What are your views on communion?

[cloudyday2]

One of my concerns is communion. I touched on this concern in the other thread, but I wanted to highlight it better with a dedicated thread. I don't know what I think about communion. I had a hallucination related to communion (that is the other time I thought I "saw" Jesus). Also I've sometimes felt like something was trying to keep me from taking communion in church by making me feel like passing out or vomiting. Also when I first started attending church I couldn't stand the smell - it was like being in a sewer. But that seemed to go away after I started taking communion.

So what is communion? How often should people take communion?

When I asked my priest about my hallucination watching communion (which happened at a Methodist church) his first concern was to be sure that I didn't participate. When I said I got scared and couldn't do it after my hallucination then he was relieved. Then he said Methodists don't really have communion because the only real church is the Eastern Orthodox church.

I hope that explains my problem. All these Christian denominations with their contradictory ideas make it really confusing - especially for people who are already confused.

Then on top of everything else, all my problems started when a strange person tried to give me the Bhagavad Gita. So sometimes I wonder if Hinduism is the answer, but I'm too afraid to leave my childhood brainwashing.

Sorry this is so rambling, but it's hard to make confused ideas organized.

 

[Lukaris]

The Lord defines the Eucharist in John 6 & St. Paul gives the guidelines in 1 Corinthians 11 & we must follow those as to know when we can worthily take communion when our respective church offers the sacrament. The Lord is our high priest & I would not tell any other Christian that He is not present in their communion but I know I cannot take their communion outside of the Orthodox Church.







John 6

King James Version (KJV)


48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

1 Corinthians 11

King James Version (KJV)

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

 

[drich0150]

One of my concerns is communion. I touched on this concern in the other thread, but I wanted to highlight it better with a dedicated thread. I don't know what I think about communion. I had a hallucination related to communion (that is the other time I thought I "saw" Jesus). Also I've sometimes felt like something was trying to keep me from taking communion in church by making me feel like passing out or vomiting. Also when I first started attending church I couldn't stand the smell - it was like being in a sewer. But that seemed to go away after I started taking communion.

So what is communion? How often should people take communion?

When I asked my priest about my hallucination watching communion (which happened at a Methodist church) his first concern was to be sure that I didn't participate. When I said I got scared and couldn't do it after my hallucination then he was relieved. Then he said Methodists don't really have communion because the only real church is the Eastern Orthodox church.

I hope that explains my problem. All these Christian denominations with their contradictory ideas make it really confusing - especially for people who are already confused.

Then on top of everything else, all my problems started when a strange person tried to give me the Bhagavad Gita. So sometimes I wonder if Hinduism is the answer, but I'm too afraid to leave my childhood brainwashing.

Sorry this is so rambling, but it's hard to make confused ideas organized.

Are you or do you wish to be a follower of Christ? Or are you simply wanting to know where or not to go through the motions of your 'brain washing?'

 

[cloudyday2]

Are you or do you wish to be a follower of Christ? Or are you simply wanting to know where or not to go through the motions of your 'brain washing?'

I want to do whatever it is that I'm supposed to do. I don't care that much about knowing "the truth", but sometimes I don't want to die and find out that something was trying to guide me and I was too afraid to listen.

Most of my experiences revolve around Christian ideas, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the truth is Christianity. Besides the obvious that my experiences might be mental illness, there is the possibility that something else is trying to use Christian ideas as a readily available vocabulary.

I thought I was a Christian for a couple of years while I was Orthodox, but these questions bothered me. Gradually I started wondering if something evil was trying to trick me into being a Christian so I wouldn't find the real truth. The fact that Christianity makes almost no sense and has so many contradictory beliefs doesn't help.

One time I became frustrated over my anger towards my brother. I was praying and suddenly I decided Christianity was a waste of time. So I started tearing up all my Christian books and throwing them in the trash. Then after I sat down and calmed down, I noticed that a cross I had hanging on my doorknob was gone. I felt a sense of dread, so I apologized to God. Then my cat hissed and the cross was on the floor by my foot. At the time, I felt relieved because it seemed that God accepted my apology. But the idea of an object disappearing and then reappearing bothered me.

I could go on and on, but hopefully that is enough to explain how I feel.

 

[cloudyday2]

The Lord defines the Eucharist in John 6 & St. Paul gives the guidelines in 1 Corinthians 11 & we must follow those as to know when we can worthily take communion when our respective church offers the sacrament. The Lord is our high priest & I would not tell any other Christian that He is not present in their communion but I know I cannot take their communion outside of the Orthodox Church.

In my opinion when an Orthodox is offered communion at a non-Orthodox church and refuses then that is refusing Jesus (if Jesus is present).

Also, on preparation for communion, I think confession is simply a way for a person to "feel" forgiven so that person can come out of hiding and meet Jesus. I think Jesus doesn't condemn anybody, but a person's feelings of guilt can prevent that person from offering themselves to Jesus in communion.

I don't know.

 

[Lukaris]

In my opinion when an Orthodox is offered communion at a non-Orthodox church and refuses then that is refusing Jesus (if Jesus is present).

Also, on preparation for communion, I think confession is simply a way for a person to "feel" forgiven so that person can come out of hiding and meet Jesus. I think Jesus doesn't condemn anybody, but a person's feelings of guilt can prevent that person from offering themselves to Jesus in communion.

I don't know.

It is not a matter of opinion when it comes to discerning the Lord's body.Iif you do not partake of it with the same faith in it that others have then you have a problem. If you are Orthodox, this is something you should really speak to your priest about. when it comes to confession, I suggest you read the 1st chapter of the 1st epistle of John. If you need to speak to other Orthodox Christians online, you might want ot go to the TAW forum within Christian forums (CF).

 

[cloudyday2]

It is not a matter of opinion when it comes to discerning the Lord's body.Iif you do not partake of it with the same faith in it that others have then you have a problem. If you are Orthodox, this is something you should really speak to your priest about. when it comes to confession, I suggest you read the 1st chapter of the 1st epistle of John. If you need to speak to other Orthodox Christians online, you might want ot go to the TAW forum within Christian forums (CF).

Thanks for the feedback. I feel a bit discouraged that nobody seems to get what I'm talking about. But I had to try.

 

[drich0150]

I want to do whatever it is that I'm supposed to do. I don't care that much about knowing "the truth", but sometimes I don't want to die and find out that something was trying to guide me and I was too afraid to listen.

What if you are supposed to care about truth? What if you supoosed to seek it with every fiber of your being? What if going through the motion of religion is more demning than out right turning your back on God?

This is what Jesus is talking about in
Mat 5:
13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

-and spelled out in detail in Rev 3:
The Lukewarm Church

14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[f] write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[g] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”

 

[food4thought]

I'll reply here asap, cloudyday... I just can't right now.

Just wanted you to know I wasn't ignoring this thread.

 

[cloudyday2]

What if you are supposed to care about truth? What if you supoosed to seek it with every fiber of your being? What if going through the motion of religion is more demning than out right turning your back on God?

Thanks, I keep typing and typing on this response trying to explain, but it's hard. I think I will give up for now.

 

[cloudyday2]

I'll reply here asap, cloudyday... I just can't right now.

Just wanted you to know I wasn't ignoring this thread.

Thanks. I don't know how some of you are able to type all those good posts, because it takes me forever to write anything.

 

[drich0150]

Thanks, I keep typing and typing on this response trying to explain, but it's hard. I think I will give up for now.

You have the rest of your life to figure things out.

 

[cloudyday2]

You have the rest of your life to figure things out.

Thanks, here is quote that I like from an Orthodox website. I would agree that this sort of pursuit of truth sounds great, but I also know that I probably would get nowhere with it. I'm lazy and I don't like religion.

In the Orthodox Church we believe that God reveals Himself to us in truth. This means, basically, that as human beings we have the inherent ability to know God directly and simply i.e., personally. Just as Enoch and Noah “walked with God,” (Gen. 5:24, 6:9), and just as Moses “spoke with the Lord face to face, as a man speaks to a friend,” (Ex. 33:11), so are we able to enter into the same intimate communion with the Triune God. The knowledge of God that is the outgrowth of becoming united with Him is what we call theology. As such, all genuine theology is not merely the knowledge about God, but the knowledge of God – because it is experiential in nature.

The Science of Sciences - A Russian Orthodox Church Website : A Russian Orthodox Church Website

 

[Lukaris]

The most important things in living in Christian faith are the basics that are not necessarily easy:

To know the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior see Romans 10:9-13

Know salvation by grace, in faith conducted in good works towards others, see Ephesians 2:8-10

To love God and neighbor, see Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-44

To treat others as you would wan tot be treated. See Matthew 7:12 (& read 7:1-12).

Read the Beatitudes to realize the Lord will bless virtuous Christians & non Christians; this should help clear up much confusion in daily living. (see Matthew 5:1-12).

Pray the Lord's prayer: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%206:9-13&version=KJV

Know & live by the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:1-17).

Rest in the Lord & work from here. There is always plenty to do. go to biblegateway if necessary: BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

 

[food4thought]

One of my concerns is communion. I touched on this concern in the other thread, but I wanted to highlight it better with a dedicated thread. I don't know what I think about communion. I had a hallucination related to communion (that is the other time I thought I "saw" Jesus). Also I've sometimes felt like something was trying to keep me from taking communion in church by making me feel like passing out or vomiting. Also when I first started attending church I couldn't stand the smell - it was like being in a sewer. But that seemed to go away after I started taking communion.

Not sure what to make of these things... it may indeed be signs of a mental breakdown, or it could be demonic. Have you spoken of these experiences with your counselor? I lean towards the demonic attack aspect, myself; but I am not a professional in these matters.

So what is communion? How often should people take communion?

Communion is the modern church's way of keeping the Lord's Supper (Mat 26:26-29; Mar 14:22-25; Luk 22:19-20). It is based upon those three passages as well as some from John 6 and 1st Corinthians 11:20-34. John 6 is the key passage here, IMO. Much of the wierdness surrounding the Lord's Supper in some churches comes from taking certain parts of John 6 WAAAAYYYYYYY too literally... if you look at John 6:25-27, you will see that Jesus started the whole discussion that follows by rebuking the people for not recognizing His sign (miracle that proved who He was), and seeking more physical bread. The whole rest of the chapter is Jesus speaking of His spiritual provision for mankind in terms of the Mana from heaven, and the Jews COMPLETELY misunderstanding Him and thinking of eating His physical flesh and drinking His physical blood (I can almost see the Lord rolling His eyes as He discusses this with them ). Look at this passage from near the end of John 6:

Joh 6:61-63 NKJV When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?(62)What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?(63)It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The flesh profits nothing, it is the Spirit that gives life. His words were not to be taken literally, but spiritually. What does this mean communion is all about, then?

The Lord's Supper is a sacred memorial of what the Lord did for us, the bread represents His body broken for us, the wine/grape juice represents His blood shed for us... it is more than just a symbolic ritual, as a proper heart and mind when participating in communion brings us very near to the Lord, but the whole idea of transubstanciation and similar teachings are just taking the Lord too literally, which as John 6:61-63 shows He never intended. To me, the Lord becomes present in a Spiritual sense when we take communion, and if our hearts are right we are often blessed and rejuvinated in our faith afterwords. In this sense, it is a means of God providing His grace to us, but it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN, ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, TO DO WITH GAINING OUR SALVATION!!! Our salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ's sinless life, substitutionary death in our place, and justifying resurrection.

Hope this helps. Also, as you well know, there are some very Godly men and women who would strongly disagree with me... but I must stand by Scripture, not man's traditions.

 

[food4thought]

When I asked my priest about my hallucination watching communion (which happened at a Methodist church) his first concern was to be sure that I didn't participate. When I said I got scared and couldn't do it after my hallucination then he was relieved. Then he said Methodists don't really have communion because the only real church is the Eastern Orthodox church.

I am mostly unfamiliar with the Eastern Orthodox Church, but if I'm not mistaken they believe in something like transubstanciation, and that the grace for this change to happen in the bread and wine is brought by the blessing that the Orthodox priests give them... so any other church's communion isn't REALLY communion because the bread and wne weren't properly blessed by the Orhtodox priests... stuff like this just makes me want to kick stuff around or sit rocking in a corner, crying. Here is what the Bible has to say on this kind of "we're the only REAL church" attitude:

1Co 3:1-9 NKJV

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. (2) I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; (3) for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? (4) For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal? (5) Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? (6) I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. (7) So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. (8) Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. (9) For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.

and

1Co 12:11-25 NKJV But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. (12) For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. (13) For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (14) For in fact the body is not one member but many. (15) If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body? (16) And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body? (17) If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? (18) But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. (19) And if they were all one member, where would the body be?(20) But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. (21) And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." (22) No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. (23) And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, (24) but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, (25) that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.

and finally

Gal 5:15-25 NKJV But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! (16) I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. (17) For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. (18) But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (19) Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, (20) idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, (21) envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (23) gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (24) And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. (25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

The true body of Christ is made up of every single believer who has lived, lives, or will live between Pentecaust and the rapture of the church sometime in the future... we are spread across many denominations and doctrinal traditions, but we all have the same faith in Jesus.

I hope that explains my problem. All these Christian denominations with their contradictory ideas make it really confusing - especially for people who are already confused.

Yes it can be very frustrating, particularly when some of these denominations each claim to be the only way... All I can do is point you to what I said in the last paragraph above, and of course to the Bible for the real answers.

Then on top of everything else, all my problems started when a strange person tried to give me the Bhagavad Gita. So sometimes I wonder if Hinduism is the answer, but I'm too afraid to leave my childhood brainwashing.

Hinduism is an interesting religion to be sure, but it offers nothing in the end... only a chance at a better rebirth in this same fallen world or eventually release from the cycle and being re-absorbed (for lack of a better english term) into the impersonal god-force. No redemption, forgiveness, or eternal hope.

 

[cloudyday2]

...
The true body of Christ is made up of every single believer who has lived, lives, or will live between Pentecaust and the rapture of the church sometime in the future... we are spread across many denominations and doctrinal traditions, but we all have the same faith in Jesus.
...

That is what I think too. Interestingly the bible study preceding the hallucination was Romans chapter 2 which contains this verse (Romans 2:28-29 NIV):

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 2:28-29 NIV - A person is not a Jew who is one only - Bible Gateway

Anyway, thanks everybody for listening to my issues.

 

[cloudyday2]

The most important things in living in Christian faith are the basics that are not necessarily easy:
...

That is good advice I think.

 

[drich0150]

Thanks, here is quote that I like from an Orthodox website. I would agree that this sort of pursuit of truth sounds great, but I also know that I probably would get nowhere with it. I'm lazy and I don't like religion.


The Science of Sciences - A Russian Orthodox Church Website : A Russian Orthodox Church Website

Does this mean you figured things out? or does it mean that the folks at the russian orthodox church have an idea of what they believe?

 

[cloudyday2]

Does this mean you figured things out? or does it mean that the folks at the russian orthodox church have an idea of what they believe?

I don't know about the Russian Orthodox, but I know I haven't figured anything out.

I did have a good session with the therapist today where I gave her a better idea about the delusions. It was reassuring to explain them to somebody who believes they were nothing but delusions from some mental problem.