What Does Aionios Mean in Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9? (part 1)

[LoveofTruth]

Word of Truth, how is it that you ignore evidence when seeking the truth? You presented a fallacious argument to start the discussion. Since then you've not provided a single passage that say what you claim. Instead you've given passage from which you've inferred your doctrine. In addition you've not addressed the passages or questions that refute what you claim.

I don't know how many times I can show you the clear scriptures that you simply deny. You cannot believe them or all your talk will have to be rebuked.

the heresy of universalism is dangerous and another gospel as i see it. Read the scriptures I give again and see that they directly say what i am saying. maybe you just cannot see, no matter how you look, some things cannot be known unless you are spiritual 1 Cor 2.

All I can say is that those who read on examine the scriptures shown and know who eternal life is, in the context I used the verses. Jesus Chris is the life and eternal life. In Him is eternal life.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Word of Truth, how is it that you ignore evidence when seeking the truth? You presented a fallacious argument to start the discussion. Since then you've not provided a single passage that say what you claim. Instead you've given passage from which you've inferred your doctrine. In addition you've not addressed the passages or questions that refute what you claim.

You seem to say you don;t have Jesus Christ in you all I can say is this verse

"2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

 

[Butch5]

I don't know how many times I can show you the clear scriptures that you simply deny. You cannot believe them or all your talk will have to be rebuked.

the heresy of universalism is dangerous and another gospel as i see it. Read the scriptures I give again and see that they directly say what i am saying. maybe you just cannot see, no matter how you look, some things cannot be known unless you are spiritual 1 Cor 2.

All I can say is that those who read on examine the scriptures shown and know who eternal life is, in the context I used the verses. Jesus Chris is the life and eternal life. In Him is eternal life.

You haven't shown anything. You've posted a boat load of Scripture passages and not one said Jesus is eternal life. Your "inferences" are not Scripture. That you won't answer doesn't surprise me. I don't think you're even really paying attention because I never said anything about Universalism and I don't espouse it. I think it's more about propaganda than truth.

 

[Butch5]

You seem to say you don;t have Jesus Christ in you all I can say is this verse

"2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

If you've concluded that I'd have to conclude that your're really not following the conversation.

 

[LoveofTruth]

If you've concluded that I'd have to conclude that your're really not following the conversation.

You said

"Are you literally inside of Jesus?"

Jesus said,

John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

and we read

1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

2 Corinthians 13:3
"Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."


the issue is that we are talking about a deep spiritual reality of the father Son and Holy Ghost being IN believers, as scripture says. We don;t just have the Father in us we have the Son also, and the Holy Ghost .

 

[LoveofTruth]

You've posted a boat load of Scripture passages and not one said Jesus is eternal life.

I don't need to infer anything or interpret, scripture speaks clear, all I do is highlight certain words to notice.

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15)

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

 

[LoveofTruth]

You've posted a boat load of Scripture passages and not one said Jesus is eternal life. .

"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

 

[LoveofTruth]

You've posted a boat load of Scripture passages and not one said Jesus is eternal life.

Does it have to be pointed out in every detail

ok

""That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

John says he saw handled the Word of life. This Word of life is the Word that was with God and the Word was God, this Word was made flesh, and they saw the Word. How do we see the Word? John is telling us how, that Word is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is the Life, eternal life. God was manifested in the flesh and the eternal life was also manifest in the flesh. This is the Word which was made flesh.

 

[LoveofTruth]

some may wonder how can the Sun in the sky be in the sky above and yet in every dew drop in the morning?. Just look in each dew drop and you will see the Sun.

or look into a broken mirror and you will see your reflection in every piece.

 

[LoveofTruth]

paying attention because I never said anything about Universalism and I don't espouse it..

glad you don't believe universalism. If my words seemed to include you I apologize they are still true however, universalism is heresy.

But the other issue I pointed out defeats the use of "aionios" in the context I used it

and Jesus Chris is in every believer

 

[ClementofA]

"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Quite the opposite. I am showing that that is your argument as you deny "eternal life" to be endless in the past. eternal life is Jesus Christ Himself.

Time, or eternity, in the past goes "beyond aionios life". There is scripture that proves there was "before" aionios life, so aionios life is not eternal, at least not in the past:

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

We see here that the "times eonian"(aionion) had a beginning:

in expectation of life eonian[aioniou], which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian[aionion], (Titus 1:2, CLV)

before eternal times (Titus 1:2, Greek-English Interlinear, ACVI):
Online Parallel Study Bibles

Obviously there cannot be a "before eternal" past time. That would be nonsense. Therefore these "eternal"[aionion/eonian] times must have had a beginning.

Likewise with 2 Tim.1:9,

G4253προG5550χρόνωνG166αιωνίων
.....BEFORE.........TIMES.......AIONION(EONIAN)

"before times of the ages[aionion]":

2 Timothy 1:9 Interlinear: who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, (2 Tim.1:9, CLV)

Similarly 1 Cor.2:7 speaks of "before the eons"[aionon], i.e. "before the ages" (NASB).
And Jude 1:25 says "before all the eons"[aionos], i.e. "before all ages" (NIV).

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

So whatever you think of the "aionios life" in John 1:2, it cannot be eternal in the past and had a beginning.

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

Speaking of OLAM, we now turn to Dan.12:2-3, which also supports the above position:

The context suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life
and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
(Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere
and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Time, or eternity, in the past goes "beyond aionios life". There is scripture that proves there was "before" aionios life, so aionios life is not eternal, at least not in the past:

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

This is more of your confusing words.

Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, the Son of God and he had no beginning. Eternal means perpetual, never ending. It goes both way, never ending or never beginning. eternally existent always. Jesus Christ is said to be eternal life, you seem to fight against plain scriptures.

Jesus Christ had no beginning he is before all things .

"13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom [the Son] we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him [the Son] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him [the Son], and for him [the Son]:

17 And he [the Son] is before all things, and by him [the Son] all things consist.

18 And he [the Son] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"(Colossians 1:13-19 KJV)

and

"3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."(Hebrews 7:3 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Time, or eternity, in the past goes "beyond aionios life". There is scripture that proves there was "before" aionios life, so aionios life is not eternal, at least not in the past:

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

We see here that the "times eonian"(aionion) had a beginning:

in expectation of life eonian[aioniou], which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian[aionion], (Titus 1:2, CLV)

before eternal times (Titus 1:2, Greek-English Interlinear, ACVI):
Online Parallel Study Bibles

Obviously there cannot be a "before eternal" past time. That would be nonsense. Therefore these "eternal"[aionion/eonian] times must have had a beginning.

Likewise with 2 Tim.1:9,

G4253προG5550χρόνωνG166αιωνίων
.....BEFORE.........TIMES.......AIONION(EONIAN)

"before times of the ages[aionion]":

2 Timothy 1:9 Interlinear: who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, (2 Tim.1:9, CLV)

Similarly 1 Cor.2:7 speaks of "before the eons"[aionon], i.e. "before the ages" (NASB).
And Jude 1:25 says "before all the eons"[aionos], i.e. "before all ages" (NIV).

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

So whatever you think of the "aionios life" in John 1:2, it cannot be eternal in the past and had a beginning.

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

Speaking of OLAM, we now turn to Dan.12:2-3, which also supports the above position:

The context suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life
and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
(Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere
and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

you cannot simply define the spiritual meaning of a scripture or word by the Greek meaning, the context defines the meaning

these verses show clearly that Jesus Chris is the Life, and that life is eternal life

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15) Here we see that this eternal life can be in a person or not in them. It is a state of being in Christ or not, of having Jesus Christ in them or not. It is not an age or temporary thing. So again you are corrected.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. "(1 John 1"1-2 KJV). So John says he saw and handled the Word of life. You might also say, "how does a person handle and see the Word of life?". Well, that Word was with God and that Word is God, and that Word was made flesh. In Him ( that is in the Word of God) was LIFE. That life John declares as "eternal life" which was WITH the father. Jesus said he was "with" the father before the worlds were John 17:5 KJV. The "eternal life that John is shewing was "WITH" the father, and was MANIFESTED UNTO US. God was MANIFEST IN THE FLESH. God is everlasting and eternal in His life and power and all that He is. He is perpetual, never beginning or ending. He Jesus is the first and the last the Alpha and Omega as scripture teaches. So again you are corrected. The context clearly says The Son of God is eternal life and was with the Father.

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." Here we see that all believers have eternal life as a present reality and he defines that eternal life as the LIFE in his Son. This discussion goes into the mystery of Christ in you the hope of glory and of God real life in all believers. This eternal life is the word of God sown and the word abideth forever as peter said,"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."(1 Peter 1:22-25 KJV). So again, this word in believers is Jesus Christ in them, This Word of life John declares and says this life is eternal life in the Son. So again you are corrected.


1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." Having the Son is a present reality of having life, now and this life is eternal life for it is the word that abideth forever in them.

1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." Again, John clearly says who the Son of God is, He is the true God and eternal life. He doesn't say he gives you an age life, no he says he IS eternal life. So again you are corrected by scripture.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." To have everlasting life is a present reality to those he spoke to and an ongoing everlasting life because as they abide in Christ they live in the word of God that abideth forever. So you are corrected by scripture again.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Notice the present tense "is passed", and John refers to everlasting life as the life in many cases as he does in 1 John as well. So again you are corrected by scripture.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." Again a "present tense reality" by faith in Jesus Christ. That is because Jesus Christ is eternal life, everlasting life. He is the LIFE and He never ends. So again you are corrected by scripture.


As i said before just rushing in a frantic freeze to find the meaning of a Greek word as if that will help you escape your error here is not going to help in this case. It is like those who would look at the word "Church" ekklesia, and try to define the church by the Greek form of government where the word was taken. No the church is the body of Christ. But if you ask a Greek scholar of the time when the word was used and ask them is the ekklesia the body of Christ? they would say no, it is a form of assembly in our government a call out assembly.

But they would be wrong, no matter how much they try to define the actual word.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Time, or eternity, in the past goes "beyond aionios life". There is scripture that proves there was "before" aionios life, so aionios life is not eternal, at least not in the past:

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

We see here that the "times eonian"(aionion) had a beginning:

in expectation of life eonian[aioniou], which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian[aionion], (Titus 1:2, CLV)

before eternal times (Titus 1:2, Greek-English Interlinear, ACVI):
Online Parallel Study Bibles

Obviously there cannot be a "before eternal" past time. That would be nonsense. Therefore these "eternal"[aionion/eonian] times must have had a beginning.

Likewise with 2 Tim.1:9,

G4253προG5550χρόνωνG166αιωνίων
.....BEFORE.........TIMES.......AIONION(EONIAN)

"before times of the ages[aionion]":

2 Timothy 1:9 Interlinear: who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, (2 Tim.1:9, CLV)

Similarly 1 Cor.2:7 speaks of "before the eons"[aionon], i.e. "before the ages" (NASB).
And Jude 1:25 says "before all the eons"[aionos], i.e. "before all ages" (NIV).

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

So whatever you think of the "aionios life" in John 1:2, it cannot be eternal in the past and had a beginning.

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

Speaking of OLAM, we now turn to Dan.12:2-3, which also supports the above position:

The context suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life
and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
(Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere
and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

The word eternal life here is connected to Jesus Christ and God therefore, unless you want to say God is an age or temporary you are corrected. When the word is used in relation to God snd His power or nature or character and person wether in the person of the Son or the Father or the Holy Ghost it is always perpetual never ending eternal everlasting.

Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. God is also said to be eternal and everlasting.

Duet 33:27, Heb 9:14, 1 John 5: 20, Genesis 21:33, psalm 90:2, Romans 16:22 etc

 

[LoveofTruth]

This is your wacky twisted heresy.

Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, the Son of God and he had no beginning. Eternal means perpetual, never ending. It goes both way, never ending or never beginning. eternally existent always. Jesus Christ is said to be eternal life, you seem to fight against plain scriptures.

Jesus Christ had no beginning he is before all things .

"13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom [the Son] we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him [the Son] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him [the Son], and for him [the Son]:

17 And he [the Son] is before all things, and by him [the Son] all things consist.

18 And he [the Son] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"(Colossians 1:13-19 KJV)

and

"3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."(Hebrews 7:3 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Time, or eternity, in the past goes "beyond aionios life". There is scripture that proves there was "before" aionios life, so aionios life is not eternal, at least not in the past:

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

 

[ClementofA]

This is more of your confusing words.

Eternal means perpetual, never ending. It goes both way, never ending or never beginning. eternally existent always. Jesus Christ is said to be eternal life, you seem to fight against plain scriptures.

Incorrect. Scripture speaks of "before aionion times". Therefore before "aionion life". So aionion life can't be eternal in the past.

Jesus Christ had no beginning he is before all things .

Of course. Did you think that remark has anything to do with the topic? It doesn't.

 

[ClementofA]

...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

The word eternal life here is connected to Jesus Christ and God therefore, unless you want to say God is an age or temporary

You don't understand. God is both the God of ages, the God before ages, & the God after ages. He is the God of the present age that is finite & will end. That doesn't make God "temporary".

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[LoveofTruth]

You don't understand. God is both the God of ages, the God before ages, & the God after ages. He is the God of the present age that is finite & will end. That doesn't make God "temporary".

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

No, you don't understand, your translations you site don't even make sense

"and declare to you the Life, the age-during,"

????

the scripture i showed you show clearly that the eternal life IS God and Jesus Christ.

"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

God is life and the Word is life, the Word is God, the word "abideth forever". There never was a time when God was not the life, there never was a time past or future when the Word was not life. That life is "eternal life,', "everlasting life", never ending or and going back in time eternally for His life is always. It is not right to say God is age life, or life of an age. That does not work in context of the verses about God.

And so is a person has the Son they have eternal life. That eternal life is in the word which abideth for ever and this is the life which is eternal life.

Jesus Christ said those who believe have present tense) eternal life). To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). And how long are believers going to know Him? forever without end, never ending everlasting.

"3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."( John 17:3 KJV)

When speaking of God's character and nature and power the word "aeons" always has an eternal everlasting , perpetual, never ending

"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

and

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life [what life is that he speaks of?, the LIFE in His Son, this is eternal life. For jesus Christ is always and ever will be and he is the Word of God that abideth forever, if we are born again by the word of God and abide in faith we abide forever in Him] is in his Son.[only IN the Son does any have His life and His life is eternal life]

I marvel that you cannot see this.

Context is everything. If a word is used in a certain way it does not mean it always is used that way. When using "aionios" in connection with Jesus Christ and Gods character and power etc. It is everlasting, eternal, perpetual, never ending always is etc.

"There are idioms in language which do not bear a literal translation into another language"



1+1=2

 

[Der Alte]

Begin quote

No, you don't understand, your translations you site don't even make sense
"and declare to you the Life, the age-during,"
????
the scripture i showed you show clearly that the eternal life IS God and Jesus Christ.
"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
God is life and the Word is life, the Word is God, the word "abideth forever". There never was a time when God was not the life, there never was a time past or future when the Word was not life. That life is "eternal life,', "everlasting life", never ending or and going back in time eternally for His life is always. It is not right to say God is age life, or life of an age. That does not work in context of the verses about God.
And so is a person has the Son they have eternal life. That eternal life is in the word which abideth for ever and this is the life which is eternal life.
Jesus Christ said those who believe have present tense) eternal life). To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). And how long are believers going to know Him? forever without end, never ending everlasting.
"3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."( John 17:3 KJV)
When speaking of God's character and nature and power the word "aeons" always has an eternal everlasting , perpetual, never ending
"...Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
and
1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life [what life is that he speaks of?, the LIFE in His Son, this is eternal life. For jesus Christ is always and ever will be and he is the Word of God that abideth forever, if we are born again by the word of God and abide in faith we abide forever in Him] is in his Son.[only IN the Son does any have His life and His life is eternal life]
I marvel that you cannot see this.
Context is everything. If a word is used in a certain way it does not mean it always is used that way. When using "aionios" in connection with Jesus Christ and Gods character and power etc. It is everlasting, eternal, perpetual, never ending always is etc.
"There are idioms in language which do not bear a literal translation into another language"
1+1=2

End

Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιοςaionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In Romans 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26 Paul refers to God as “aionios,” therefore Paul considers “aidios” and “aionios” to be synonymous.