VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

[Jeffrey Bowden]

On earth.
It is never said the 144k go to heaven, you make that up,

I have already proved to you that Revelation 7:15-17 is a prophecy about Eternity, THEN: God will wipe away every tear. Revelation 21:4

There is no Biblical support for a rapture to heaven, it is a false teaching and just because millions have fallen for it, that does not give it any credibility.

Tell me, who are “they” in Rev 7:15?

Where’s the throne of God in Rev 14::3?

 

[keras]

Tell me, who are “they” in Rev 7:15?

:they' are all the people whose names were found in the Book of Life and have received immortality. After the final Judgment.

Where’s the throne of God in Rev 14::3?

On earth, the same as Gods Throne was seen by Ezekiel 1:1 and Stephen; Acts 7:36
Rev 14:2 proves it, as the 144k on earth; hear the sound of the harpists from heaven.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

:they' are all the people whose names were found in the Book of Life and have received immortality. After the final Judgment.

On earth, the same as Gods Throne was seen by Ezekiel 1:1 and Stephen; Acts 7:36
Rev 14:2 proves it, as the 144k on earth; hear the sound of the harpists from heaven.

Rev 3:10 is about our being raptured pre-Trib and those left behind will be subjected to "the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth." There are two groups in that verse distinguished by "you" and "those." We are "you" and "those" are the ones left behind, known as "those who dwell on the earth."

Rev 6:10 proves only unbelievers are on Earth (along with the 144k in Rev 7). The 2W arrive on the scene later in Rev 11:3. Rev 6:10 is about the 5th seal, proving believers never enter the Trib.

Rev 9:4 also proves only unbelievers are on Earth (along with the 144k in Rev 7). The 2W arrive on the scene later in Rev 11:3. You see? Those two verses are PROOF that only unbelievers enter the Trib. You can't show me one verse where believers enter the Trib. There are conversions in the Trib, but those folks will enter the Trib as unbelievers. Those converted are the GM, representing the greatest revival in the Trib.

You never mention the Judgment Seat of Christ: 2 Cor 5:10 (ESV): For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. ----- That is the final judgement of believers. We therefore do not participate in the GWTJ. The GWTJ is for those who died in sin, throughout history. They include those who are killed by fire from Heaven after they attack the camp of the saints in Rev 20:8-9.

The GM is comprised of two groups (Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4). They are resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They appear in Heaven in Rev 7:14-15 (ESV): I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

The GM "are before the throne of God" and they "serve him day and night IN His temple."

In this context, "before" means "in front of."

It all aligns that no believers enter the Trib. Acts 1:9-11 guarantee that Jesus' next return will only be for the pre-Trib rapture.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

:they' are all the people whose names were found in the Book of Life and have received immortality. After the final Judgment.

On earth, the same as Gods Throne was seen by Ezekiel 1:1 and Stephen; Acts 7:36
Rev 14:2 proves it, as the 144k on earth; hear the sound of the harpists from heaven.

Ezekiel 1:1 is about a vision of God's throne from Earth. The GM are "before the throne of God." The GM are in Heaven.

 

[keras]

Rev 3:10 is about our being raptured pre-Trib

Rev 3:10 does not say that at all.

Rev 6:10 proves only unbelievers are on Earth

No it doesn't. Everyone will experience the Day of the Lords Firey wrath. Luke 21:35

Rev 9:4 also proves only unbelievers are on Earth

All of Gods people are on earth during the end times events. Rev 13:7, Daniel 7:25

You never mention the Judgment Seat of Christ: 2 Cor 5:10 (ESV):

I have mentioned it many times. The Judgment of every individual will take place after the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15
Jesus will judge the nations after His Return. Matthew 25:31-33

The GM is comprised of two groups (Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4).

Nonsense.
The martyrs of Rev 6 'sleep' in their graves until after the thousand years are passed. Rev 20:5
The martyrs of the Great tribulation, will be resurrected by Jesus at His Return.

The Great Multitude will be every living Christian person, gathered into the holy Land.

Acts 1:9-11 guarantee that Jesus' next return will only be for the pre-Trib rapture.

There is nothing like that sort of guarantee in that verse. You have falsely dreamed it up.

Ezekiel 1:1 is about a vision of God's throne from Earth. The GM are "before the throne of God." The GM are in Heaven.

You really have no conception of Spiritual things.
I suppose that is why you fondly imagine you could live in heaven. You surely won't get there by adding to scripture and promoting false teachings.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Rev 3:10 does not say that at all.

No it doesn't. Everyone will experience the Day of the Lords Firey wrath. Luke 21:35

All of Gods people are on earth during the end times events. Rev 13:7, Daniel 7:25

I have mentioned it many times. The Judgment of every individual will take place after the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15
Jesus will judge the nations after His Return. Matthew 25:31-33

Nonsense.
The martyrs of Rev 6 'sleep' in their graves until after the thousand years are passed. Rev 20:5
The martyrs of the Great tribulation, will be resurrected by Jesus at His Return.

The Great Multitude will be every living Christian person, gathered into the holy Land.

There is nothing like that sort of guarantee in that verse. You have falsely dreamed it up.

You really have no conception of Spiritual things.
I suppose that is why you fondly imagine you could live in heaven. You surely won't get there by adding to scripture and promoting false teachings.

You said: The martyrs of Rev 6 'sleep' in their graves until after the thousand years are passed. Rev 20:5
The martyrs of the Great tribulation, will be resurrected by Jesus at His Return.

The Great Multitude will be every living Christian person, gathered into the holy Land.


All of the GM are martyrs, and they come from two groups. You are not recognizing the common traits of the two groups and what Jesus says about the actual need for two groups.

The first group is in Rev 6:9-11 (ESV): When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete

The second group is in Rev 20:4 (ESV): Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Both groups are killed for the same reason: for the word of God and for the witness they had borne (Rev 6:10) / for the testimony of the Jesus and for the word of God (Rev 20:4). In Rev 6:11 reveals the need for the second group. The need for the second group stems from the first group being "told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been." That second group will be killed as the first group was killed in Rev 6:9-11. That second group will "complete the number" required for the GM. That second group is found in Rev 20:4.


You said: Rev 3:10 does not say that at all.

Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

There are two groups cited in the verse above. We are "you" and "those" are unbelievers. Jesus says, "I will keep YOU from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try THOSE who dwell on the earth."

The next verse proves that "those who dwell on the the earth" are unbelievers: Rev 6:10 (ESV): They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” V10 also only cites new converts and "those who dwell on the earth." Only unbelievers enter the Trib. In Rev 3:10, it is only "those who dwell on the earth" who will enter the Trib. Jesus promised to "keep YOU (that's all believers as of the pre-Trib rapture) from the hour of trial." We will not enter the Trib, The folks crying out in Rev 6:10 are new converts in the Trib. They are martyred and they become part of the GM.

To be kept "from the hour of trial" means we are removed from Earth before the Trib. 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52 are then immediately fulfilled. Upon "the last trump" (cited in 1 Cor 15:52 and sounded in 1 Th 4:16), "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. V17 proves we are raptured into heavenly clouds to meet Jesus in the air. Acts 1:9-11 forbid Jesus to be seen by any unbelievers in all this. We are hidden from the world below, as we are with Jesus. This is when John 14:3 goes into effect: ... I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. ----- We have our glorified bodies; we are raptured to Heaven.

You said: Everyone will experience the Day of the Lords Firey wrath. Luke 21:35

Luke 21: 34-35 (ESV): “But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

In v34, Luke was stating a warning not to let our "hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life." If we do, the Trib will "come upon you suddenly like a trap. V35: For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth."

Luke was warning believers not to fall into the trap of being weighed down with the cares of this world, lest we fall into the trap of being an unbeliever, which Luke describes as those who "dwell on the face of the whole earth."

The next return of Jesus is governed by Acts 1:9-11. Only 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52 align with the dictates in v9-11. 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52 are only about the pre-Trib rapture. Jesus' next return will therefore be to descend into the view of believers, only, and fulfill the pre-Trib rapture. All the greatness and glory of the rapture will happen, as evidenced in 1 Th 4:16-17, 1 Cor 15:52, John 14:3 and Rev 3:10.



You said: All of Gods people are on earth during the end times events. Rev 13:7, Daniel 7:25.

Rev 13:7 is exclusively about the martyring of the second group of the GM.

 

[keras]

All of the GM are martyrs, and they come from two groups

You have made this up,
There are two groups of Christian martyrs; All those from Stephen to today and still being added to now. But those Christians who will be killed during the 3 1/2 year reign of the 'beast', are special, I think because it will be especially hard to stand firm in the faith at that time.

Revelation 20:4-6 is perfectly clear on what will happen and any changes made by you are directly against Bible truth.

I view the lengthy posts by you, as failed attempts to hide the fact that you have no case for a rapture to heaven.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You have made this up,
There are two groups of Christian martyrs; All those from Stephen to today and still being added to now. But those Christians who will be killed during the 3 1/2 year reign of the 'beast', are special, I think because it will be especially hard to stand firm in the faith at that time.

Revelation 20:4-6 is perfectly clear on what will happen and any changes made by you are directly against Bible truth.

I view the lengthy posts by you, as failed attempts to hide the fact that you have no case for a rapture to heaven.

You are missing the stipulations Jesus made in Rev 6:11 for a second group. The first group of the GM is in v11, and the second group is in Rev 20:4.

Stephen and others do not apply to the Trib. They are the dead in Christ who will be raised and raptured in 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52.

Acts 1:9-11 are fulfilled exclusively by 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52. The pre-Trib rapture will occur as the next prophecy.

 

[keras]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is a word from the Lord; those of His people who are still alive when the Lord comes, will have no advantage over those who have died. ...when Gods trumpet sounds and Jesus descends from heaven, firstly the Christian dead will rise, then we who are still alive will join them. Thus, we shall always be with the Lord. [on the earth]

Zechariah 14:4-5 On that Day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.....the Lord will appear, attended by all His holy ones.
His holy ones: The angel armies of heaven; Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14
Scripture reads clearly – the so called rapture is actually just a gathering, which will occur when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation.
The doctrine that His “church” people are simply waiting to be whisked away into heaven tends to produce a carefree and careless attitude in those awaiting Christ’s Return. Tragically, millions are now being set up to ‘simply believe in Jesus and don’t worry about anything else”. This is short-sighted, irresponsible thinking.
Many verses show that Christianity involves active effort, at the very least “watch and pray always”.

Many of the Bible’s greatest prophecies culminate in the Return of Jesus. This will be the most wonderful event that the world has seen, but what precedes it will be very different – terrible disasters and tribulations will engulf every society. It will take great trust and faith in Gods power to hold steady until the end.
Luke 18:8 When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

God wants you to rely on Him, to trust Him completely. In the near future , when others are gripped by fear, uncertainty and confusion and have no idea of where to turn to for answers, God does not want His people to agonise over what may happen next.

Luke 21:18-19 Not a hair of your head will be lost. By standing firm you will win yourselves life.
Revelation 13:10 ..... this calls for the endurance and faithfulness of Gods people.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear.... the son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. He shall send His angels with the sound of the great trumpet, and they shall gather His faithful people from heaven, [the souls of the martyrs] and the four corners of the earth. [every person who kept their trust in God]

Daniel 7:27 The kingly power and sovereignty of all the kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their power will last forever and every realm will serve and obey them.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is a word from the Lord; those of His people who are still alive when the Lord comes, will have no advantage over those who have died. ...when Gods trumpet sounds and Jesus descends from heaven, firstly the Christian dead will rise, then we who are still alive will join them. Thus, we shall always be with the Lord. [on the earth]

Zechariah 14:4-5 On that Day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.....the Lord will appear, attended by all His holy ones.
His holy ones: The angel armies of heaven; Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14
Scripture reads clearly – the so called rapture is actually just a gathering, which will occur when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation.
The doctrine that His “church” people are simply waiting to be whisked away into heaven tends to produce a carefree and careless attitude in those awaiting Christ’s Return. Tragically, millions are now being set up to ‘simply believe in Jesus and don’t worry about anything else”. This is short-sighted, irresponsible thinking.
Many verses show that Christianity involves active effort, at the very least “watch and pray always”.

Many of the Bible’s greatest prophecies culminate in the Return of Jesus. This will be the most wonderful event that the world has seen, but what precedes it will be very different – terrible disasters and tribulations will engulf every society. It will take great trust and faith in Gods power to hold steady until the end.
Luke 18:8 When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

God wants you to rely on Him, to trust Him completely. In the near future , when others are gripped by fear, uncertainty and confusion and have no idea of where to turn to for answers, God does not want His people to agonise over what may happen next.

Luke 21:18-19 Not a hair of your head will be lost. By standing firm you will win yourselves life.
Revelation 13:10 ..... this calls for the endurance and faithfulness of Gods people.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear.... the son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. He shall send His angels with the sound of the great trumpet, and they shall gather His faithful people from heaven, [the souls of the martyrs] and the four corners of the earth. [every person who kept their trust in God]

Daniel 7:27 The kingly power and sovereignty of all the kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their power will last forever and every realm will serve and obey them.

You’re omitting a very important fact from Acts 1:11. Jesus must next return in the same way He ascended. That way was established by His ascending in the view of believers, only. He was hidden by heavenly clouds, then He went into Heaven.

His descension must end into the view of believers, only. He must be hidden by heavenly clouds from the unbelieving world below. All of those details are only achievable through 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52. You cannot achieve those details in the Trib or 2A. Those details are only achievable pre-Trib.

Therefore, the pre-Trib rapture is the sole purpose in the next return of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You’re omitting a very important fact from Acts 1:11. Jesus must next return in the same way He ascended. That way was established by His ascending in the view of believers, only. He was hidden by heavenly clouds, then He went into Heaven.

His descension must end into the view of believers, only. He must be hidden by heavenly clouds from the unbelieving world below. All of those details are only achievable through 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52. You cannot achieve those details in the Trib or 2A. Those details are only achievable pre-Trib.

Therefore, the pre-Trib rapture is the sole purpose in the next return of Jesus Christ.

You’re wrong about 1 Th 4:17. Jesus never touches the ground. You are the one adding to Scripture.

Acts 1:11 forbids Jesus from being seen by any unbelievers in His next return. You can’t accomplish that by adding that he touches the ground. In 1 Th 4:17, Jesus is “in the air.” Where we go from there is answered by John 14:3 (ESV): And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

“that where I am” is in reference to Heaven. Where is Jesus now?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is a word from the Lord; those of His people who are still alive when the Lord comes, will have no advantage over those who have died. ...when Gods trumpet sounds and Jesus descends from heaven, firstly the Christian dead will rise, then we who are still alive will join them. Thus, we shall always be with the Lord. [on the earth]

Zechariah 14:4-5 On that Day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.....the Lord will appear, attended by all His holy ones.
His holy ones: The angel armies of heaven; Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14
Scripture reads clearly – the so called rapture is actually just a gathering, which will occur when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation.
The doctrine that His “church” people are simply waiting to be whisked away into heaven tends to produce a carefree and careless attitude in those awaiting Christ’s Return. Tragically, millions are now being set up to ‘simply believe in Jesus and don’t worry about anything else”. This is short-sighted, irresponsible thinking.
Many verses show that Christianity involves active effort, at the very least “watch and pray always”.

Many of the Bible’s greatest prophecies culminate in the Return of Jesus. This will be the most wonderful event that the world has seen, but what precedes it will be very different – terrible disasters and tribulations will engulf every society. It will take great trust and faith in Gods power to hold steady until the end.
Luke 18:8 When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

God wants you to rely on Him, to trust Him completely. In the near future , when others are gripped by fear, uncertainty and confusion and have no idea of where to turn to for answers, God does not want His people to agonise over what may happen next.

Luke 21:18-19 Not a hair of your head will be lost. By standing firm you will win yourselves life.
Revelation 13:10 ..... this calls for the endurance and faithfulness of Gods people.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear.... the son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. He shall send His angels with the sound of the great trumpet, and they shall gather His faithful people from heaven, [the souls of the martyrs] and the four corners of the earth. [every person who kept their trust in God]

Daniel 7:27 The kingly power and sovereignty of all the kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their power will last forever and every realm will serve and obey them.

Matt 24:31 says “the elect” are gathered. In this context, they are the Jews who are scattered all over the world, having escaped persecution in Israel. This persecution has been going on for several centuries, and so has the scattering.

Now, please don’t respond with other verses that mention the elect and they appear to be inclusive of all believers. The elect can mean that, but Matt 24:31 is about the time for the 2A. Matt 24:22 also mentions the elect in the Trib. That verse is also little understood, and I don’t claim to understand it.

Zachariah 13:8 is associated with how many Israelites will be saved and how many will not be saved: 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Bottom line: much is not known about the elect, but Matt 24:31 is a gathering of Jews.

 

[keras]

You’re omitting a very important fact from Acts 1:11. Jesus must next return in the same way He ascended.

Jesus will Return in 'like manner', and it is never said He will return twice.
We do have a good picture of the Return in Revelation 19:11-16.

The idea that He will come to take the Church to heaven, is a fable and is never Prophesied to happen in the Bible.

You’re wrong about 1 Th 4:17. Jesus never touches the ground. You are the one adding to Scripture.

Zechariah 14:4 On that Day, His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives........
Jesus Returns to the exact same place as He Ascended from. Acts 1:11 fulfilled.

“that where I am” is in reference to Heaven. Where is Jesus now?

I have to wonder about your comprehension ability.
John 14:3 is plainly a reference to the new Jerusalem, to come here after the Millennium.

Bottom line: much is not known about the elect, but Matt 24:31 is a gathering of Jews.

You show your almost total lack of knowledge of what the Prophesies say about the Jews. They face punishment and only a remnant will survive.
Matthew 24:31 says His chosen people will be gathered, Who are the Chosen people since Jesus came? 1 Peter 2:9-10 makes that clear.

Of course; this truth of the Jewish demise, Isaiah 22:14, wrecks to 'rapture to heaven' theory, as they must have the Jews on earth, while they twiddle their thumbs in heaven. Tough!

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jesus will Return in 'like manner', and it is never said He will return twice.
We do have a good picture of the Return in Revelation 19:11-16.

The idea that He will come to take the Church to heaven, is a fable and is never Prophesied to happen in the Bible.

Zechariah 14:4 On that Day, His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives........
Jesus Returns to the exact same place as He Ascended from. Acts 1:11 fulfilled.

I have to wonder about your comprehension ability.
John 14:3 is plainly a reference to the new Jerusalem, to come here after the Millennium.

You show your almost total lack of knowledge of what the Prophesies say about the Jews. They face punishment and only a remnant will survive.
Matthew 24:31 says His chosen people will be gathered, Who are the Chosen people since Jesus came? 1 Peter 2:9-10 makes that clear.

Of course; this truth of the Jewish demise, Isaiah 22:14, wrecks to 'rapture to heaven' theory, as they must have the Jews on earth, while they twiddle their thumbs in heaven. Tough!

Jesus has returned many times (He walked in the Garden of Eden; He wrestled with Jacob; He transfigured in front of three disciples — newly appearing to them with two others; He appeared to Mary Magdalene at the tomb; He appeared to hundreds more in town, including all 12 of His disciples; and He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus.

Jesus returns at-will, and His returns can be private. There’s no limitation on His returns in the Bible. The Second Advent is about His second return to prove He is the Messiah, the Lord of lords and the King of kings.

Acts 1:9-11 are not about location or the 2A (Rev 19:11-16) or any prophecy after the 2A. Acts 1:9-11 are about “the way”in which Jesus will next return. Acts 1:9-11 prove that Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only. He therefore must next return into the view of believers, only.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor 15:52) at the sound of “the last trump” (1 Th 4:16), we are changed into our glorified bodies, and we are gathered to Him, in the air (1 Th 4:17).

Matt 24:31 does not “gather to Him.” Matt 24:31 will also occur in the view of unbelievers. Jesus’ next return is into the view of believers, only.

In Acts 1:9, Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only. He therefore must next descend into the view of believers, only. 1 Th 4-16-17 are the only verses that align with the prophecy in Acts 1:11, and they occur pre-Trib.

The verse below (Rev 6:10) proves that “those who dwell on the earth” is a phrase that means “unbelievers” who are left behind after the pre-Trib rapture.

Rev 6:10 (ESV): They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

The verse below proves that as of its point on the timeline, the only folks on Earth are the 144k and “those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.”

Rev 9:4 (ESV): They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Those two verses prove that believers do not enter the Trib.

 

[keras]

Those two verses prove that believers do not enter the Trib.

They just refer to the dead martyrs and the144k, I am sure there are more believers than that alive now.

The verse which proves Christians will be here during the GT; the final 3 1/2 years of this age, is Revelation 12:17

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor 15:52) at the sound of “the last trump” (1 Th 4:16), we are changed into our glorified bodies,

This does not happen when Jesus Returns.
The Last trumpet call is for every person who has ever lived to rise and stand before God in Judgment. AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jesus has returned many times (He walked in the Garden of Eden; He wrestled with Jacob; He transfigured in front of three disciples — newly appearing to them with two others; He appeared to Mary Magdalene at the tomb; He appeared to hundreds more in town, including all 12 of His disciples; and He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus.

Jesus returns at-will, and His returns can be private. There’s no limitation on His returns in the Bible. The Second Advent is about His second return to prove He is the Messiah, the Lord of lords and the King of kings.

Acts 1:9-11 are not about location or the 2A (Rev 19:11-16) or any prophecy after the 2A. Acts 1:9-11 are about “the way”in which Jesus will next return. Acts 1:9-11 prove that Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only. He therefore must next return into the view of believers, only.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor 15:52) at the sound of “the last trump” (1 Th 4:16), we are changed into our glorified bodies, and we are gathered to Him, in the air (1 Th 4:17).

Matt 24:31 does not “gather to Him.” Matt 24:31 will also occur in the view of unbelievers. Jesus’ next return is into the view of believers, only.

In Acts 1:9, Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only. He therefore must next descend into the view of believers, only. 1 Th 4-16-17 are the only verses that align with the prophecy in Acts 1:11, and they occur pre-Trib.

The verse below (Rev 6:10) proves that “those who dwell on the earth” is a phrase that means “unbelievers” who are left behind after the pre-Trib rapture.

Rev 6:10 (ESV): They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

The verse below proves that as of its point on the timeline, the only folks on Earth are the 144k and “those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.”

Rev 9:4 (ESV): They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Those two verses prove that believers do not enter the Trib.

All who enter the Trib are “those who dwell upon the earth.” Therefore, all who enter the Trib are unbelievers. There is a tremendous revival in the Trib started by God through the 144k. The dead martyrs in Rev 6:10 are the first group of the GM. They entered the Trib as unbelievers, they came to Christ and were then martyred. They are now crying out for vengeance against “those who dwell upon the earth — the folks who currently refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. No believers enter the Trib.

They just refer to the dead martyrs and the144k, I am sure there are more believers than that alive now.

The verse which proves Christians will be here during the GT; the final 3 1/2 years of this age, is Revelation 12:17

This does not happen when Jesus Returns.
The Last trumpet call is for every person who has ever lived to rise and stand before God in Judgment. AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15

Romans 8:1 is assurance that all Christians prior to the Trib are not subjected to any form of condemnation.

Romans 8:1 (ESV): There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

To be left behind at the pre-Trib rapture is a condemning action, but one with recourse. Martyrdom is that recourse.

Any Christians in the Trib are unbelievers who enter the Trib and become converted. The 144k are God’s army of evangelical ministers who preach the Gospel to the unbelievers in the Trib. A multitude is saved, martyred (Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4), resurrected (Rev 20:4), and raptured to Heaven (Rev 7:9-17).

Rev 9:4 is proof that only the 144k and unbelievers are on Earth at the timeline point for that verse. See below:

Rev 9:4 (ESV): They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Rev 6:10 is about new converts who are martyred and who prove by their cry, that only unbelievers are alive on Earth. See below:

Rev 6:10 (ESV): They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

Rev 6:10 is part of the 5th seal proving that no believers enter the Trib.

In the next return of Jesus Christ, all believers are raptured pre-Trib, all in strict accordance with Acts 1:9-11, 1 Th 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52.

 

[Oseas]

And now JESUS WILL RETURN AGAIN HERE IN THE SAME PLACE from where He ascended to the third heavenly environment and a cloud RECEIVED Him: Acts 1:10-11)-->10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.
yes, He will again return now in like manner to the same place from where He ascended, and He will reign and lead us in new celestial environment (Ephesians 1:3) by His power, for a period of 1.000 years, the SAME cloud also will appear again, understand?) , as it is revealed in Philippians 3:20-21: -->20 For our conversation is in heaven (heaven: Ephesians 1:3. Take a look.)-; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself. By the way, He made it very clear when He said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth-Matthew 28:18.

Get ready, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him-Matthew 25:6 - .

Get ready

Lets pray

Unfortunately , there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows: 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

They just refer to the dead martyrs and the144k, I am sure there are more believers than that alive now.

The verse which proves Christians will be here during the GT; the final 3 1/2 years of this age, is Revelation 12:17

This does not happen when Jesus Returns.
The Last trumpet call is for every person who has ever lived to rise and stand before God in Judgment. AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15

You can’t prove any believers go to the GWTJ. The final judgment of believers is the Judgment Seat of Christ, which is strongly implied to occur on the day of the rapture, in 2 Tim 4:8. The rapture occurs pre-Trib. Therefore, the Judgment Seat of Christ has nothing to do with the GWTJ. Only those who have died in sin, go to the GWTJ.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

They just refer to the dead martyrs and the144k, I am sure there are more believers than that alive now.

The verse which proves Christians will be here during the GT; the final 3 1/2 years of this age, is Revelation 12:17

This does not happen when Jesus Returns.
The Last trumpet call is for every person who has ever lived to rise and stand before God in Judgment. AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15

Rev 4:1 (ESV): 4 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

We are pre-Trib raptured to Heaven where we are shown the Trib from the opening of seal #1, onward.

 

[Oseas]

Matthew 25:31-34 and 41-:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom-Revelation 11:15-18- prepared for you from the foundation of the world:-->Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers:
...
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.