 Peter 2:17 - These are springs... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Also the words εἰς αἰώνα [eis aiōna] do not mean "for ever" but literally "into age". Compare:

Young's Literal Translation
These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

The word “aionios” in Greek means

“from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).“

Plain and simple in the context it is used

The gift of God is eternal life . When Christ dwells in our hearts this is God’s gift to us and so eternal life is in the Son of God Jesus Christ and He is in all believers