What do you believe (creation/evolution)?

[SoliDeoGloria12]

The Bible is quite clear.

 

[theFijian]

Creationists are creationists because their parents are/were creationists, they believe what their parents believe,
some choice.

Is that what your parents believed? So likewise you also believe it? Some choice.

 

[Hespera]

The Bible is quite clear.

i dont think it says "go forth and form 37,000 sects each with a different interpretation of my clear words"

Did you get the one true and inerrant interpretation?

Do you obey the command about witches?

Interesting poll. Either one believes the Word of God, or he/she doesny

no, there is another possibility or two you dont consider.

it is or isnt actually the word of god

god does or does not actually exist

IF everyone actually believed it was the word of god, there'd be dang few didnt believe that they should follow his word.

 

[chris4243]

Interesting poll. Either one believes the Word of God, or he/she doesn't. We walk by faith and not by sight. I cannot fathom anyone calling him/herself a Christian and not believing God's Word. His Word is revelatory and as such, more is revealed as we move further into the faith. By not accepting basic tenets of the faith, the walk is circular and to me, irrelevant. Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. To reject the Word, is to reject Him.

Jesus often told His followers stories, often without hinting at their being metaphorical or non-literal. Must I believe the events in the stories Jesus told, were in fact literally true?

 

[Jazer]

IF everyone actually believed it was the word of god, there'd be dang few didnt believe that they should follow his word.

My wife seems to think that there are people who do not believe in God that do better at following the teaching of the Bible then the people who believe there is a God.

 

[Jazer]

Must I believe the events in the stories Jesus told, were in fact literally true?

Oh, that is easy, He uses a real name when the story is true. If it is just an allegory then he does not use a real name. Jesus was the greatest teacher that ever lived. The way He teaches is the best way to teach.

 

[SoliDeoGloria12]

In answer to your question, Hespera, yes I did. And thank God I did. Sorry if you didn't.

Let God be true, but every man/woman a liar (Romans 3:4)

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the substance of things unseen. (Hebrews 11:1)

... be not faithless, but believing (John 20:27)

For the faithless: Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Luke 8:12)

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1 - 3)

Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him. (1 Samuel 3:7)

Believers are cut from a different cloth. Each year a new evolutionary theory comes along debunking the others. I've lost count as I have no interest. True followers of Christ believe that the Word of God is in errant (read John 1). I am not here to debate or debunk your ideas as the Word of God creates new life in believers everyday (1 Cor 15:31) and we will not be dissuaded. A carnal mind is corrupt and nothing true can come from it, because they do not, nor cannot perceive the Truth. Jesus Christ, for us, is the Truth, the Life, and the Way. And yes, again, we believe His Word set up the foundation of this world, and that His Word is inerrant.

 

[SoliDeoGloria12]

Oh, that is easy, He uses a real name when the story is true. If it is just an allegory then he does not use a real name. Jesus was the greatest teacher that ever lived. The way He teaches is the best way to teach.

Amen!

 

[Hespera]

My wife seems to think that there are people who do not believe in God that do better at following the teaching of the Bible then the people who believe there is a God.

i dont doubt that some atheists are a lot more moral and ethical than some christians.

Actually, the basic sorts of lessons taught in the bible are common to many maybe most cultures.

if the mafia, who are said to be catholic, are an example belief in god doesnt necessarily make for good behaviour.

 

[Tobias]

I see a logical fallacy that seems to permeate this discussion. For some reason we tend to think along the lines of "All or Nothing" when it comes to the Bible. That it magically appeared out of heaven in it's entirety, all 66 books we now have in the Protestant Bible, all accurate as possible from the study of the oldest manuscripts.

Many wish they could apply the "rule" of All or Nothing to everything they say. Because then all they have to do is say one provable truth, and then everything they say after that is taken as truth by default. This is what we do with the Bible, no? Find one provable statement, then simply assume that the rest is completely true and without error? Yet to do so is illogical, and takes a leap of faith.

I'm sure the Catholic Church tried to apply this same fallacy with people like Galileo and other scientists. "The Church says the world is flat. It also says the Jesus is Lord." You simply cannot believe one without believing the other now, can you? After all, the Church is infallible, God's revelation to Man here on Earth...

God never said that the Church was infallible. He never said that the Pope was infallible. Yet He let many people believe that for many years. And I imagine He honored some of those who died a martyr's death in defense of their beliefs.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1 - 3)

Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him. (1 Samuel 3:7)


These two passages show beyond doubt that the Word of God is something different than the collection of 66 books that make up the Protestant Bible. The Word of God is much much more! I do not doubt the Word (or at least, I hope I don't when it is revealed to me), but I do doubt that which Man claims is the Word, when it clearly is not!

I most certainly hope that it does not make me any less of a Christian for not believing the false teachings of an imperfect Church! But if it does, then I will happily drop the label of "Christian" in favor of having the freedom to follow God from a clear conscience.

 

[Hespera]

In answer to your question, Hespera, yes I did. And thank God I did. Sorry if you didn't.

Believers are cut from a different cloth. Each year a new evolutionary theory comes along debunking the others. I've lost count as I have no interest. True followers of Christ believe that the Word of God is in errant (read John 1). I am not here to debate or debunk your ideas as the Word of God creates new life in believers everyday (1 Cor 15:31) and we will not be dissuaded. A carnal mind is corrupt and nothing true can come from it, because they do not, nor cannot perceive the Truth. Jesus Christ, for us, is the Truth, the Life, and the Way. And yes, again, we believe His Word set up the foundation of this world, and that His Word is inerrant.

Im sure they all say that they had the amazing luck or skill to find the one true version out of all the thousands.

And you believe you did. ok.

Believers are cut from a different cloth

Whatever that means,since we are not made of cloth. you mean better, smarter, what? Able to know the 'truth' about "noahs ark"?

Each year a new evolutionary theory comes along debunking the others

.

This is not true, and I think your book says something about being a false witness. do you read it, or just not take it seriously when you do?

A carnal mind is corrupt

You wont dare talk like that to me in person. Safety of the internet tho... thats another matter.

And yes, again, we believe His Word set up the foundation of this world, and that His Word is inerrant.

Im sure you do believe that. You didnt, tho address the fact that this requires that you belief as much in yourself, that your interpretation is inerrant.

so when exactly did you become inerrant?

you might like to look at this article (remember how you said. about corrupt carnal people who cant know the truth)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...slike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html

( tnx to california sun for this)

and then perhaps you'd like to reflect on the "b" word. the rest of it goes 'igotry"

 

[Hespera]

I see a logical fallacy that seems to permeate this discussion. For some reason we tend to think along the lines of "All or Nothing" when it comes to the Bible. That it magically appeared out of heaven in it's entirety, all 66 books we now have in the Protestant Bible, all accurate as possible from the study of the oldest manuscripts.

Many wish they could apply the "rule" of All or Nothing to everything they say. Because then all they have to do is say one provable truth, and then everything they say after that is taken as truth by default. This is what we do with the Bible, no? Find one provable statement, then simply assume that the rest is completely true and without error? Yet to do so is illogical, and takes a leap of faith.

I'm sure the Catholic Church tried to apply this same fallacy with people like Galileo and other scientists. "The Church says the world is flat. It also says the Jesus is Lord." You simply cannot believe one without believing the other now, can you? After all, the Church is infallible, God's revelation to Man here on Earth...

God never said that the Church was infallible. He never said that the Pope was infallible. Yet He let many people believe that for many years. And I imagine He honored some of those who died a martyr's death in defense of their beliefs.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1 - 3)

Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him. (1 Samuel 3:7)


These two passages show beyond doubt that the Word of God is something different than the collection of 66 books that make up the Protestant Bible. The Word of God is much much more! I do not doubt the Word (or at least, I hope I don't when it is revealed to me), but I do doubt that which Man claims is the Word, when it clearly is not!

I most certainly hope that it does not make me any less of a Christian for not believing the false teachings of an imperfect Church! But if it does, then I will happily drop the label of "Christian" in favor of having the freedom to follow God from a clear conscience.

For what its worth I dont take an "all or nothing" attitude toward the bible.

Some parts are good wisdom, some are at least reasonably accurate history, some is poetry, some if myth, some is hearsay, some things are 100% not historically accurate, like, say, noahs ark. And unicorns.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

My wife seems to think that there are people who do not believe in God that do better at following the teaching of the Bible then the people who believe there is a God.

Your wife would be correct.

Why do Americans still dislike atheists? - The Washington Post

 

[Hespera]

Your wife would be correct.

Why do Americans still dislike atheists? - The Washington Post

yeah puts me in mind of the self styled good christian who told me that he prays to god every day for word that he should start killing the atheists.

(we are all corrupt and carnal after all)

I made it worse by being an alien asian atheist, not just an ordinary one. so he'd want to go after people like me first.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

yeah puts me in mind of the self styled good christian who told me that he prays to god every day for word that he should start killing the atheists.

(we are all corrupt and carnal after all)

I made it worse by being an alien asian atheist, not just an ordinary one. so he'd want to go after people like me first.

Yep, top of the list for you!

I'm white, so I'm likely to be near the bottom, ... gives me more time to get away.

 

[Greg1234]

i dont think it says "go forth and form 37,000 sects each with a different interpretation of my clear words"

Actually there should be more. There should be as much sects as there are Christians. An interpretation shows that there is a metaphysical component involved while the literal has more physical components. The declaration that one should eat Christ's flesh and drink his blood, is interpreted based on metaphysical aspects. Hence all that is needed to confirm metaphysical reality is that an interpretation is required. This is evident in the multitudes of sects present hence the purpose is served. Discussions are just about working out the details.

Did you get the one true and inerrant interpretation?

Understanding is an ongoing process. The fact that an interpretation is required is already evidence of the truth of metaphysical reality.

Do you obey the command about witches?

There is no need.

no, there is another possibility or two you dont consider.

it is or isnt actually the word of god

One cannot call the existence of light into question just because its behavior around a black hole is being determined.

god does or does not actually exist

Same as above.

IF everyone actually believed it was the word of god, there'd be dang few didnt believe that they should follow his word.

That would be highly unlikely. Naturally, there is also the case of redundancy.

 

[SoliDeoGloria12]

Hespera,

The Bible says that non-beleivers have a corrupt mind and if you challenged me with your fallacies in person I most certainly would "say it in your face". Why in the world you would think that your face would somehow preclude the truth being spoken in front of it is not important to me. Corrupt sounds harsh, I know. But I believe the term to be accurate in that the Light of God is illuminating. I'm not responding to you with malice or contempt. I am stating that we see things differently. For you, your way is and will be right no matter what. And I am sure you believe all of the theories that you have read. I believe that your abilites of perception are also error-filled because you do not have a renewed mind in Jesus Christ.

As for luck, don't need it. I have the Creator of all as my Father and he would not provide error to His children. More is revealed to us. The Bible is our guide, which we choose to follow. He brings us to a fresh understanding and reconciles doubt. I have seen the Lord work miracles and I know that there is nothing that He cannot do, except fail.

There are many theories, and this thing of erroneously calling out Christians as false witnesses is somethng else that I don't get into. I know who and what I am and I walk in the truth. Maybe you should check them out yourself, as I am not interested in pursuing them. But, they are interesting and worthy of looking into - string theory (shares some similarities with Hinduism) and quantum mechanics theories touch on creation. Not trying to belittle you or what you believe to be the truth for you.

The world is a fascinating place. Christians need not fear science because for me, it reveals more of His Glory. I have no issue with others who believe differently as we are all here for different purposes. I hope that God's purpose for you is fulfilled in a way that maximizes who you are as a child of God, if that is what you desire. You seem like a smart person with strong ideas. We are here merely to exchange ideas. I had no intention to offend you, but I must be truthful.

 

[Split Rock]

Hespera,

The Bible says that non-beleivers have a corrupt mind and if you challenged me with your fallacies in person I most certainly would "say it in your face". Why in the world you would think that your face would somehow preclude the truth being spoken in front of it is not important to me. Corrupt sounds harsh, I know. But I believe the term to be accurate in that the Light of God is illuminating. I'm not responding to you with malice or contempt. I am stating that we see things differently. For you, your way is and will be right no matter what. And I am sure you believe all of the theories that you have read. I believe that your abilites of perception are also error-filled because you do not have a renewed mind in Jesus Christ.

So, what are some of the traits of this "corruption?" Is the bible correct about this denounciation, even if reality indicates otherwise? What if instead of seeing things under the illumination of the Light of God, you are actually being misled by Satan? Does the bible not tell us that Satan is the Great Deceiver of Man? How can you know for certain you are not under his influence instead of God's? If you were under Satan's influence, would you be able to tell?

 

[Tobias]

The Bible tells us the Jesus challenged the beliefs and practices of the Pharisees, who were the number one people in His day that "stood on the Word". They believed they were following the Bible, and that Jesus was teaching his disciples to violate the "Word". Yet they were wrong!

Many people disagree with elements of Christianity that are just plain stupid. What they don't realize is, you don't have to be a Liberal, Atheist, or Satanist to disagree with the Religion of Christianity.

 

[Greg1234]

Im sure they all say that they had the amazing luck or skill to find the one true version out of all the thousands.

This is an ongoing process. There is no rush.

Im sure you do believe that. You didnt, tho address the fact that this requires that you belief as much in yourself, that your interpretation is inerrant.

It doesnt have to be inerrant. Just the simple realization that the event is truth and that an interpretation is required. Hence, the creation of man is endowed with even more metaphysical aspects once the need for an interpretation is recognized, further phasing out things like Darwinian evolution. Naturally, we find this in the real world.

so when exactly did you become inerrant?

The words are inerrently espousing a metaphysical reality through an inerrant recognition that a metaphysical interpretation is required. Additionally, they become living truths once they leave the pages and are directly experienced.

you might like to look at this article (remember how you said. about corrupt carnal people who cant know the truth)

Why do Americans still dislike atheists? - The Washington Post

( tnx to california sun for this)

and then perhaps you'd like to reflect on the "b" word. the rest of it goes 'igotry"

How does that idealize materialism? The guys who write these articles should spend a day or two on this forum. Then we can talk.