What are some logical, alternative interpretations or ways of understanding...

[Neogaia777]

Jesus had a physical body when he resurrected.

A body that could pass through walls and doors, yes...

 

[Neogaia777]

It's you who is being conned not me.

Ok, whatever...

Like the fear you "experience" when you watch a horror movie, do you put that fear down to a supernatural God as well?

I fear (was made to be in fear of for awhile) all kinds of evil and wickedness now, that I used to highly entertained by, (It sickens me now to know I was like that) because my God wanted me out and away from it, so that he could clear my head and teach me about him separate from this wicked, sick, perverse world, that I used to be a part of...

He is now dispelling the fear (that he used to lead me to him) and is now teaching me to "learn from" and he is preparing me to go back into it... However... "now", no longer belonging to it, or from it, or of it, but him instead...

You don't push it away because it gives you comfort, you believe because you want to believe, whether it's true or not doesn't even come into it.

Ahhh... If you think that it gave or brought me or even currently brings me "comfort" all of the time, your very, very mistaken... I experienced fear, and confusion and all sorts of trouble that he brought upon me, that left me with no choice but to believe in and in time, when I stopped denying him and his existence due to what I was experiencing, "go to him" for help....

There may be times, times, that I "doubt", "some" of the Bible even, but not Christ, his existence and all that he did and said, (which makes me unable to doubt the rest of what I might dare to doubt about the Bible), Anyways, I do have some doubts that I wrestle with at times, but there being a "God" and "spirits" and a "spirit realm" here with us...? No... That I cannot deny any longer... Nor can I doubt Christ and his existence and all that he said and did... Which makes me unable to doubt everything else and I working on clearing up my doubts, by discovering and finding new ways (with his help) to accept it all, and know it all, as "truth"... I have no choice any longer... I cannot go back... I'm past the point of no return...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I think you just don't want to believe it; you prefer the wisdom of man. At the first moment of God's creation, it was still very much unformed, as it did not resemble the final product.

When speaking to Nicodemus (John 3), Jesus told him you if you don't accept our (the triune God) testimony about the physical things (such as creation and the flood) how will you accept our testimony about spiritual things? Both the physical and spiritual things the Scriptures teach us are important for us to believe. It's challenging to believe the literal gospel (that Jesus literally died for the forgiveness of sins, was buried, and physically rose from the dead on the third day) if you have no historical foundation for it - that God created everything good (no death, no sin); man rebelled; death/sin came to all mankind as a result of Adam's sin (Romans 5:12) and the curse affected the whole creation (Romans 8:20-22; examples in Genesis such as thorns, suffering, diet changes, childbirth pain, relational problems, etc.); God promised a Savior (Genesis 3:15); the literal shedding of blood is necessary to cover sins (Genesis 3:21, Leviticus 17:11, Hebrews 9:22)...

In comparing the day of His return to the days of the flood, Jesus is describing the sudden death of the wicked at His return just like the rebels died in the flood of Noah's day. Many people will physically die (see Zechariah 14:12-13, Revelation 19:21) when Jesus returns, just as the people caught in the worldwide flood died.

You interpret things "literally"... I ask you "how" did we come to know "how" we came to know "how" to interpret things "literally"... Was it not "made by" man, and is man's wisdom, understanding and knowledge based on what "he" knows and can currently understand, and NOT GOD"S...?

I Believe God's definition of "literal" is different than ours... You use the "literal" that came from man, fallen man, to arrive at "truth" for yourself... I refuse to do that... I Believe "God's "literal" and God's "logical" that will lead to "his truth" is actually "more real" and "more true" than what we currently and perhaps "can know" and understand, that is "man's" and is based upon the things of "fallen man"...

I believe God's truth to be "more"... What I call "spiritual" is just because I do not know what else to call it, but, in the end, I believe it will turn out to be only a "different" "form" of truth, logic, reason, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, "reality" that is "more real" and true and logical and reasonable and yes, "literal", than what we currently know or can understand now, currently...

God Bless!

 

[-57]

How do you know this?

Because He could eat. He could be touched.

 

[-57]

A body that could pass through walls and doors, yes...

Hey Thomas....touch me.

 

[-57]

As the man says, the ancients didn't ask the same questions we do, but fundamentalists try to read back into their minds our ways of thinking.

I would think Paul didn't ask the same questions as the ancients did. Despite that Paul told us that one man started death and sin. Paul also told us Adam was the first man formed before Eve.

John Walton would say...Paul got it wrong.

 

[Neogaia777]

Hey Thomas....touch me.

Yes, it was a "body" of some sort, that was or had some physicality to it at least, in that, it could be touched and felt and had the scars, but I don't think blood, but it was somewhat physical, but could also pass through "normal" matter apparently, like locked doors for example...

God Bless!

 

[lesliedellow]

I would think Paul didn't ask the same questions as the ancients did. Despite that Paul told us that one man started death and sin. Paul also told us Adam was the first man formed before Eve.

John Walton would say...Paul got it wrong.

I do not for one moment suppose that you have even listened to what John Walton has to say.

 

[Neogaia777]

First of all, it's sad to see some people hijack someone's thread. It's very inconsiderate. Neogaia asked for Theistic Evolution supporters to answer her question about what interpretations of Genesis they find work well.

Instead, some creationists jumped in to push their own agenda (which is OK, on threads that ask those questions, but not on threads that don't).

Neogaia, I'm sorry you had to put up with that behavior.

Here are some short answers about how I read Genesis that cover many doctrines of Christianity that you might find useful.

In a theistic evolution view, core Christian doctrines work quite well.

There are many theistic evolution ways to see the core doctrines of Christianity, just as there are many creationist descriptions, depending on the person and denomination. However, these may at least be common, if not exclusive.

The Garden: The Garden of Eden can be a metaphor for the natural world before humans became fully conscious/able to think. It need not have happened as a literal, single location garden, just as Ezekiel's army of bones (37) is a metaphor that never happened as a literal army of zombies.

The Fall:The fall of man can be what happened when man evolved enough mental capacity to make rational decisions, and decided to rebel against God. The consequence was alienation from God. This view is explicitly supported by the Pope, and many other Christian leaders.

Adam: Note that many theistic evolution supporters (including apparently the Pope) believe in a literal, real, single human Adam, the father of us all, who was the first transitional ape-human to cross the line to being human, who sinned and brought about original sin (not the first death). This fits with the above mention of the Fall.

The Flood: The flood can be a metaphor describing God's sovereignty over humans and the earth, and still shows those same messages either way. It need not have happened as a literal flood, just as Ezekiel's army of bones is a metaphor that never happened as a literal army of zombies.

Jesus: Jesus was a real human who was both God and Man. He often spoke in parables (metaphors) while on earth, just as he did when he, as part of the trinity, inspired Genesis. Because Genesis is the word of the same God who spoke parables while on earth as Jesus, it should come as no surprise that he starts off the Bible speaking the parables of the creation, fall and flood.

Atonement: The Atonement of Jesus is the same in either a literalist or a modern Christian's view. Jesus needed to atone for the sin of the fall, which was rebellion against God.

The geneologies in Genesis: These can be figurative, like Ezekiel's army of zombies. They pretty much have to be for a number of reasons; not just the massive evidence of an old earth, but also internal inconsistencies, like growing a handful of people from (coat) Joseph's time to the ~2 million Jews at the Exodus in a short number of years.


I hope all that helps.

Blessings of our Lord Jesus Christ-

Papias

Thank you very much!

As far as "Adam" goes, or the word "Man' in Genesis especially, but other parts of the Bible also, I am looking into the Hebrew and I have found that there were four different words for "Man"

I found this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...OaDlWfdpfcXQR0mhA&sig2=tT7jOG4M9VREoTPywkBZqQ

Basically, I'm trying to find some evidence for the symbolic, spiritual interpretation/meaning of what, not only "man" or "Adam" was before, but I am working on a theory, or playing with the thought that, at some point in Genesis, or perhaps the beginning of Exodus, (that was when Moses appeared on the scene and he wrote Genesis along with the other four books, right) That the reality went, or transitioned from, a spiritual or symbolic interpretation or meaning of perhaps a different kind of reality to a perhaps literal or physical reality, the kind of reality we now know and are familiar with...

This other kind of reality of the idea I am playing with, it could be a reality similar to how/what Jesus resurrected "Body" was like before he ascended, for example... I posted this on that: "Yes, it was a "body" of some sort, that was or had some physicality to it at least, in that, it could be touched and felt and had the scars, but I don't think blood, but it was somewhat physical, but could also pass through "normal" matter apparently, like locked doors for example..."

Did Moses have a divine vision or dream? Where did he get, where did he find, or from what source did he, was he, able to write Genesis from as his source?

Also, I believe Ezekiel's raising the dead army is part of a prophecy yet to come to pass that is a resurrection that will literally happen after the great tribulation period is over and at or just prior to Jesus return... (But, you don't have to believe that... If you don't that's fine...) (Daniel's, Isiah's, Ezekiel's, and John's Revelation, in the book of Revelation, they all share in common that they all got vision's in different form's of the same thing, history from beginning to end) (Revelation 4 times in different form's)...

God Bless!

 

[Inkfingers]

I am working on a theory, or playing with the thought that, at some point in Genesis, or perhaps the beginning of Exodus ......... that the reality went, or transitioned from, a spiritual or symbolic interpretation or meaning of perhaps a different kind of reality to a perhaps literal or physical reality, the kind of reality we now know and are familiar with...

You'll twist into all manner of knots if you take that route because you will be trying to shape reality to match your requirements rather than allowing reality to shape your understanding.

Genesis is mythology. It is figurative. A representation of mankind's tendency to vanity and rebelliousness against God, with that tendency personified in the serpent. Satan isn't literally a snake any more than Jesus is literally wooly and prone to gamboling in fields. When you read Genesis as being about the psychological conflict within man you don't have to twist into contortions of logic (logic being how a God of order gave man a mind of order to understand an orderly universe).

 

[-57]

Yes, it was a "body" of some sort, that was or had some physicality to it at least, in that, it could be touched and felt and had the scars, but I don't think blood, but it was somewhat physical, but could also pass through "normal" matter apparently, like locked doors for example...

God Bless!

Glorified?

 

[-57]

I do not for one moment suppose that you have even listened to what John Walton has to say.

So far I have no reason to watch Walton. I explained that in an earlier post. I also asked you for a minute mark where Walton is making his point and so far you have not provided me with a time.

It would also be proper for you to explain it in your own words.

 

[lesliedellow]

So far I have no reason to watch Walton. I explained that in an earlier post. I also asked you for a minute mark where Walton is making his point and so far you have not provided me with a time.

It would also be proper for you to explain it in your own words.

I have no intention of trying to compress into a couple of sentences something it takes somebody else two hours to say.

 

[-57]

I have no intention of trying to compress into a couple of sentences something it takes somebody else two hours to say.

Well, that's part of my point. If it takes 2 hours to make it make sense....I really can't be bother with it especially when the simple reading of the bible on the subject, well, is so simple.

 

[lesliedellow]

Well, that's part of my point. If it takes 2 hours to make it make sense....I really can't be bother with it especially when the simple reading of the bible on the subject, well, is so simple.

So simple to read it to mean what you want it to mean.

 

[-57]

So simple to read it to mean what you want it to mean.

Through one man...pretty much means just that.

Adam was formed first, then Eve...prettty much means just that. I don't need some 2 hour long video to explain how it isn't what it says.

 

[Neogaia777]

Glorified?

It was a bodily form, different from ours, yet still a kind of flesh, (a glorified "body") that he had, or chose to have and take on, to communicate with us, "before" he ascended to Heaven, to rejoin the Father... When, "after" he ascended, "transformed" from that form into pure spirit again... That is, in the form that he originally had with the Father before the beginning of everything... That intermediate form could be the key to the difference between "heaven" and "paradise"... Paradise being full of creatures with similar forms to that form that Jesus had, or took on, before he ascended to become pure spirit with the Father in heaven (again)... Paradise being a world or realm in-between our realm, and the heavenly realm, both realms being very near and very close and connected somehow to this realm, however... Possibly...?

Also, possibly some of Genesis, could be talking about this paradise realm and it's reality, possibly... The mount of transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus could have been a glimpse into this paradise realm, possibly...? (Because Moses and Elijah had bodies)...

A theory anyhow...

God Bless!

 

[-57]

It was a bodily form, different from ours, yet still a kind of flesh, (a glorified "body") that he had, or chose to have and take on, to communicate with us, "before" he ascended to Heaven, to rejoin the Father... When, "after" he ascended, "transformed" from that form into pure spirit again... That is, in the form that he originally had with the Father before the beginning of everything... That intermediate form could be the key to the difference between "heaven" and "paradise"... Paradise being full of creatures with similar forms to that form that Jesus had, or took on, before he ascended to become pure spirit with the Father in heaven (again)... Paradise being a world or realm in-between our realm, and the heavenly realm, both realms being very near and very close and connected somehow to this realm, however... Possibly...?

Also, possibly some of Genesis, could be talking about this paradise realm and it's reality, possibly... The mount of transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus could have been a glimpse into this paradise realm, possibly...? (Because Moses and Elijah had bodies)...

A theory anyhow...

God Bless!

I don't think we can really know what the body was completely. What we do know is that the resurrected body will have some physical characteristics.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't think we can really know what the body was completely. What we do know is that the resurrected body will have some physical characteristics.

Agreed...

God Bless!

 

[-57]

Agreed...

God Bless!

Prior to the fall, do you think Adam and Eve had a similiar body? I'm open to that possibility...but can't biblically supprt it.